Need a definitive answer on DoTs and stacking.

[InvadeNormandy]

I've googled it a bit and looked at the wiki, done some of my own testing and looked over the forum.... and...

....I'm still at a loss as what DoT effects stack and which don't :P , and I keep finding conflicting information. So I'd love all my fellow wizard/sorc brethren endlessly if I could get a final word on a few things!

1: Which "Persistant" AOEs stack with each other and with other DoT effects. (Such as Burning blood's fire portion with Firewall or incindary cloud? Acid Arrow stacking with acid fog? Or does one "over-write" the other?)

2:I favor a playstyle where I curse/exhaust my target then do DoT effects to conserve SP while I CC/reactive buff/selectively nuke. It's why I'd be overjoyed to have a definitive "stackable damage effect list"

3: I hear tell that ice storm is an underdog ability for this placestyle since it's the only "Ice" DoT. But I also hear it puts out firewalls which wouldn't make me any friends outside of solo play.

[Kinerd]

Wall of Fire and Ice Storm aren't really DoT effects in the way that Acid Arrow and Burning Blood are; the former are area effects that targets can repeatedly be affected by or avoid, the latter are more like buffs that last even if you (the caster) die. I can definitely tell you that Burning Blood does not preclude further Fire damage, so you can definitely damage someone with Burning Blood and Wall of Fire at the same time. I can also definitely tell you that multiples of Wall of Fire or Burning Blood do not stack: Burning Blood literally gets a fresh duration and Wall of Fire essentially does.

My extrapolation (guess) from these is that everything stacks with everything that's different, so Acid Rain stacks with Acid Arrow stacks with Burning Blood stacks with Acid Fog.

[Plantman81]

.........
My extrapolation (guess) from these is that everything stacks with everything that's different, so Acid Rain stacks with Acid Arrow stacks with Burning Blood stacks with Acid Fog.

I've used all of these spell with my Earth savant sorcerer and they all appear to stack. Another side note, if you have empower and/or maximize on and use your spell-like abilities (SLA's) they receive the effects of those metamagic feats w/o incurring any more SP cost.

[Cartheron]

Single target damage over time spells deals damage separately from different casters. Ie. melf arrow, burning blood, lev 5 DoTs, black dragon bolt stacks from differeent casters. Acid portion of burning blood stacks with melf acid arrow (they both tick).

Area of effect spells like wall of fire, acid rain, ice storm and various clouds are not stacking from different casters, only the most recent spell in the area is in effect. Ie. When you cast wall of fire and then someone else cast wall of fire on top of your wall, you stop dealing damage with your spell.

Different area of effect DoTs stack, with few exceptions:

Wall of fire is not stacking with incidentary cloud.

Both above spells are canceled by ice storm.

I dont know anything about acid fog and cloudkill stacking - they should stack, but I dont remember when I casted acid fog last time

[broolthebeast]

Every spell that is different will stack. IE: Placing a Firewall and acid fog will stack.

Placing multiple of the same spell no longer stacks. IE: placing more than one firewall on top of each other doesnt do the trick. (used to stack a long time ago)

All the DoT's stack as well IE: elidar's and niac's stack on top of each other up to 3 times. (have not used the new acid DoT. Heard that it didnt stack like the other two, cant confirm this)

So you could infact have a mob(hit points withstanding) stand in a firewall and acid fog, as well as the DoT's on top of them.

Ice storm will cancel out your firewall.

[Shakanos]

Side note about Firewalls, they don't stack in that if something stands on top of them, only one will do damage. Both (or more, if you drop several) will do the initial damage when something walks into their range. So if you're kiting in a large enough circle (to cause stuff to walk out of Firewall's aoe and then back into it) it's not completely useless to drop more than one.

Ice Storm doesn't have that initial tick, but it's just part of the trade off for the movement slow and (more importantly) no saving throw, so you don't have to see "Evade" pop up on your screen.

[mrphlegm]

Regarding DoT's (eladars, niacs).

Does it matter if i max/emp the first two spells in the stack or am I ok just amplifying the last one? Been meaning to test this myself but i never remember to lol.

[richieelias27]

I've googled it a bit and looked at the wiki, done some of my own testing and looked over the forum.... and...

....I'm still at a loss as what DoT effects stack and which don't :P , and I keep finding conflicting information. So I'd love all my fellow wizard/sorc brethren endlessly if I could get a final word on a few things!

1: Which "Persistant" AOEs stack with each other and with other DoT effects. (Such as Burning blood's fire portion with Firewall or incindary cloud? Acid Arrow stacking with acid fog? Or does one "over-write" the other?)

2:I favor a playstyle where I curse/exhaust my target then do DoT effects to conserve SP while I CC/reactive buff/selectively nuke. It's why I'd be overjoyed to have a definitive "stackable damage effect list"

3: I hear tell that ice storm is an underdog ability for this placestyle since it's the only "Ice" DoT. But I also hear it puts out firewalls which wouldn't make me any friends outside of solo play.

Some clarifications are in order.

To number 1: All Persistant "Area Of Effect" spells stack with each other, but not with themselves even if they are cast by different casters. It should be noted that persistant "single target" spells DO STACK with themselves, but ONLY if they are from another caster. If you cast two Melfs Acid Arrows, you will only get a single hit. If you and another caster both cast Melfs Acid Arrow, the target will recieve two Melfs effects. Same for Burning Blood, Black Dragon Bolt, Niacs, etc. Niacs Biting Cold, Eledars Electric Surge, and Divine Punishment all follow the same rules: They all stack with themselves up to 3 times, and will simply refresh their durations after that. They also stack with themselves when they are cast from different sources as per the rules for Melf's Acid Arrow.

2: I suppose I gave you the "Stackable damage effect list" In the answer to #1. You should know however that cursing and debuffing every enemy before applying a DoT is incredibly mana inefficient. No DoT's have saves (unless you count the initial tick for WoF and Acid Rain, and excepting Contagion), so debuffing your target first is a waste if all you are going to do is DoT it to death.

3: Ice Storm is not an underdog at all. Ice Storm is actually extremely powerful given that it is the only DoT which includes "untyped" damage. Yes it does put out Wall of Fire, but if you are careful you can still use both effectively. Also, Ice Storm is not the only DoT. Niacs Biting Cold is also a DoT, but is single target.


Now to clarify some other things that have been mentioned:

Black Dragon Bolt is a DoT like Melfs, it is in no way like Niacs or Eledars and it cannot be stacked on top of itself so long as it is coming from the same source.

For the Niacs Biting Cold type spells: Yes, you can cast the first two stacks as normal (no emp/max) and then cast the final one with both Max/Emp and it will still do the same damage as if you cast all 3 with Max/Emp.

Wall of Fire and Acid Storm both get a save for the initial tic of the spell, and only that first tic. Kiting something in and out of the spells radius counts as a first tic, so doing this with a low DC is very unproductive. Ice Storm, Acid Fog, and Solid Fog have no saves at all for any part of the spell, ever.

Wall of Fire and Incendiary Cloud not stacking is actually a bug, I am fairly certain.