Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee!

[xPhoxhoundx]

All I smell here is a load of FAIL to nerf those who play casters. Thanks for nerfing our spells, AGAIN.
But since you LOVE listening to people whine about what's OP and sucks about the game, get rid of PVP. It's wasting space on our servers and causing lag. Yeah, thats right, I'm using the same obtuse, USELESS logic to nerf someone else. Get the hint. The spells were just fine the way they were. We don't need sp reductions, timers or extra additions to spells that worked just fine for years.

/rant

[Xaxx]

So they take the biggest trick an arcane has and ram it up the tailpipe....

well heres something the devs need to think about... one of the main reasons firewall/wof, whatever you wish to refer to it as, became so popular was sp cost versus damage versus monster hp, let me make this as clear as it can possibly be.....CURRENTLY CASTERS DONT DO A WHOLE LOT OF SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE BESIDES POLAR RAY BECAUSE OF THE MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASIVE AMOUNT OF HP EVERYTHING HAS, FIREWALL AND BLADE BARRIER BECAME THE ONLY TRULY HUGLY USEFUL SPELLS COMPARED TO THE MANA SPENT FOR VIRUTALLY MOST MOBS.

So you back off the mana of alot of spells... and lo and behold.... SINGLE TARGET DPS IS STILL GONNA SUCK AND ITS GONNA BE EVEN WORSE AT MID LEVEL THAN AT HIGH SINCE IT WILL STILL TAKE THE FULL FLIPPING MANA BAR TO TAKE OUT 15 MOBS.

So because of the devs stupidity in the original design choices for casters versus mobs that originally forced most casters to turn into a one trick pony that everyone then coppied, and the mindset seems to have stuck with mass hold, your going to turn casters into a half trick pony.

You know I remember seeing the first screenshot of a shroud weapon, it was a teir 2 lightining strike (holy + shocking burst, no blast and lightning strike effect) and i thought wow I could rule the current game with 2 of those in kopesh form.... shroud comes around and yeah we did rule the game for a while (and greensteel continues 3 years later to be the weaponry of 95% of level 20 meles) and then the hp increased further and greensteel was balanced slightly, but the power level of mele had forever changed.

Casters never got that power level change from items... every item that has been introduced latly.... DOES NOT STACK PERIOD. tod sets, ear dweller, etc... none of it is stackable even though it should be but thats another discussion.

So let me ask the devs this (and yes caster solo ability is high currently), what happens to a wiz/sorcs solo abilities.. virutally every other class if built right can solo their way to cap no matter what (pots/scroll healing, clerics can easily be built to half mele), while pretty much the only way for casters to solo is (and this is why it was ever even started) throw firewall, drag it through, because see theres this funny thing where single target damage versus mana used doesnt come close to working out to equaling enough mana to get through a quest and i dont have to see the change of spell point costs to know its STILL NOT GOING TO WORK. So tell me oh knowing developers, you better **** well have thought this out, what spell combination will we use to be able to get through stuff, because unless theres a monster hp drop or a new item stacking ability, or your also going to double the mana available to arcanes, this aint gonna work.... so devs wheres our caster green steel and epic sos/chaosblade item type buff to spell power ability?

[Anneliese]

I can't remember the name of it now, or even if it survived at all, but I remember reading about an MMO where you had to research all spells to discover them, and their power and effectiveness was inversely proportional to how many casters in the world were using them. For example: the more people cast wall of fire, the weaker it becomes. If that's not trademarked, etc, why not implement that system? That way you don't have to keep telling us you nerfed all the usefull spells, it can just happen automatically!

That was Asherons Call, Turbines first MMORPG 1999. (It works in a different way now).

It is still running - and I am still subscribed for over 11 years now

[Bladedge]

5. Wall of fire ( up to 35 SP – targets now get a reflex save for half when they first enter the effect, but no saves against the flames if they remain in the wall. Now only does an additional 2d6 against undead instead of double. Duration is now locked to 30 seconds regardless of level. Can no longer be extended)

I saw what you did there , you added "reflex save for half".
Still how do you get a reflex save against a WALL made of fire?
Have you ever run into a wall and get a reflex save? A fort save, maybe, but not a reflex save.

