Bring back glancing blows on moving attacks

[Shade]

There was no reason for this nerf in the first place.

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change. Since attacks while moving won't be worth using at all.

Stationary combat is boring. If I was into that I'd go play WoW. Return the glancing blow.

Edit:
Put it on GTHF to make the feat more worthwhile if you feel its too powerful as a free deal.

[Asketes]

I'm on board for this..

I don't take the feats on my toons b/c it's mostly impossible for me to be stationary. It's not in my nature.

I will admit that having 3 extra feats on my melee toons is nice though

[LookingForABentoBox]

What was Turbine's stated reason for the change?

[dkyle]

What was Turbine's stated reason for the change?

None was given, but I think it was focused towards reducing the efficacy of "shuffle in place" twitch THF.

That goal I fully support, but not their method. They should've fixed it by fixing the attack animations so that swapping between them no longer increases attack speed. Not by eliminating the whole point of several Feats and Enhancements.

THF should be like TWF: moving reduce DPS a bit, but doesn't fundamentally change how it works.

So, /signed, as long as "shuffle in place" twitch is killed in some other way.

What helpless change? Where can I read about the changes coming with u9? Hopefully it's not a totally dumb question but I didn't see any proposed release notes so I'm feeling a little lost. Thanks in advance for the point in the right direction.

Keep an eye on the Dev Tracker: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...06#post3658006

[jkm]

None was given, but I think it was focused towards reducing the efficacy of "shuffle in place" twitch THF.

That goal I fully support, but not their method. They should've fixed it by fixing the attack animations so that swapping between them no longer increases attack speed. Not by eliminating the whole point of several Feats and Enhancements.

THF should be like TWF: moving reduce DPS a bit, but doesn't fundamentally change how it works.

So, /signed, as long as "shuffle in place" twitch is killed in some other way.




Keep an eye on the Dev Tracker: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...06#post3658006

you mean like if it worked with spring attack so that there was a purpose for the feats?

[dkyle]

you mean like if it worked with spring attack so that there was a purpose for the feats?

Spring Attack could certainly use some help. Perhaps by making the moving animation exactly the same speed as the standing animation.

But "shuffle in place" twitch for higher attack speed than either standing or moving is just lame. Making it a hidden benefit of a feat would be a bad idea.

Moving should at most be the same DPS as standing still. Absolutely not more. Without a major expenditure like Spring Attack, it should do somewhat less.

[oberon131313]

None was given, but I think it was focused towards reducing the efficacy of "shuffle in place" twitch THF.

That goal I fully support, but not their method. They should've fixed it by fixing the attack animations so that swapping between them no longer increases attack speed. Not by eliminating the whole point of several Feats and Enhancements.

THF should be like TWF: moving reduce DPS a bit, but doesn't fundamentally change how it works.

So, /signed, as long as "shuffle in place" twitch is killed in some other way.

I agree;

twitching was simply a way to artificially inflate your attack rate, just the exact same as machine gunning way back in the day used to do. Put back glancing blows when moving, but slow the attack swing on an interrupted chain (ie moving) to match non-moving.

[Cam_Neely]

What was Turbine's stated reason for the change?

I think it was because twitching with GB created superior dmg, and Turbine considered it a glitch and did not like that. As opposed to fixing the problem and making Twitching not supply a higher attack rate, the removed GB.

[Shade]

I think it was because twitching with GB created superior dmg, and Turbine considered it a glitch and did not like that. As opposed to fixing the problem and making Twitching not supply a higher attack rate, the removed GB.

Very unlikely.

As for most players - thats beyond there abilities. Turbine generally doesn't care much about what the top 5% of players do.

And also, for most classes - twitch attack remains higher dps then stationary. Pretty much every class except barbarian.

I think they were just in the nerf bat mood. They tossed it in the huge TWF nerf thread as like a hidden note, no one really noticed. And no discussion was ever made about it, because the crys of the TWF crowd were far too loud to hear anything from the THF players - most of which never saw the change since it was sneaked in there.

