Do we need a helpless damage boost?

[voodoogroves]

Honestly .... really do we?

[Bodic]

Its is a semi nerf. what its doing is removing the Auto Crit to held mobs so by doing that they are adding in a damage boost, and also if you get held your toon is no longer immune to crits as HF is nullified.

[voodoogroves]

Its is a semi nerf. what its doing is removing the Auto Crit to held mobs so by doing that they are adding in a damage boost, and also if you get held your toon is no longer immune to crits as HF is nullified.

I know what it is, I'm wondering if we actually need it.

It's one of a series of changes that on its own seems innocuous, but probably is unnecessary.

[Spoonman457]

I knew about the removal of auto crits, but can you show where it says helplessness removes fort?

@voodoograves its not an addition of 50% damage its a reduction of 50%-350% dps on any helpless mobs (depending on your weapons crit multiplier)

Thanks

The Spoonman

[voodoogroves]

It's not removing fort; it's a flat damage increase that doesn't care about fort.


I'm not sure we need it.

[dkyle]

Are you saying helplessness should not boost damage in any way? So stunned = tripped, and held = danced?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It's not removing fort; it's a flat damage increase that doesn't care about fort.


I'm not sure we need it.

No, we should get back the old fort dependant double damage, as per D&D rules.

In the absence of that, yes, it makes sense for us to get more damage on a helpless opponant. It's easier to injure someone laying down helpless than someone struggling, moving, and fighting back.

[voodoogroves]

Why not just these?


Helpless: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless
- Bonuses to hit, no DEX to AC, sneak damage applies
- I'd love a coup de grace action (w/ cooldown, auto critical hit)



Stunned: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned
- Not as many bonus to hit, no actions, can be sneak-attacked.

---------- DDO has two kinds of stuns; one generates auto-crits, the other does not



Prone: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#prone
- Bonuses to hit, though don't lose actions

--------- DDO implements this by taking away their actions as well






Why not these? Why not just make these conditions less painful and more in line w/ PNP?


Why amplify the conditions and benefits (auto-crit, helpless damage boost) and then try to counter balance that by stacking on immunities, save increases, etc.


(honestly asking, and as I do I recognize the horse has likely left the barn already)

[voodoogroves]

In the absence of that, yes, it makes sense for us to get more damage on a helpless opponant. It's easier to injure someone laying down helpless than someone struggling, moving, and fighting back.

That's the loss of dex to AC, the basic penalty to AC and the ability to apply sneak damage.



I suspect the reason why not is AC and to-hit are so jacked that they can't figure out how to balance those back in line.

[dkyle]

Helpless: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless
- Bonuses to hit, no DEX to AC, sneak damage applies
- I'd love a coup de grace action (w/ cooldown, auto critical hit)

Nearly useless. Not worth bothering with, unless Coup de Grace also has the "fort save vs. damage dealt", in which case, it's insanely overpowered.

Stunned: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned
- Not as many bonus to hit, no actions, can be sneak-attacked.

Stunning fist/blow/Kakun-do become almost completely worthless.

Prone: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#prone
- Bonuses to hit, though don't lose actions

Animation difficulties, most likely. Supplying attack and move animations while prone would be tremendous undertaking.

Also, the biggest penalty to being knoecked prone is the AoO when standing up. Those don't exist in DDO, and I don't see a good way to add them.

Why amplify the conditions and benefits (auto-crit, helpless damage boost) and then try to counter balance that by stacking on immunities, save increases, etc.

Except that auto-crit has not been dealt with by immunities, and saves are only now increasing as it's being removed.


Basically, your suggestions would nerf those status conditions to the point that applying those conditions would be a waste of time. Better just to do more DPS! That's not what the game needs.