Spell Pass Preview - Chaaannggeee!

[Missing_Minds]

Cloudkill or acid fog?

incindary cloud will be the replacment i have a feeling. Close to acting like the old WoF did.

[shagath]

The cool down on Power Word Kill is a bit long. Nice that it only has to bypass SR but that cool down is just too long to bother with loading it. I could see it having a cooldown twice as long as Otto's Irresistable or FoD, but not 4 minutes.

Would be probably a bit too easy way to kill epic monsters with that short cooldown if you just can beat their sr. Epic monster down every 5secs(FoD cd) no save?

[Angelus_dead]

Cloudkill or acid fog?

Since Incendiary Cloud is changing to be 30 seconds, Cloudkill and Acid Fog will probably change the same way. In combination with their longer casting time, they'll be worse than Wall of Fire as aggro-catchers.

PS. Notice that some Sorcerers will be gaining a speed-burst effect to help them kite more safely.

[mehlinda]

After my initial reading I gave these changes 5 fails of a possible 6.. I give it an overall fail quotient of enormous as I realize how enormously screwed Sorcs come out in this. I guess we all have an extra feat since extend is basically useless. I feel sorry for Burger King because they obviously spend a lot of money training people only to lose them to a Dev team that obviously doesn't play the game they work on...awesomely good fail this time. This only increases the gap between melee and caster and even greater is the void between Wizard and Sorc.

How about if you guys paid 6-12 people to play the game 8 hours a day who actually know how to play and then get feedback and then use a nerf bat when necessary instead of a nerf fleet.

[Philibusta]

Now, keep in mind, I don't play casters in DDO. Well, mostly not. I've got one lowbie wizard that'll probably remain a lowbie forever cause it didn't take me long to figure out that playing a wizard in DDO sucks compared to playing one in PnP. It actually even sucks worse than playing one in WotC&D (3E and up), and that sucked immeasurably compared to playing one in actual AD&D (1E and 2E). (I could go into reasons...like minuscule spell lists, no familiars, and lack of item creation (yes, boys and girls, wizards used to be able to actually create magic items!!) but that's not my point.

On another note, it has become a noticeable point that arcane casters are a rather difficult class to get into. The Classic 3.5 D&D concept of starting weak then gain cosmic power. While loyal to our roots we felt that perhaps the current learning curve is a bit too harsh, and we’re looking at making it an easier class role to enter for new players.

...Am I the only one that feels like this kind of thing is a dagger in the back to those of us who stuck with D&D in earlier years? Basically what I mean is, am I the only one who's sick of the game I grew up playing and loving being dumbed down? Now it's to the point that even the kind of half-brained idiots that used to make fun of us for being smart enough to play D&D (while they obviously weren't), can play it WITH us! Oh the joy!

Also..."Classic" 3.5?...sorry that made me rofl.

Anyway, on the topic of the thread (sorry)...

We’ll be introducing a limited form of spell point regen for players who have “magical training” (as in the feat). This is to avoid a true “out of gas” situation for our casters. The concept is that when a caster drops below a certain spell point threshold a spell point regen effect known as “echoes of power” applies itself until the caster reaches that threshold again. The goal is to allow low level players continue to cast level 1 spells at a diminished rate when their “out of gas” while high level players will be able to continue to use their PRE-s with the meta magics they normally require for high level play.

Currently in testing… these values are examples mind you…

• Echoes of power will appear when a player drops below 12 SP.
• Echoes of power will allow the player to regenerate at a rate of 4 SP every 6 seconds.
• Echoes of power will remove itself once a player reaches 12 SP or greater.

Cool! So my question regarding this is, when are melee's gonna get a "Second Wind" effect that kicks in when things have gotten hurty and the HP's are low? Yeah, I know, I know, "there's heal pots and clerics for HP", right? Well, there's also SP pots and Divine Vitality for SP.

[The10man]

So in other words, in order to FORCE us to use other spells, you nerf the hell out of the one spell in the game that you KNOW is the bread and butter of every mage, making it MORE expensive AND less effective? NO. Just NO. How about you leave this spell alone and make whatever changes you plan to make to the other spells. If you truly think you are improving the rest of the spell system so much, then you dont need to club us over the head by borking this spell.

Seriously, just leave it alone. Yo umay make some non-mages happy to see the arcanes getting smacked with the nerf bat, but all you are REALLy going to do is tick off a bunch of arcane players needlessly. If the intent is to make the system better and to make it 'more enjoyable' as you said, then DONT mess with the things we LIKE and just fix the ones we DONT like.

I am all for a rebalancing pass that improves the overall system, but that doesnt mean that you need to nerf one of the signature spells of the class.

NOT signed.

This is ridiculous!!! Saddest thing I've ever heard. "our other spells suck so in order to force you to use the sucky spells and see our neato art we'll nerf the best spell AND make it cost more SP" This is sad and WILL cost subs. Make other spells better/cheaper to make them more viable. STOP THE NERFING AND DUMBING DOWN!!! IF WE WANTED TO PLAY WOW WE WOULD!!!

[irivan]

hmm the jury is out, not sure i care that much about the firewall change as my tactics have changed so much for trash mobs, and i am confident that my DC's will overcome the saving throw anyway, unless of course mob Dc's have been jacked up considerably.

But i really like what they are doing with circle of death, sleep, and some others.....

Yin/Yang...i am torn...

[Aurora1979]

But i really like what they are doing with circle of death, sleep, and some others.....

Yin/Yang...i am torn...

This is a genuine question, not gonna go on again in this post but i properly curious.... what does sleep give that hypno doesnt?