[dkyle]

As for most players - thats beyond there abilities. Turbine generally doesn't care much about what the top 5% of players do.

I don't think this is true. Probably only 5% of players even play epics regularly, yet they've made many tweaks to it.

But when the top players are using a blatant flaw in their game to increase their DPS, I think the Devs do notice, and do care.

[Kinerd]

And also, for most classes - twitch attack remains higher dps then stationary. Pretty much every class except barbarian.

The only class I know of that does higher twitch-DPS is fighter, and that's only against trash. Against raid bosses or portals, even fighters do worse DPS twitching. Do you have a citation that suggests otherwise?

Outside of rogues and rangers, TWF and THF are very comparable, currently. Neither style has a dramatic advantage.

1. If glancing blows are simply added back to twitch-DPS, THF will experience a dramatic increase = unbalancing.
2. If the twitch speed increase is removed, then moving and stationary will be the same DPS per landed swing. I for one think that the continued presence of the ability suggests it is either intended or simply not going to be changed.
3. If (1) is enacted while nerfing eSoS, that is just really bad form given the effort required to get one.

With these in mind, I support the status quo.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

Very unlikely.

As for most players - thats beyond there abilities. Turbine generally doesn't care much about what the top 5% of players do.

So flip this on its head ... your asking turbine to implement something that only effects 5% of the player base?

[sloejack]

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change.

What helpless change? Where can I read about the changes coming with u9? Hopefully it's not a totally dumb question but I didn't see any proposed release notes so I'm feeling a little lost. Thanks in advance for the point in the right direction.

[Samadhi]

There was no reason for this nerf in the first place.

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change. Since attacks while moving won't be worth using at all.

Stationary combat is boring. If I was into that I'd go play WoW. Return the glancing blow.

/signed on this since implementation. There has never been a more pointless and damaging nerf to making melees fun to play.

[Riksha]

There was no reason for this nerf in the first place.

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change. Since attacks while moving won't be worth using at all.

Stationary combat is boring. If I was into that I'd go play WoW. Return the glancing blow.

yes and put the thf speed back up its ridiculous how much faster twf is then thf. they should have maybe 2 or 3 more attacks not 10.. i mean look it up in pnp thf is not that slow

[dkyle]

yes and put the thf speed back up its ridiculous how much faster twf is then thf. they should have maybe 2 or 3 more attacks not 10.. i mean look it up in pnp thf is not that slow

TWF has about 80% more attacks than THF. Which is the same as PnP at BAB 20 with GTWF. The whole point of TWF is to attack more frequently.

TWF attacks slightly faster, in terms of main hand attacks, than THF, but only by very little.

[Gulnar13]

There was no reason for this nerf in the first place.

And even less reason in u9 with the helpelss change. Since attacks while moving won't be worth using at all.

Stationary combat is boring. If I was into that I'd go play WoW. Return the glancing blow.

And since when reason is what guide the devs?
I always thought it was whining, annoyance and a three sided dice named "nerfy" with "arcane" "THF" and "TWF" on it's faces.

Anyway: signed. I stopped playing my barb after the glancin blow change hit the board. It's boring like hell now.

[Synthetic]

Why not just skip the THF feats if you don't feel like it's adding to your playstyle? No or few glancing blows means less reason for you to sit still.

[Zerkul]

I'm more than Ok for Glancing blow on moving attack.

Seems I've created some monsters I can no longer control.

.

[PopeJual]

/signed

Turbine should put Glancing Blows back on moving combat and just fix the combat animation so that "twitching" doesn't give any speed benefit. If you get the same number of attacks twitching as you do with stationary combat, then people will stop twitching. Simple!

Unfortunately, it's easier to screw with feats than it is to change a combat animation, so they took the easy way out. Which seriously screws with people who don't want to twitch, but who do like DDO's dynamic combat system and who want to move around like TWF folks do.