Bring back glancing blows on moving attacks

[Shade]

There was no reason for this nerf in the first place.

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change. Since attacks while moving won't be worth using at all.

Stationary combat is boring. If I was into that I'd go play WoW. Return the glancing blow.

Edit:
Put it on GTHF to make the feat more worthwhile if you feel its too powerful as a free deal.

[Asketes]

I'm on board for this..

I don't take the feats on my toons b/c it's mostly impossible for me to be stationary. It's not in my nature.

I will admit that having 3 extra feats on my melee toons is nice though

[LookingForABentoBox]

What was Turbine's stated reason for the change?

[sloejack]

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change.

What helpless change? Where can I read about the changes coming with u9? Hopefully it's not a totally dumb question but I didn't see any proposed release notes so I'm feeling a little lost. Thanks in advance for the point in the right direction.

[dkyle]

What was Turbine's stated reason for the change?

None was given, but I think it was focused towards reducing the efficacy of "shuffle in place" twitch THF.

That goal I fully support, but not their method. They should've fixed it by fixing the attack animations so that swapping between them no longer increases attack speed. Not by eliminating the whole point of several Feats and Enhancements.

THF should be like TWF: moving reduce DPS a bit, but doesn't fundamentally change how it works.

So, /signed, as long as "shuffle in place" twitch is killed in some other way.

What helpless change? Where can I read about the changes coming with u9? Hopefully it's not a totally dumb question but I didn't see any proposed release notes so I'm feeling a little lost. Thanks in advance for the point in the right direction.

Keep an eye on the Dev Tracker: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...06#post3658006

[Cam_Neely]

What was Turbine's stated reason for the change?

I think it was because twitching with GB created superior dmg, and Turbine considered it a glitch and did not like that. As opposed to fixing the problem and making Twitching not supply a higher attack rate, the removed GB.

[jkm]

None was given, but I think it was focused towards reducing the efficacy of "shuffle in place" twitch THF.

That goal I fully support, but not their method. They should've fixed it by fixing the attack animations so that swapping between them no longer increases attack speed. Not by eliminating the whole point of several Feats and Enhancements.

THF should be like TWF: moving reduce DPS a bit, but doesn't fundamentally change how it works.

So, /signed, as long as "shuffle in place" twitch is killed in some other way.




Keep an eye on the Dev Tracker: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...06#post3658006

you mean like if it worked with spring attack so that there was a purpose for the feats?

[dkyle]

you mean like if it worked with spring attack so that there was a purpose for the feats?

Spring Attack could certainly use some help. Perhaps by making the moving animation exactly the same speed as the standing animation.

But "shuffle in place" twitch for higher attack speed than either standing or moving is just lame. Making it a hidden benefit of a feat would be a bad idea.

Moving should at most be the same DPS as standing still. Absolutely not more. Without a major expenditure like Spring Attack, it should do somewhat less.

[Samadhi]

There was no reason for this nerf in the first place.

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change. Since attacks while moving won't be worth using at all.

Stationary combat is boring. If I was into that I'd go play WoW. Return the glancing blow.

/signed on this since implementation. There has never been a more pointless and damaging nerf to making melees fun to play.

[jkm]

Spring Attack could certainly use some help. Perhaps by making the moving animation exactly the same speed as the standing animation.

But "shuffle in place" twitch for higher attack speed than either standing or moving is just lame. Making it a hidden benefit of a feat would be a bad idea.

Moving should at most be the same DPS as standing still. Absolutely not more. Without a major expenditure like Spring Attack, it should do somewhat less.

honestly, i'd be okay with some hidden moving alacrity bonuses in expensive useless feat chains like whirlwind attack.

[dkyle]

honestly, i'd be okay with some hidden moving alacrity bonuses in expensive useless feat chains like whirlwind attack.

A hidden "moving" alacrity bonus, or a hidden "shuffle around in place instead of standing still" alacrity bonus?

What I proposed was a non-hidden "moving" alacrity bonus, to make the currently slower moving attack speed the same as stationary attack speed. But having the moving attack speed be higher than stationary attack speed would be just plain silly.

[Missing_Minds]

Spring Attack could certainly use some help.

Spring attack is fine. It is the pre req of Mobility that needs help. It had use in PnP, but zero here.

[dkyle]

Spring attack is fine. It is the pre req of Mobility that needs help. It had use in PnP, but zero here.

I wouldn't call somewhat less completely worthless than Mobility "fine". Dodge is also an iffy feat.

[Shade]

I think it was because twitching with GB created superior dmg, and Turbine considered it a glitch and did not like that. As opposed to fixing the problem and making Twitching not supply a higher attack rate, the removed GB.

Very unlikely.

As for most players - thats beyond there abilities. Turbine generally doesn't care much about what the top 5% of players do.

And also, for most classes - twitch attack remains higher dps then stationary. Pretty much every class except barbarian.

I think they were just in the nerf bat mood. They tossed it in the huge TWF nerf thread as like a hidden note, no one really noticed. And no discussion was ever made about it, because the crys of the TWF crowd were far too loud to hear anything from the THF players - most of which never saw the change since it was sneaked in there.

[dkyle]

As for most players - thats beyond there abilities. Turbine generally doesn't care much about what the top 5% of players do.

I don't think this is true. Probably only 5% of players even play epics regularly, yet they've made many tweaks to it.

But when the top players are using a blatant flaw in their game to increase their DPS, I think the Devs do notice, and do care.

[Shade]

I don't think this is true. Probably only 5% of players even play epics regularly, yet they've made many tweaks to it.

1. This has nothing to do with epics.

2. You are not qualified to say what is intended or not in this game.

[dkyle]

1. This has nothing to do with epics.

Sure, but you say the devs don't care about what 5% of the player base does. I cited an example to show why I think you are wrong.

2. You are not qualified to say what is intended or not in this game.

I'm as qualified as you are.

But, are you suggesting that the Devs intended that shuffling in place in a specific way should increase THF DPS, but not TWF DPS?

[chodelord]

/signed on this one

I know everyone who has one or wants one will neg rep me but really what is needed to balance thf is bring back glancing blows while moving but nerf esos

there i said it

[grodon9999]

/signed

[justagame]

I completely agree with the OP. It significantly reduced the effectiveness of THF, presumably because of a small minority that took advantage of the uneven timing of attack animations. So, rather than fix the animations (which should be do-able, as evidenced by the differences we see in racial attack animations), they decided to gut dps while moving.

I know some have used as a justification that damage should be lower while moving. By that reasoning, it should be perfectly defensible to disable offhand procs for TWF while moving as well. Both styles already get -4 to-hit while moving (except for tempests) -- why is the extra damage penalty for THF justified?

This doesn't need to be complicated -- The spring attack solution doesn't make much sense to me. I don't see why one should need to take on extra feats (that have multiple pre-reqs) to undo a nerf that should never have happened in the first place. The THF feat chain would then be out of reach to all but pure fighters.

Just fix the uneven timing of the attack animations -- that removes the worry about so-called twitching (and count me among those that didn't think it was all that widespread a problem in the first place). Then give moving glancing blows back -- please.

It's frustrating now to fight a mob that's hopping around, knowing you're losing significant dps just trying to be in striking range. All because a tiny % of players were gaming the animation timing.