The Chillblain - a first attempt at a max-DPS Cold Savant

[TheDearLeader]

Extend still?

I have extend now, which is a convenience most of the time, super-great in ToD part 3, and a cheap way to double my firewall output when I'm using it.

Removing extendable firewall from that list relegates extend to being a just a convenience for everything except ToD part 3. I'm very seriously considering dropping it on my wizard right now; are you sure you can spare the feat slot on a sorc?

Cheers,
Kernal

We'll have to see just what spells can still be Extended.

All Buffs? Maybe. I Hate-Hate-HATE recasting Haste/Rage/Displacement. And there are some times where shorter duration casts cause complications - such as Haste in ToD. Timing between banishes and all that.

Debuffs? Who knows.

Damage spells with a time limit other than WoF and Melfs? Again, who knows. Looks like not, but we don't know.

Extend is losing a lot of its appeal though, for sure. It's a sad day when an Arcane doesn't *want* a Metamagic.

[Rodasch]

Preliminary Spell List (and as always, I know I'll forget something critical):

1: Jump, Nightshield, whatever
2: Melf's Acid Arrow, Resist Energy, Knock, Web (and ouch at no Blur)
3: Haste, Displacement, Rage, Lightning Bolt (just to have one electrical spell)
4: D-Door, Fireshield, Firewall, Icestorm (Firewall is indeed worth having, primarily for undead-toasting)
5: Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Break Enchantment, Cyclonic Blast (just to have an utterly untyped spell in the list)
6: Symbol: Persuasion, GH, Oitlukes', Reconstruct (Recon for tank healing in raids and occasionally in some epics)
7: Finger of Death, Mass Protection from Elements, Discoball
8: Polar Ray, Summon Air Elemental, maybe TTS
9: Mass Hold Monster, Wail, ???

You only get 3 level 6 spells on a sorcerer, you'll need to lose one of those.

[sirgog]

Extend remains mandatory for Haste and Displacement. It's already weak on Firewall anyway, except on bosses, the mobs are usually dead before Firewall goes out. Kiting hyper-high HP opponents just became weaker - I for one don't really care.

As for Toughness - totally mandatory, IMO, to deal with three things - teleporting mobs (there's quite a lot of them at endgame), epic Lailat (the standard PUG method is utterly unsurvivable under ~400hp), and the various big fireballs that get thrown by endgame mobs, which often cannot be dodged (thinking 250 point DBFs from Abashai casters in eChrono, the 400 point Disintegrates that epic Devil Assault's Tiefling Master Warlocks like to hit you with when your back is turned, and so on).


And as for equipment selection (and where to get Greater Evocation Focus) - haven't really considered it, but the Epic Staff of Inner Sight is a solid choice as always.

[TheDearLeader]

And as for equipment selection (and where to get Greater Evocation Focus) - haven't really considered it, but the Epic Staff of Inner Sight is a solid choice as always.

I've thought about this as well, *but*...

I use a Superior Glaciation IX (Risia of Course) Scepter of Major Ice Lore, and the new dagger from the event.

The dagger I could take or leave for Ice Evocation, but the Scepter.. well, if I could tape it to the staff, I would.

I hate two-handed caster items >.<

[sirgog]

I've thought about this as well, *but*...

I use a Superior Glaciation IX (Risia of Course) Scepter of Major Ice Lore, and the new dagger from the event.

The dagger I could take or leave for Ice Evocation, but the Scepter.. well, if I could tape it to the staff, I would.

I hate two-handed caster items >.<

I'm considering Tevli's Sash for most cold enhancing, the epic VON6 necklace as a swap-in for enhancing cold spells when deaths are frequent or clickies can't be relied upon for other reasons, and while I'll ultimately want a Superior Ice Lore item, I think there's none in game (can't be bothered searching to confirm this), and a Greensteel accessory with Greater Acid Lore and Major Ice Lore may be the way to go.

[TheDearLeader]

I'm considering Tevli's Sash for most cold enhancing, the epic VON6 necklace as a swap-in for enhancing cold spells when deaths are frequent or clickies can't be relied upon for other reasons, and while I'll ultimately want a Superior Ice Lore item, I think there's none in game (can't be bothered searching to confirm this), and a Greensteel accessory with Greater Acid Lore and Major Ice Lore may be the way to go.