Not being able to do double against undead is and can't extended is un-PnP.

[Alavatar]

I think you guys scared away the new Dev.

[Gratch]

Devs.... gonna give a thumbs up on doing something with this spell system that's been boiled down to just a few spells of efficiency. Things -they- needed shaking up.

Casting was getting as boring as barbo'ing (rage, rage, str bump, auto-attack Harry, make sandwich, collect loot).

For those who say "OMG - this isn't D&D anymore". Nice. Um... you're already in the variant spellpoint system of spellcasting that hasn't been "proper" 3rd ed for the past 5 years of this game. Rebalancing said variant system even if it pulls YOU out of the 4-spell comfort system is fine by me.

Well maybe we should switch to proper D&D slotted spellcasting. The melee's don't wait for you to put up crowd control now, do you think they'll wait for you per shrine to change your spells/level/slot. "Hey guys.... I'm trying to swap in uses of ice and electric spells for part 4 of the shroud. Just give me a sec. Guys. Guys. Oh, it's over already?"

[Aashrym]

I saw what you did there , you added "reflex save for half".
Still how do you get a reflex save against a WALL made of fire?
Have you ever run into a wall and get a reflex save? A fort save, maybe, but not a reflex save.

Not being able to do double against undead is and can't extended is un-PnP.

The stop, drop, and roll method followed by quickly getting up would be my guess. Imagine it that way if it help.

[Bladedge]

I think you guys scared away the new Dev.

Scared away. The Dev started it.
S/he just wants to get a reaction from the posters before posting again most likely.
The OP probably got the shorter straw when it can time to break the news on the spell changes or rolled a 1.

[Nospheratus]

WTS Level 20 Wizard with 2 Wizard past lifes!















Seriously though: I don't like the changes just for looking at them without trying them. Seems like with these, along with the spell enhancements changes, casters will be even more a haste bot...

Can we get a clear explanation of the logic behind the spell costs? Is it purely based on how much people use it?...

And, can we please drop the spell point recovery over time!?!?! IT WILL KILL YOUR POT SALES IN THE STORE!!!

[Aashrym]

I'm giving the concept behind the spell changes Aashrym's official thumbs up of approval. We really did need reasons to cast other spells and some other options.

The nerf to wall of fire was a long time coming, but seriously, it's used so much for a reason. Changes to it and other spells can bring them more into line.

One of the best changes mentioned so far is the removal of HD limits on some spells. That offsets some of the nerfing IMO. I can see myself running in, circle of death followed by wail of the banshee and then DPS survivors if the SP pool can handle it.

I'm looking forward to some of the spell changes and I don't see any huge issues specific to the spell changes so far.

[xPhoxhoundx]

I'm hereby posting a call to all casters on the server regarding the new updates coming to spells in the new mod:
Lose extend. Lose all those spiffy spells that the melee's love for raids and quests. No haste, no blur, no displace, no rage.


You wanna fight dirty and nerf us? We can play that game too.

[Burtle]

I'm hereby posting a call to all casters on the server regarding the new updates coming to spells in the new mod:
Lose extend. Lose all those spiffy spells that the melee's love for raids and quests. No haste, no blur, no displace, no rage.


You wanna fight dirty and nerf us? We can play that game too.

^^

This...

[Chidane]

I'm hereby posting a call to all casters on the server regarding the new updates coming to spells in the new mod:
Lose extend. Lose all those spiffy spells that the melee's love for raids and quests. No haste, no blur, no displace, no rage.


You wanna fight dirty and nerf us? We can play that game too.

Proceeding!

