Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee!

[DelverRootnose]

For someone who keeps claiming that someone else doesn't play or know much about casters, you sure don't seem to know much about casters.

so tell me what do you think the end result of these changes will be for a caster who likes to play crowd control. Especially since damage spells are increased and the most effective crowd control spells are getting the nerf bat.

[The_Phenx]

DEATH EFFECTS:

Chaaanngggeeee….

• Costs remained the same.

• We’re pulling the death wards off epic and many pieces of content that had death proof monsters. There have been adjustments to “vorpal” weapons and the like that made us more comfortable with this change. Eladrin posted on these elsewhere if you’re looking for the sneak preview of that…

I need to know with all this how do spell effects on weapons change?

For example what is happening to the HD/DC On my Epic Souleater?
If you guys are adjusting the epic mobs saves upward which I assume you are now that death effects will work... this means epic trap the soul will become useless.

It only works 1 out of every 5 times it goes off as it is, and it only goes off on 2% of swings...

So umm... ???

Answers Please

[Chidane]

(to skip the rage, go to the bottom of this post)I protest these changes to spells, I want to be a rocket, powerful but short. Not some candle that conjures pixie dust and spiderwebs! I became a pale master for POWER. I became Elemental specced for POWER. I became a wizard in itself for POWER. So now instead of being a god I'll be a CC/Buff bot? This is a horrible change. It's nothing but another caster nerf for yet another game. The only thing different this time is that you told us first which I thank you for. But a nerf is a nerf. I see Cleric celebrating the death of the arcane, I see the Fighter missing that kill due to the creature missing the firewall, I see the Warforged in need of healing, I see more parties, demanding haste and wasting regents, and last of all I see thousands of rerolling players, looking for the power they once knew and not finding it.
This is an outrage. The ultimate power of casters is taken away. The learning cliff gone to let the big dumb fighters try and be casters. Our mountain is being reduced to a pebble, okay maybe not that much.
I know I'm overreacting, but I have a right to! This will be ignored by all who can do anything about it. The Devs will keep on plowing their plan into us. That's just how Devs are, no matter what game, no matter what subject. There is nothing we can do but let our opinions be ignored once something is announced.



I will not stand for this. I don't like it and it will redefine casters everywhere.

[DelverRootnose]

they'll have to implement greensteel deconstruction for anyone with a GS khopesh because honestly. we're talking about weapons that players spent months getting and if they go from king to **** well then i think we'll have more than a 'few' ****ed off players and more than a 'few' players leaving over a company that would show that they could care less about the player's hard work.

when has that stopped turbine. I mean these changes will take me a month to rejigger my character unless I buy a heart of wood and lesser reincarnate.

[IgorHackNSlasher]

You realize this means I'm going to have to think when I kite TOD now.

EDIT: Actually this mean that the Shadows in TOD get a reflex save, so if they pass it I don't actually get their aggro and they'll kill the party.

Pros- I can kill the party and pretend I'm upset about it
Cons- The party might expect me to use some other spell, and not die.

5. Wall of fire ( up to 35 SP – targets now get a reflex save when they first enter the effect, but no saves against the flames if they remain in the wall. Now only does an additional 2d6 against undead instead of double. Duration is now locked to 30 seconds regardless of level. Can no longer be extended)

Other than duration, there shouldn't be much of a change kiting the shadows as long as you put a FW on the party

[Yskuma]

I’m actually looking forward to some of these changes. It’s not exactly thrilling gameplay sitting in a firewall, getting healed by Death Aura, looking at the huge selection of spells on my hotbar that I very rarely use. Was nobody else getting bored of sitting in firewalls all day? I think if Turbine does this with a bit of thought it could make the casting classes so much more interesting.

On a side note, I will miss being able to Wail every 8 seconds… at times that spell does make you feel as if you’re cheating.

[Auran82]

so tell me what do you think the end result of these changes will be for a caster who likes to play crowd control. Especially since damage spells are increased and the most effective crowd control spells are getting the nerf bat.

You continue to use crowd control?

Mix in some debuffs, hit the enemy with some damage spells when they are immobilised (hell, drop a firewall on them for 1.5x damage)

And maybe even join some endgame raids because you will now have the option of doing meaningful sustained DPS instead of running out of SP after a minute of nuking.

[LordDamax]

Havent read the whole thread, but I'm pretty happy with all the changes but three, and a comment:

#1: Wall of fire should be a Fort save for half damage. Not Reflex. I'm sorry, if you're running THROUGH a wall of fire, there is no way to evade the damage. My concern here is the mass numbers of evasion mobs with absurd saves suddenly becoming immune to WoF. I totally understand the concept why... better to bake them in a wall than to kite through. I just dont like the idea of the reflex/evasion on it.