[Meat-Head]

Agreed on nerfing extend and upping cooldowns = not so great. Also, that Echo should scale with level = /signed

But, the FW thing isn't that bad. Maybe they take half damage (somewhat realistic like reaction or REFLEX to touching hot surface).

But he said if they stay in the flames there is no save.

SO KITE MOBS ALONG THE LENGTH of your FW.

Problem mostly solved.

That's how I do it anyway. It's just enough room to run, turn, and jump over incoming mobs. Rinse/Repeat.

Still works just fine.

I think increasing the variety of spells used will be kinda neato.

[sirgog]

So, 200+ posts and not one complaint about the 'Easy Button' that is 15sp Polar Rays?

Bad form, DDO forums. Very bad form.

[Angelus_dead]

Power word: Kill!

Upper hit point cap removed except in PVP. Kills, no save, but spell resistance applies.
240 second cool down for wizards, 210 second cool down for sorcerors

Suggestion for using long cooldowns as a balance factor:
Only start the cooldown if the spell actually is cast, and only use the full cooldown if the spell actually works.

That is, if I click PWK but the monster teleports or dies before my spell happens, then I don't deserve to be punished with a multi-minute cooldown. (Imagine if two Wizards throw PWK at the same mob at once)
If I cast PWK on an enemy and it bounces off SR, I might not deserve the same long cooldown as if I had killed it.

[shagath]

So, 200+ posts and not one complaint about the 'Easy Button' that is 15sp Polar Rays?

Bad form, DDO forums. Very bad form.

There should be save in polar ray to make it more enjoyable.

[Kourier]

Since Incendiary Cloud is changing to be 30 seconds, Cloudkill and Acid Fog will probably change the same way. In combination with their longer casting time, they'll be worse than Wall of Fire as aggro-catchers.

PS. Notice that some Sorcerers will be gaining a speed-burst effect to help them kite more safely.

I don't see any mention of these spells being unextendable. That may be because they are not maximizable or empowerable. If all else fails, use fog cloud or something, I guess.

[Aurora1979]

So, 200+ posts and not one complaint about the 'Easy Button' that is 15sp Polar Rays?

Bad form, DDO forums. Very bad form.

yea but in U10 they will give all mobs cold immunities.... ;D

[Meat-Head]

So, 200+ posts and not one complaint about the 'Easy Button' that is 15sp Polar Rays?

Bad form, DDO forums. Very bad form.

Shhhhhhhhhhh!.... Nothing to see here... Move along please.

[Junts]

You realize this means I'm going to have to think when I kite TOD now.

EDIT: Actually this mean that the Shadows in TOD get a reflex save, so if they pass it I don't actually get their aggro and they'll kill the party.

Pros- I can kill the party and pretend I'm upset about it
Cons- The party might expect me to use some other spell, and not die.

Its already possible to kite tower without a damage spell - any persistent aoe with a debuff that affects them will get their aggro. You can kite just as easily with cloudkill or glitterdust as wall of fire.

This shouldn't change you at all.

I'll also point out that with few differences, what's being addressed here is not primarily spell efficacy (that being addressed by pre and enhancement changes), but damage:mana efficiency issues, which is to say the entire caster thread I started a year and a half ago. They're equalizing other sources of damage to the firewall sp efficiency range, and decreasing firewall's efficiency just a little to meet those changes. This change doesn't make polar ray do more damage - it lets you do things you can presently do with firewalls by casting chain lightnings or fireballs instead.

That lets other elements be effective and produces more dynamic, less jump-and-kite based play for the same endurance result.

The firewall changes are barely mentionable: you rarely need more than 30s of a firewall for what we use firewalls for, and the reflex for the cross is not a major change (it just somewhat reduces the thing that distinguished firewall from other aoe dots and made it so much better htan them, the ability to get damage outside the 2 second ticks).

[unholy1]

so ... the devs are mad cause the players only use the best spells so teh nerf the best ones and expect us to adjust. they are mad cause we kite mobs w low ai through a wlal of fire. what is really happening here is the devs are overcoming a lack of character AI development bt nerfing our tools. heres a hint devs u wanna see us use something other than firewall? make wall of force or wall of stone or wall of _______ from 3.5. i think getting away form the 3/5 core rules here is a bad call and will alienate many of teh faithful ole skoo PnP players which are the ones whose blood supported this game nad the pnp game through thick and thin. i guess turbine figures that since wow is so great that they should be more like them. if you truly want to make all spells more viable dont nerf just make all of the other crappy spells better. the first time a party watches a caster kite TOD with a spell liek touch of idiocy or solo epic wiz king with death to undeath people will get on board and want to be that caster who figured out something new. taking away WoF and nerfing other great spells is not the way to do it. and fyi i am from a time in this game before wall of fire when web was FTW.

[Jaid314]

So, 200+ posts and not one complaint about the 'Easy Button' that is 15sp Polar Rays?

Bad form, DDO forums. Very bad form.

i'm still getting a chuckle out of the "discounted" SLAs. oh goody, burning hands now only costs me 1 SP! because 3 SP was just *too much* :P

(yeah, i know, free metamagics... still find it funny :P )

[PopeJual]

And lets face it, how often did you fight in a Wall of Fire in PnP? Around it? Use the spell in every day encounters?

How often did you cast a Fireball into a melee in PnP?

In PnP, you have to worry about hurting your party members with your area spells. Additionally, spells did pretty terrible damage compared to the save-or-die and save-or-lose spells that were available.

Spells like Charm [person/monster/whatever], Hold [person/monster/whatever], Polymorph, etc. that would end an encounter in one casting ended up being much more effective than damage spells.

[fuzzy1guy]