The EV6 Necklace... Meh. I think I own it, so I *could* use it. And of course, everyone has Telvi's.

I'd be a heck of a lot more impressed if the all the EV6 Caster necklaces came with Greater Evocation Focus on them, though. They'd be closer to actually seeming Epic.

But thanks for reminding me of it, I will take it into consideration.

[sirgog]

The EV6 Necklace... Meh. I think I own it, so I *could* use it. And of course, everyone has Telvi's.

I'd be a heck of a lot more impressed if the all the EV6 Caster necklaces came with Greater Evocation Focus on them, though. They'd be closer to actually seeming Epic.

But thanks for reminding me of it, I will take it into consideration.

Yeah, it's a bad item, but it does fill an important niche here. I wouldn't consider wearing it full-time (Torc is too important for that), but there's times when you will want it.

IMO it should be given a stacking +1 to Evocation DCs. THAT would be epic.

[shagath]

and while I'll ultimately want a Superior Ice Lore item, I think there's none in game (can't be bothered searching to confirm this), and a Greensteel accessory with Greater Acid Lore and Major Ice Lore may be the way to go.

No superior ice lore. I recommend you to make ml16 ornamented dagger T3 instead of skiver, green blade or whatever if you want to nuke.

Ornamented Dagger (Level 16) (Tier 3) - +4 Dagger (1d4+4, 19-20/x2): Tier3, Superior Potency VI, Major Fire Lore, Major Ice Lore, Major Lightning Lore, BtA, ML:16

It's missing major acid out of main elements but it's pretty **** good.

[tinyelvis]

Extend remains mandatory for Haste and Displacement. It's already weak on Firewall anyway, except on bosses, the mobs are usually dead before Firewall goes out. Kiting hyper-high HP opponents just became weaker - I for one don't really care.

As for Toughness - totally mandatory, IMO, to deal with three things - teleporting mobs (there's quite a lot of them at endgame), epic Lailat (the standard PUG method is utterly unsurvivable under ~400hp), and the various big fireballs that get thrown by endgame mobs, which often cannot be dodged (thinking 250 point DBFs from Abashai casters in eChrono, the 400 point Disintegrates that epic Devil Assault's Tiefling Master Warlocks like to hit you with when your back is turned, and so on).


And as for equipment selection (and where to get Greater Evocation Focus) - haven't really considered it, but the Epic Staff of Inner Sight is a solid choice as always.

I'll drop extend in a heart beat. Only picked it up again because of the need to extend wall of fire during solo epic runs. But then, I am not melee'r in sorcerers clothing...hehe. 100% sorcerer, not a drop of melee or sensitivity for melee in my blood.

I don't have toughness, don't need it, don't want it on any of my casters currently. Things may change in the future. We will see how the toughest epic level pans out. I have never died in epic devils, only rarely in eChrono (often lead the party while trash hunting and solo loot scrolls). Though, certainly I watch carefully for danger when questing (i.e. Abashai). I have only ever died once in epic Demon queen. I have no problem with someone taking that feet and would not call them foolish for it. However, I can't understand folks who won't tolerate the other point of view and have little patience for them.

[tinyelvis]

Here is a build based on what I know of stuff following roughly the format first put up here by sirgod (easy to build, light on items)
3 sorc past lives, 1 wiz

Enhancements:
Charisma +2 6
Capstone 2
Max II 6
Dragon Blood II 3
Savant Pre 8 (air)
Electric Line 19 (All damage and crit that I know)
Cold Damage 7 (+50% cold damage)
Fire Damage 7 (+50% fire damage)
Cold crit 8 (four in each.......7% crit, 100% dam)
Fire crit 8 (four in each, 7% crit, 100% dam)

Total 74
Extra 6 points to either spell pen, or more fire/cold crit buff, or charisma if no +3 tome.

