Change Metamagics regarding New SP Costs.

[Unreliable]

I suggest they change metamagics back to the old system where maximize costs +100% base sp cost, empower +50%. With new spells such as lightning bolt costing only 12 SP there is no reason that maximize should cost 25 SP to double the damage, and empower 15.

Current Metamagics for Lightning Bolt (Max, Emp) = 12 SP Base + 25 Maximize + 15 Empower = 52 SP Cost Lightning Bolt (+150% Damage, +333% SP Cost)

New Metamagics for Lightning Bold (Max, Emp) = 12 SP base + 12 Mazimize + 6 Empower = 30 SP Cost (+150% Damage, +150% SP Cost)

+150% SP Cost for +150% extra damage makes sense then + 333% SP cost for +150% Damage (absurd).

Please change it back so that metamagic additional SP Costs work for the additional damage being given.

If this has already been suggested recently, I appologize for posting it Again.
Thanks.

[pie2655]

/signed

[Dr.Strangeturd]

/Signed

I love scorching ray but that would cost a ton maximized for a 6 sp spell.

[AndyD47]

/signed

[Zirun]

With new spells such as lightning bolt costing only 12 SP there is no reason that maximize should cost 25 SP to double the damage, and empower 15.

I disagree. With arcane casters being much better nukers now do to reduced SP cost, there is a viable choice between keeping metamagics off (higher damage per SP) and turning them on (higher damage per second). There's a competition between two relatively finite resources (time and SP). That's good.

As it is now, there's basically no reason to turn off metamagics unless whatever spell(s) you are casting absolutely don't need them (like Extend on a lot of CC spells). Empower and Maximize increase both your damage per SP and damage per second for a lot of spells, so there's no choice there. You just keep them both on all the time unless you are massively overkilling whatever you're fighting.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be looked at -- they certainly should be. But simply bringing them in line with how they are now will continue making them basically a false choice when it comes to feat selection. I'm all for using them to increase damage per second, as long as they don't increase damage per SP as well. Using your example, 15 SP Maximize and 8 SP Empower for Lightning Bolt would be fine by me, since that will allow casters to have a "Let's conserve resources" mode and a "Let's kill this as fast as possible" mode instead of a "Why do they even let me turn these?" mode.

So... /three-quarters-signed

[Unreliable]

I disagree. With arcane casters being much better nukers now do to reduced SP cost, there is a viable choice between keeping metamagics off (higher damage per SP) and turning them on (higher damage per second). There's a competition between two relatively finite resources (time and SP). That's good.

As it is now, there's basically no reason to turn off metamagics unless whatever spell(s) you are casting absolutely don't need them (like Extend on a lot of CC spells). Empower and Maximize increase both your damage per SP and damage per second for a lot of spells, so there's no choice there. You just keep them both on all the time unless you are massively overkilling whatever you're fighting.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be looked at -- they certainly should be. But simply bringing them in line with how they are now will continue making them basically a false choice when it comes to feat selection. I'm all for using them to increase damage per second, as long as they don't increase damage per SP as well. Using your example, 15 SP Maximize and 8 SP Empower for Lightning Bolt would be fine by me, since that will allow casters to have a "Let's conserve resources" mode and a "Let's kill this as fast as possible" mode instead of a "Why do they even let me turn these?" mode.

So... /three-quarters-signed

Interesting opinion.

I think that this would be viable, but having +333% Sp cost for +150% damage is not ok, even with the idea of having more power in less time for the cost of using more of your resources (SP). Possibly +200% SP Cost for +150% damage would be ok, but 333% just seems way to much for the trade off.

[waterboytkd]

I disagree. With arcane casters being much better nukers now do to reduced SP cost, there is a viable choice between keeping metamagics off (higher damage per SP) and turning them on (higher damage per second). There's a competition between two relatively finite resources (time and SP). That's good.

As it is now, there's basically no reason to turn off metamagics unless whatever spell(s) you are casting absolutely don't need them (like Extend on a lot of CC spells). Empower and Maximize increase both your damage per SP and damage per second for a lot of spells, so there's no choice there. You just keep them both on all the time unless you are massively overkilling whatever you're fighting.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be looked at -- they certainly should be. But simply bringing them in line with how they are now will continue making them basically a false choice when it comes to feat selection. I'm all for using them to increase damage per second, as long as they don't increase damage per SP as well. Using your example, 15 SP Maximize and 8 SP Empower for Lightning Bolt would be fine by me, since that will allow casters to have a "Let's conserve resources" mode and a "Let's kill this as fast as possible" mode instead of a "Why do they even let me turn these?" mode.

So... /three-quarters-signed

Hmmm. Plus, since there's going to be variable base SP costs within spell levels, there could be spells that it's always the correct move to turn on empower and maximize. So, maybe something like +150% SP for max, and +75% SP for empower, so +225% for both. Or some variation on the numbers. But yeah, sac SP for DPS, or decrease DPS for SP efficiency. I like that idea.

[Ashbinder]

/not signed

Wall of Fire: 35 sp new cost

Maximized/Empowered: 87 sp

That is all.

[nucphyschem]

/signed

[Zachski]

/not signed.

Reduce the costs, certainly. But you should be sacrificing efficiency for DPS. That's how the metamagics are supposed to work.

Not to mention that it would actually unbalance the game in making expensive spells even LESS efficient, as the user two posts above me noted.

[Unreliable]

/not signed

Wall of Fire: 35 sp new cost

Maximized/Empowered: 87 sp

That is all.

how about you look at the spells that had their cost decreased and not increased before making your decision...

Lightning Bolt: 12 sp new cost

Maximized/Empowered: 52 sp

[Zachski]

how about you look at the spells that had their cost decreased and not increased before making your decision...

Lightning Bolt: 12 sp new cost

Maximized/Empowered: 52 sp

How about you look at the spells that had their cost increased and not decreased before making your decision?

[Unreliable]

Only one I saw in the list that had its cost increased was Firewall.

I will check again though.