[hityawithastick]

As a wizard who uses firewall only when it is unavoidable, I can say I like this. I much prefer one-shot spells to just dumping firewalls (although a pale master with a shield does lend itself well to setting up inside a firewall and curbstomping the trash with death aura). I am enthused by the upgrade to PWK and circle of death--now, instead of having just three useful 9th-level spells, maybe I'll have four! After all, a no-save instant kill is nothing to sneeze at--especially against nasty-looking orange names.

[DrNuegebauer]

I can't see why anyone is upset at all???

Don't you realize burning hands is only going to cost 4SP

And since you'll automatically regen to 12SP now, it means you get 3 burning hands every 18 seconds!!11one!11one!

[KreepyKritter]

Oh noez!

Tehy haz taeken hour fier wallz aweigh! DOOOOOOOOOooooOOOOOooooOOOOOM!!!1!11!!!1!!!one!!!e leven!!!exclamationpoint!!111!

It saddens me that it will take a nerf of this size to force arcane casters to expand their bag of tricks to include tools of other shapes and sizes. It also saddens me that 9 spells were chosen as 'Examples', and everyone has already assumed that every other available spell is going to suck, in spite of the lack of evidence to confirm that assumption.

Seriously, look at the boost to single target nuking! Look at the CC potential! Look at the SP savings! Want to talk about a class being religated to nothing but buffing? Look at Bards. That's pretty much all they ever were, and we hear no complaints from that group, and their Buff role extends from lvl 1 straight up to end game and epic. How is this change (nerf) any different than the change (nerf) to TWF/Ranged/Glancing Blows? How many of you lot with full casters as your mains came out to chest thump and nerd-rage against those changes?

'This new thing is bad!'

Everyone has already assumed that the cap to the SP Regen mechanic is 12, even though Torc implicitly stated that those numbers were EXAMPLES only. No numbers for lvl 2-20 have been mentioned, and no one really seems to have picked up that this mechanic applies to ALL full caster classes (Those with magical training as a granted feat at lvl 1).

Cool your nerd rage already, and give it a chance. The real test isn't the teaser posts. The real test is Lamannia. I'm just sad that I don't have a primary caster to port over when the U9 release drops on the preview servers so I can voice an informed opinion.

[Sethasoigh]

I saw what you did there , you added "reflex save for half".
Still how do you get a reflex save against a WALL made of fire?
Have you ever run into a wall and get a reflex save? A fort save, maybe, but not a reflex save.

Not being able to do double against undead is and can't extended is un-PnP.

If you want PnP or as close as possible the WoF will hurt party members and the caster and also the enemy would either run in fear, or run around it and then it would be totally usless.

Please stop trying to use the PnP theory to be mad at the WoF change its just weak.

[Kielbasa]

I'm hereby posting a call to all casters on the server regarding the new updates coming to spells in the new mod:
Lose extend. Lose all those spiffy spells that the melee's love for raids and quests. No haste, no blur, no displace, no rage.


You wanna fight dirty and nerf us? We can play that game too.

Looks like my bards just found more party slots. Thanks!!

[Quarterling]

I saw what you did there , you added "reflex save for half".
Still how do you get a reflex save against a WALL made of fire?
Have you ever run into a wall and get a reflex save? A fort save, maybe, but not a reflex save.

I've decided to test this out in real-life.

I ran into the hallway wall 100 times now, and not once did I think I took less damage than normal (each subsequent wall-run felt just as painful as the previous). So either I didn't roll a 20 any of the 100 times (if the wall's DC is that high), or whoever thought up the idea of giving WoF a reflex save needs to re-reflect on this.

[Burtle]

i've Decided To Test This Out In Real-life.

I Ran Into The Hallway Wall 100 Times Now, And Not Once Did I Think I Took Less Damage Than Normal (each Subsequent Wall-run Felt Just As Painful As The Previous). So Either I Didn't Roll A 20 Any Of The 100 Times (if The Wall's Dc Is That High), Or Whoever Thought Up The Idea Of Giving Wof A Reflex Save Needs To Re-reflect On This.

Rofl +1