#2: Incendary Cloud: Awesome on the damage boost, boo on the blindness save, and the nerfing of the duration really sucks. The duration is what made the spell worthwhile. With the nerfing of WoF and IC's duration I may drop Extend. Only other reason for it is haste and displacement.

#3: The cooldown on spells for sorcs being only slightly less than that for Mages REALLY sucks. Part of the benefit to sorc is half cooldown... but in almost all of these changes, we get a 15-25% cooldown reduction, not 50%. Pushes power back to the wizard.

Comments:
Reducing or increasing spellpoint costs, when metamagics are static cost modifiers, isnt really a big deal. Sure, at low level, reducing scorching ray to 6 from 15 is nice, but at mid levels with metamagics on, the reduction is barely noticeable. And reducing Polar Ray, the best DPS spell in the game, to such a huge degree... I dont get that one.

[Grindor]

My biggest concern is that the game has been developed around people mindlessly casting FW everywhere all the time. Hit points are through the roof on most mobs because of this. Now you take away THE offensive maneuver that most groups use, but I'm doubting there will be an adjustment to mob hit points. So while you're nerfing players, nerf mobs too. If that happens, then I'd say this is a great set of changes. If it doesn't, then a lot of people are going to find the game much less enjoyable.

As for the person saying that their barb should get hp regen since casters will get this pittance of a sp regen, sure... When you drop below 8 hit points, you'll regenerate 1 hp every 6 seconds. Useful, huh?

[Aaxeyu]

My biggest concern is that the game has been developed around people mindlessly casting FW everywhere all the time. Hit points are through the roof on most mobs because of this. Now you take away THE offensive maneuver that most groups use, but I'm doubting there will be an adjustment to mob hit points. So while you're nerfing players, nerf mobs too. If that happens, then I'd say this is a great set of changes. If it doesn't, then a lot of people are going to find the game much less enjoyable.

As for the person saying that their barb should get hp regen since casters will get this pittance of a sp regen, sure... When you drop below 8 hit points, you'll regenerate 1 hp every 6 seconds. Useful, huh?

Epic mobs will have their HP cut in half and are no longer immune to instakill effects.

[LordDamax]

The more I read, the more upset I am over what appears to be a huge nerf to extend.

I have TWO spells its worth having for now. Haste and Displacement.

I'm not seeing a reason to keep it.

On the plus side, hey, free feat. On the down side, you just really hurt what should be a powerful feat.

[voodoogroves]

The more I read, the more upset I am over what appears to be a huge nerf to extend.

I have TWO spells its worth having for now. Haste and Displacement.

I'm not seeing a reason to keep it.

On the plus side, hey, free feat. On the down side, you just really hurt what should be a powerful feat.

I've shifted away from it on my divines already, once they get a Torc and decent SP regen.

I don't think we needed SP reductions on these direct damage spells either.

[crimsonknights2]

(to skip the rage, go to the bottom of this post)I protest these changes to spells, I want to be a rocket, powerful but short. Not some candle that conjures pixie dust and spiderwebs! I became a pale master for POWER. I became Elemental specced for POWER. I became a wizard in itself for POWER. So now instead of being a god I'll be a CC/Buff bot? This is a horrible change. It's nothing but another caster nerf for yet another game. The only thing different this time is that you told us first which I thank you for. But a nerf is a nerf. I see Cleric celebrating the death of the arcane, I see the Fighter missing that kill due to the creature missing the firewall, I see the Warforged in need of healing, I see more parties, demanding haste and wasting regents, and last of all I see thousands of rerolling players, looking for the power they once knew and not finding it.
This is an outrage. The ultimate power of casters is taken away. The learning cliff gone to let the big dumb fighters try and be casters. Our mountain is being reduced to a pebble, okay maybe not that much.
I know I'm overreacting, but I have a right to! This will be ignored by all who can do anything about it. The Devs will keep on plowing their plan into us. That's just how Devs are, no matter what game, no matter what subject. There is nothing we can do but let our opinions be ignored once something is announced.

I will not stand for this. I don't like it and it will redefine casters everywhere.

Let me start by saying kudos to turbine for trying to bring in the next generation of wizards and to make a class appeal to a larger audience. I applaud your efforts.

Let me also say that I do NOT speak for the current generation of wizards as I do not play mine any longer. I discovered long ago that my vision of a wizard does not align with Turbine's vision of a wizard.

Turbine, when you start posts like this thread, supplying change information to your players, you may want to include how and why you feel these changes solve some of the current complaints in the game, otherwise it seems that all you are doing is creating a larger audience who will not approve of the current game play. I doubt this is the case and more effective communication could help to alleviate the confusion.

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/2

[KreepyKritter]

So... I see something missing.

No mention of fixing the off-casters' currently useless CC spells.

