Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee!

[asphodeli]

Re: regenning SP below 12 SP

I support this only if this effect is removed as you level. Like say, once you hit CHARACTER level 6 or 7, you lose the regen effect. Otherwise, there will be strange builds like 8 Ftr / 12 Wiz using death aura to regain HP indefinitely

[moorewr]

Let's start small.

Dear Turbine developers:

Pretty please explain, in PnP rules terms, why Wall of Fire should no longer be extendable?

Love,
Moorewr

[pjw]

I always want extended haste, I rarely want extended resists etc.

Let me put metamagics per-spell on the tool bar, and get rid of their cool downs completely.

But above all, as someone else said, tread carefully: put this on lama for a long time and don't be afraid to rethink some if these changes.

[quityourjobs]

So many people willing to pass judgement on partial information.

"This new thing, it is bad..."

[Siskel]

1. When will we be getting free Lesser Hearts?

2. Seen no mention to repair spells. My guess is that we will not be able to enhancement them, and Reconstruction is getting the cool down nerf.

3. Hope to see the other changes, and I am really hoping that these were the worst of it.

[bobbryan2]

Re: regenning SP below 12 SP

I support this only if this effect is removed as you level. Like say, once you hit CHARACTER level 6 or 7, you lose the regen effect. Otherwise, there will be strange builds like 8 Ftr / 12 Wiz using death aura to regain HP indefinitely

Umm, no. Then my lvl 20 sorc can't use their SLA indefinitely.

[Trillea]

1. When will we be getting free Lesser Hearts?

2. Seen no mention to repair spells. My guess is that we will not be able to enhancement them, and Reconstruction is getting the cool down nerf.

3. Hope to see the other changes, and I am really hoping that these were the worst of it.

re: 3) I hope so too but doubt it.

[Calebro]

I think the main thing is that with the SP cost changes to damaging spells based on their usefulness, metamagics definitely need to be looked at again.
When Maximizing a spell costs more than simply casting the spells again, Maximize becomes a useless SP sink. It's even worse for Empower.

Example: Lightning Bolt: 12 SP, or you can choose to double that damage which MORE than triples the cost of the spell.
Or instead you can choose to add 50% to the damage, which MORE than doubles the cost of the spell.
Or you can choose to do both at for a total of 250%, which exceeds 430% of the original cost.

I really hope metamagics also got an overhaul, because otherwise they just became utterly useless.

[Book_O_Dragons]

Are there any changes to divine spells?

I really think implosion (clr/fvs 9) should get its cooldown halved (60 seconds currently). It will still be weaker than wail of the banshee because it kills a specific number of targets over time instead of being a one shot kill to all within range (no limit).

p.s. PWK is an enchantment spell with NO SAVE

[Requiro]

Re: regenning SP below 12 SP

I support this only if this effect is removed as you level. Like say, once you hit CHARACTER level 6 or 7, you lose the regen effect. Otherwise, there will be strange builds like 8 Ftr / 12 Wiz using death aura to regain HP indefinitely

And what you get against this strange build?

They are not good in Ftr or Wiz.

And this is creative build.

Good for them if they like play this way

[bobbryan2]

I think the main thing is that with the SP cost changes to damaging spells based on their usefulness, metamagics definitely need to be looked at again.
When Maximizing a spell costs more than simply casting the spells again, Maximize becomes a useless SP sink. It's even worse for Empower.

Example: Lightning Bolt: 12 SP, or you can choose to double that damage which MORE than triples the cost of the spell.
Or instead you can choose to add 50% to the damage, which MORE than doubles the cost of the spell.
Or you can choose to do both at for a total of 250%, which exceeds 430% of the original cost.

I really hope metamagics also got an overhaul, because otherwise they just became utterly useless.

There's a certain elegance to that as well, as sorcs need to pick up a different feat now.

[Missing_Minds]

I'm eager to see how it pans out.....I will say that the change to WoF is going to change caster play dramatically.

Correction, it will change 1 trick casters dramatically.

[sirgog]

The comments here make me /facepalm.

Sorcs go from 3-4 trick ponies - the worst class in DDO, with little other than bad DC Holds, Reconstruct, Haste, Displacement, Resist Energy and Firewall at endgame - to the highest DPS class in the game (by at least 100% when manadumping) and still people scream 'NO! This new thing, it is bad!' all because the one truly overpowered spell on their list gets a nerf it has needed for years.


Decent Nuker sorcs hardly used Firewall outside of undead quests anyway, except in conjunction with Discoball at endgame, or on the odd regenerating boss like Taeron Rimond or the Shroud lieutenants. Quicker to throw a DBF/Chain Lightning or two to wipe out a room, then run run run until dungeon alert, then repeat the process.


Previously Sorcs had to be held down because their ability to cast Firewall was so overpowering that they couldn't be given other nice toys. Now they have versatility, power, the ability to turn 15 SP into 286 damage every three seconds (Polar Ray, no metamagics, Superior Glaciation 8 only, not counting crits which add another 31.5% on average to that) AND the ability to burn mana to do damage more quickly.


