Air elemental knockdowns

[little_me]

yes, popular topic, but seemingly so far has spent so much time getting knocked down as me.

this should also close up all earlier misconception threads that fill the forum and man, were they numerous?

whirlwind effect, DC of 20, STR check, fail, knockdown (and sometimes around)

so, you have str mod of 28, +9 bonus, get beaten around.

someone has str mod of 22, gets beaten around.
someone else, has str of 21. doesn't. what is the logic?

and by doesn't, i mean, does NOT. 100% of time, total, absolute immunity!!
game REFUSES to try to.

actually, str mod means nothing as far as that goes.

yes, none. you can have 30 str and still get beaten around the bush, if..

your base+tomes eaten+level ups+enhancements are not over 20 (not sure of ALL enhancements, i don't have a million alts.)

20 total, you get knocked.
21 elementals do not try.

if you have 20 or below, ingame and in combat log, lot of whirlwind effects are tried.
if you have 21 or over, none.

which likely results in something in code, about not trying if it is useless:
DC of 20, minimum roll of 1, 21, if str this or over, don't try, can't succeed.

even if DC is for str BONUS, not base.

so far, that seems to work as far as i've managed to test and get it tested.


let the bug be fixed and knocking down resume!! air elementals are weak if they don't push you around a bit. this ignore me completely thing is not appealing.


and no, this is not applicaple to trips, stomps, marilith freight trains or tail swipes.

This is as far as i know, ISOLATED case, dealing with air elementals and their knockdown aura and why you, you and you are knocked down and you are not.

[Humperdink]

The average air elementals knock down ability used to be based on your strength or dexterity, whichever was higher. And then a balance check to get back up successfully. A while back they changed it to a Reflex save which is why they became way less powerful for the most part. Now I've seen some djinn that go into a whirlwind-like state (the ones in Running with the Devils for example) and they still do use a stat check, not a reflex check. I'm not sure what you're experiencing. Is there a specific monster you're using to test?

[Jiirix]

[QUOTE=Humperdink;3667736]The average air elementals knock down ability used to be based on your strength or dexterity, whichever was higher. And then a balance check to get back up successfully. A while back they changed it to a Reflex save QUOTE]

Thanks for the info, that explains why my cleric is on his back that often. My STR is a lot higher then my reflex save.

[Sarisa]

For the normal Whirlwind knockdown (not Gust of Wind), I noticed that when you have a shield, no matter what your STR/DEX/Reflex is, you get knocked all over the place.

Moment I got rid of the shield, no issues at all, on either my cleric or wizard (sometimes uses a Skyvault).

[WielderofGigantus]

I have found it interesting, that my sorcerer, who has 14 strength, never gets knocked around or knocked down, absolutely never. On the other hand, my cleric, who has 20 strength and uses a shield, gets knocked around and knocked down like crazy.

I never thought that a using a shield would make any difference.

[Sarisa]

My Cleric used to be knocked all over the map in Reaver's Fate, as I used an upgraded Light and Darkness. It was so bad that I got a Renard's Elegant Hat to use in there.

Once I got better caster daggers and put away the shield, I noticed I no longer needed the hat at all. Did a few tests and it seems that wearing a shield triggers the old style pre-nerf Air Ele behaviour.

Tried it again on my new little caster who carries a Skyvault to shield block in AoE's. With the shield, knocked around. Without, never touched.

As for Gust of Wind, I don't know of anything to stop that besides saves. My little caster is a halfling wiz/rogue, so I do get knocked down but not anywhere near as much as a friend's halfling Cleric.

[rokes]

I have found it interesting, that my sorcerer, who has 14 strength, never gets knocked around or knocked down, absolutely never. On the other hand, my cleric, who has 20 strength and uses a shield, gets knocked around and knocked down like crazy.

I never thought that a using a shield would make any difference.

Exactly the same thing here ! I just noticed it now that you said it. My sorcerer has never been knocked down by it