Feats:
Maximize
Empower
Heighten
Focus Evo
Greater Evo
Active Wiz (Go greater spell pen here if no wiz)
Spell Pen
Force of Personality (<-- only really necessary if you plan to do a lot of epic solo, not a critical feat levels 1-20 non epic)

Charisma easily obtained 40 drow (+3 tome or final Char enhance) 36 WF, 38 otherwise
Base running with napkin DC 37
Evocation with item DC 43
Other with item DC 38

Bard, Yugo, Store all add +1 each to DC (all easily obtained. Loot items and other things will add but will take much more time to grind approaching a DC 50 for 15 minute intervals)

Spell Use: With a mid 40's DC you will crush trash at any level.
Hvy DPS Mode: Cycle Chain lightning, DBF or Polar Ray, Polar or Meteor Swarm (with SLA's used on stragglers)
High damage goal or Super high save and Evasion: Cycle Polar Ray, Shocking Grasp
Mana Conserve with kick: Cycle Chain Light, Shck Gr, Light bolt, Chain Light, shk g, Eloop
Straight mana conserve: Drop Chain Lightning and drop DPS

Equipped with an ornamental dagger, this fellow can DPS in the current Epic Content with the changes proposed. He will be one of the highest DPS'ers come the new mod. Almost indestructible with 40+ will save and trip near immunity. The only tough part to the build is running that one wizard level. New players may want to swap force of personality for toughness, but there are few enhancement points to spare on hit points though.

Any rookie should be able to get their evocation DC into the 40's with this build. It is easier to TR than grind for items like helm of frost, litany, +4 tome.

[Madryoch]

I've thought about this as well, *but*...

I use a Superior Glaciation IX (Risia of Course) Scepter of Major Ice Lore, and the new dagger from the event.

The dagger I could take or leave for Ice Evocation, but the Scepter.. well, if I could tape it to the staff, I would.

I hate two-handed caster items >.<

I am using the tod set for crit multiplier and could use blue dragonscale instead of red that i am now using to have the rate as well or greensteel hp item with major ice lore... Also u could always use Black dragonscale robe that adds +2 to evocation or epic robe of fire...

[TheDearLeader]

I am using the tod set for crit multiplier and could use blue dragonscale instead of red that i am now using to have the rate as well or greensteel hp item with major ice lore... Also u could always use Black dragonscale robe that adds +2 to evocation or epic robe of fire...

I know what items in game *possess* Greater Evocation Focus. I'm saying none of them really scream "Water Savant" to me.

I'm just as likely to save myself some grind, and use the Yellow Slot on my Epic Ornamented Dagger to get +1 Evocation Focus from Epic Crafting. It's one less DC, but it's a lot easier than changing my entire gearset so that my armor slot can be occupied by an item that gives me exactly *one* beneficial effect.

Edit : I should mention that I'm not using the ToD set, and will continue to not use it unless the Exceptional Bonus on the Ring changes, the Belt gains Archmagi, and the Set Bonus either Stacks, or at the very least matches Major Ice Lore. Right now its 5%/x0.50, and Major Ice Lore is 9%/0.50 -- a ML:18 Set bonus should not be worse than what can be found on a randomly generated ML:8 Scepter.

And I'm sorry if the first part up there comes across as rude - rereading it, I'm worried that it might. I appreciate you attempting to help, and I'm just annoyed to find all the Greater Evocation Focus items to be so... I don't even know how to say it. *Not* directed toward Elemental Savants, other than Fire. (Epic Robe of Fire, Upgraded Regalia of the Phoenix). Or, even worse, directed toward no particular build at all.

[Kamo]

Here is a build based on what I know of stuff following roughly the format first put up here by sirgod (easy to build, light on items)
3 sorc past lives, 1 wiz

Enhancements:
Charisma +2 6
Capstone 2
Max II 6
Dragon Blood II 3
Savant Pre 8 (air)
Electric Line 19 (All damage and crit that I know)
Cold Damage 7 (+50% cold damage)
Fire Damage 7 (+50% fire damage)
Cold crit 8 (four in each.......7% crit, 100% dam)
Fire crit 8 (four in each, 7% crit, 100% dam)

Total 74
Extra 6 points to either spell pen, or more fire/cold crit buff, or charisma if no +3 tome.