Max-Empped Polar Ray spam is now over 320 DPS (and 20 damage per mana) even on Elite Horoth with his 80 cold resist. A Sorc that does nothing other than spam Polar Ray on cooldown on Horoth till Suulo spawns, then switches to Suulo and repeats, and drinks one mana potion then pikes the rest of the raid has pulled their weight as a DPS party member. If they add Cloudkill (for concealment), Icestorm and emergency Reconstructs on players at risk of death, they are probably the raid MVP.

[Theolin]

Sooooo if I am understanding this correctly

You are trying to make arcanes into DPS ... ok lets see a melee is 200(bad)-600(awesome) dps err call it 350 as a nice average sustainable dps on most mobs ... so

I can cast 1 spell per second .... I better be able to sustain 350ish DPS as well then! every time guaranteed no matter what ..... oh oops I cannot, well for like 2.5minutes with all the toys and sp regen clickies so with reduced costs by about 1/2 ill get 5 minutes .... oh wait its 10 between shrines oops

oh did I mention I have 2/3 the HPs as the melee .... hmmm seems like a fail is coming here who's gonna take a arcane now .... I can see it now shroud ... no arcane please need melee, Heals & bard, got to get haste somehow

Cool downs on insta kills lest see most fights last 10ish seconds + 5 seconds in between .... um well guess I wont be using them what once every 2ish encounters .. maybe ... ooooh boy goodie goodie its now a waste of 4 slots not just 2

looks to me like every wizard is gonna be a AM with MM SLAs force spec'd with haste and blur ... oh boy variety variety variety .... yippie oh they might have the rays/bolts as well for rotating in but variety ... not really

DOT spells ... well if I am soloing yea I might use them but in a group ... fights only last 10ish seconds and my tics are every 2 seconds at what maybe 60 damage each & this somehow compares to a melee how exactly ... ugh give me a sword & DP clickies I'll do more damage

tl;dr: so your trying to make casters more like they are in WOW ... umm gee thanks

[bobbryan2]

Correction, it will change 1 trick casters dramatically.

I don't see it. It didn't change casters who can keep the guys burning inside a wall... it just narrowed the amount of space you have to kite.

The big change here seems to be metamagic efficiency.

[pjstechie]

Interesting changes, will feel like a whole new game for a caster i think.

5. Wall of fire ( up to 35 SP – targets now get a reflex save when they first enter the effect, but no saves against the flames if they remain in the wall. Now only does an additional 2d6 against undead instead of double. Duration is now locked to 30 seconds regardless of level. Can no longer be extended)

-Torc
DDO Game Systems

I'd like to see how wall of fire compares to Ice storm...

[sirgog]

I think the main thing is that with the SP cost changes to damaging spells based on their usefulness, metamagics definitely need to be looked at again.
When Maximizing a spell costs more than simply casting the spells again, Maximize becomes a useless SP sink. It's even worse for Empower.

Example: Lightning Bolt: 12 SP, or you can choose to double that damage which MORE than triples the cost of the spell.
Or instead you can choose to add 50% to the damage, which MORE than doubles the cost of the spell.
Or you can choose to do both at for a total of 250%, which exceeds 430% of the original cost.

I really hope metamagics also got an overhaul, because otherwise they just became utterly useless.

Nope, Maximize still has its place.

Need high damage per mana? Turn the metas off.

Need high damage per second? Turn the metas on.

Also, don't forget that there are enhancements available (albeit expensive ones) that dramatically improve the SP efficiency of Maximize Spell, as well as items. You may not be able to fit Tier 3 Improved Maximizing into your build, but Tier 2 and Gloves of the Glacier drop the cost of Maximize down to 15SP (IIRC), and 12 if you can cough up all the AP for Tier 3.

Similar enhancements are available for Empower as well, but aren't very good value for AP, IIRC, except for the first tier.

[Requiro]

(..)

I really hope metamagics also got an overhaul, because otherwise they just became utterly useless.

For the most part – yes / maybe? We don’t see the big picture.

But what we know for sure that for most AOE spells empower and maximize metamagic will be still very useful. Maybe this is Turbine goal? AOE+Metas grown in power and single target spells will be just better without metas?

I'm worry more about Extended. After changes casters will be used it mostly for buffs…

But - we must test it first and then complain With complete new caster system there is no way that we can see all advantage now.

Most of this complains now are because This is just new thing

[thenalim]

Let's start small.

Dear Turbine developers:

Pretty please explain, in PnP rules terms, why Wall of Fire should no longer be extendable?

Love,
Moorewr

I'd love to hear this too.

This update sounds absolutely insane. The changes in FW is rather stupid as it wasnt even good enough to compete with a decent melees dps to begin with and you can have 5 melees on a mob at any one time but only 1 firewall. Either way the cooldowns are what really gets me down, this is gonna reduse arcanes into something I have no interest in playing.

[Calebro]

Most of this complains now are because This is just new thing

I'm not complaining. I like the changes coming for the most part.
But metamagics concern me. We'll see how it turns out when we have all the info.