I don't actually play arcane casters, so all the doom and whine chanting is falling on deaf ears here. However, I do tend to run off-casters; bard/ranger/pally (okay, pally spells are generally minimal use items anyway). How about a pass there? Make snare actually viable for a lvl 8+ ranger to use, bump the DC at least. Most mobs pass the strength check, or never trigger the effect to begin with. As it stands, all I really ever need on an arcane archer is Ram's/Barkskin/Resist/Protection/FOM/CSW... that leaves a helluva lot of spell slots that either get used for things like Neutralize Poison or Remove Disease, and even then I've still got WAY more spell slots than I actually need for the spells I actually carry.

I'd LIKE to be able to CC to some effect as well, and Snare + Spike Growth COULD be useful in that regard, if their DC's weren't such utter **** to the point of not really even warranting the code space used to pin them to the spell list

[Aashrym]

Originally Posted by gurth83
Will bard get mana regen too? Please yes...



http://ddowiki.com/page/Spellsinger_enhancements
Spellsinger I requires magical training or one of the other listed feats. Spellsinger I and II grand 100 SP each, but I am not sure if that counts as "magical training". Can a spellsinger please check this: Is magical trainging listed among your feats? Would love to see the sp regen on spellsingers, it would fit them nice.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan..._Spellsinger_I

I've played bards forever, it's not on the list of feats.

[Auran82]

Comments:
Reducing or increasing spellpoint costs, when metamagics are static cost modifiers, isnt really a big deal. Sure, at low level, reducing scorching ray to 6 from 15 is nice, but at mid levels with metamagics on, the reduction is barely noticeable. And reducing Polar Ray, the best DPS spell in the game, to such a huge degree... I dont get that one.

I suspect the idea with the metamagics was to try to make having them turned on an actual choice, need more damage over time (dpm) turn off maxamise and empower, need something dead *now* turn them on.

Only thing I would like to see is the cost to heighten changed and have the ability to have spells with metas included as their own hotbar buttons.

[Aashrym]

People might want to think about the changes to autocrit in helpless state some more. What if these changes effect auto crit brought on by weakening/enfeebling handwraps or the that nice shinny wounding/puncturing pick you have. Going from x3 on your kophesh to x1.5 will be a real shocker for you.

It might be a shocker when that khopesh rolls a crit for for *4.5 too. I don't think we're clear on how actually rolling a crit while attacking helpless targets will work. The fact they no longer auto crit doesn't mean they will never crit, so worst case you will still have a high crit range weapon and all other damage sources will get a boost.

[Aashrym]

so I will be able to cast scorching ray or magic missle once every what, 24 seconds after I use up my spell points. Oh joy I get to stand around, or more likely run around, trying not to get killed while the barbs turn on auto attack and go have coffee. May as well TR into an arcane archer.

Archmage Evoker, 1 SP, free meta's, with that regen adding SP faster than you can shoot the magic missiles. You can pew pew magic missiles to your hearts content. Just sayin'

Edit: I see you saw that and posted it later.

[sephiroth1084]

Surprised anyone cares at all about the Firewall duration nerf.

Usually in the content where you cast Firewall, everything is dead within 10 seconds of you casting it, often within 6 sec. Only real exception is tougher quest bosses, most of whom casters will use SLAs on; or predictable mob spawns (I'll FW here because every 20 seconds a mob spawns there, and it will die immediately if FW is up; thinking Litany of the Dead mainly here).

Plenty of places where even an Extended WoF doesn't last long enough aside from boss encounters. Admittedly, many of those situations are disappearing, kind of, as epic mob HP is being cut in half, but I'm sure there will be places I'd like it to last longer still. Now, we pay the same cost as though we had Extended it, but it lasts half as long, while doing less damage. As it is, there were only 4 or 5 spells I was using Extend for at endgame anyway, and it looks like half of those have had that utility removed.

I'm with the earlier poster who said that he may not be able to justify Extend anymore at endgame. If disco ball and charms still allow for Extend I might not be able to give it up, but if it's down to just Haste and Rage I'll probably ditch it. I really dislike the removal of this utility, this option.

[BananaHat]

It might be a shocker when that khopesh rolls a crit for for *4.5 too. I don't think we're clear on how actually rolling a crit while attacking helpless targets will work. The fact they no longer auto crit doesn't mean they will never crit, so worst case you will still have a high crit range weapon and all other damage sources will get a boost.

But it is obvious. The helpless victim gains 50% damage vulnerability from all sources. People don't seem to realize that their pure good will be doing 1d6*1.5, although they will be giving up a lot of seeker and maiming damage. I expect to see some new crazy high crit numbers from barbs. Crit multiplier on a 20: x6*1.5 with an Epic SOS, make it happen max strength FBs.