Feats:
Maximize
Empower
Heighten
Focus Evo
Greater Evo
Active Wiz (Go greater spell pen here if no wiz)
Spell Pen
Force of Personality (<-- only really necessary if you plan to do a lot of epic solo, not a critical feat levels 1-20 non epic)

Charisma easily obtained 40 drow (+3 tome or final Char enhance) 36 WF, 38 otherwise
Base running with napkin DC 37
Evocation with item DC 43
Other with item DC 38

Bard, Yugo, Store all add +1 each to DC (all easily obtained. Loot items and other things will add but will take much more time to grind approaching a DC 50 for 15 minute intervals)

Spell Use: With a mid 40's DC you will crush trash at any level.
Hvy DPS Mode: Cycle Chain lightning, DBF or Polar Ray, Polar or Meteor Swarm (with SLA's used on stragglers)
High damage goal or Super high save and Evasion: Cycle Polar Ray, Shocking Grasp
Mana Conserve with kick: Cycle Chain Light, Shck Gr, Light bolt, Chain Light, shk g, Eloop
Straight mana conserve: Drop Chain Lightning and drop DPS

Equipped with an ornamental dagger, this fellow can DPS in the current Epic Content with the changes proposed. He will be one of the highest DPS'ers come the new mod. Almost indestructible with 40+ will save and trip near immunity. The only tough part to the build is running that one wizard level. New players may want to swap force of personality for toughness, but there are few enhancement points to spare on hit points though.

Any rookie should be able to get their evocation DC into the 40's with this build. It is easier to TR than grind for items like helm of frost, litany, +4 tome.

This is exactly what Im planning, will be great fun with wind dance.

[sirgog]

According to Lamania reports, the new cold DoT spell is excellent and Melf's is too. Both should be taken and a moderate investment in Acid too; maybe even the electric single-target DoT should be considered.

[LEELOONA]

Frost lance is in your rotation but not on your list ? (my sorcerer is level 6 so I'm trying to choose the right spells at the mentor)
Do you take only the SLA version ?

Preliminary Spell List (and as always, I know I'll forget something critical):

1: Jump, Nightshield, whatever. I'm a big fan of Ray of Enfeeblement for rednameds and the odd super-tough orange named too.
2: Melf's Acid Arrow, Resist Energy, Knock, Web (and ouch at no Blur)
3: Haste, Displacement, Rage, Lightning Bolt (just to have one electrical spell)
4: D-Door, Fireshield, Firewall, Icestorm (Firewall is indeed worth having, primarily for undead-toasting)
5: Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Break Enchantment, Cyclonic Blast (just to have an utterly untyped spell in the list)
6: Symbol: Persuasion, Oitlukes', Reconstruct (Recon for tank healing in raids and occasionally in some epics; GH removed from the list due to me not having had a Sorc for long enough to forget that you get only 3 level 6 spells; we shall see the performance of Oitluke's post-spell pass and if it still sucks, we can return to the conveneience of real GHs that survive 55% of dispel attempts and last ages)
7: Finger of Death, Mass Protection from Elements, Discoball
8: Polar Ray, Summon Air Elemental, maybe TTS or a low caster level Incindiary Cloud
9: Mass Hold Monster, Meteor Swarm, ??? - possibly Power Word Kill for nasty orange nameds like Epic Warlock S'obrien.

Would like to fit Crushing Despair now that it has been reported to have an AoE -5 Will save debuff (regardless of success/failure on the save).



Edited to take into account some suggestions, and to account for my poor Wail DC and the fact that I couldn't hurt the Abbot at all with the previous list. I'd like to fit in some other spells of course, but Sorcs aren't really allowed to be hyper-versatile.

[sirgog]

Frost lance is in your rotation but not on your list ? (my sorcerer is level 6 so I'm trying to choose the right spells at the mentor)
Do you take only the SLA version ?

Yeah, SLA only. I'd reassess the spell list a bit too as I posted it before all of the spells were tested; Niac's Biting Cold and Eladir's Electric Surge are incredibly powerful for instance.

[Matuse]

All Buffs? Maybe. I Hate-Hate-HATE recasting Haste/Rage/Displacement. And there are some times where shorter duration casts cause complications - such as Haste in ToD. Timing between banishes and all that.

All buffs that can currently be extended, will still be able to be extended with U9.

Debuffs? Who knows.

As best as I can determine, all spell debuffs can also be extended. Sorc vulnerability curses cannot.

Damage spells with a time limit other than WoF and Melfs? Again, who knows. Looks like not, but we don't know.

Well, we do know. All duration damage spell (WoF, Melf's, Electric Surge, Incendiary Cloud, Acid Fog, Ice Storm, Blade Barrier, Implosion...as a partial list) are fixed duration.

Extend is losing a lot of its appeal though, for sure. It's a sad day when an Arcane doesn't *want* a Metamagic.

Eschew Materials?