Update 9 and Pale Master Wraith Form

[Velexia]

Wraith Form grants "Constitution damage on unarmed critical hits."

What it doesn't mention is A: How much constitution damage (1-8? 1-10?)
and B: The enemies get a saving throw against the constitution damage... (what save, what's the DC? what increases it?).

So essentially, without critical hits on held, stunned, etc monsters... and with the mysterious saving throw... it will go from "happens less than half the time after the monster is held/stunned" to .. never.

So I am requesting/suggesting that you either...

Remove it from the Wraith form entirely (since it's not really ever going t omatter anymore).

Or...

Change it to a wounding effect on hit...

Or...

At the very least, get rid of the mysterious saving throw.

My Wizard/Monk would be much obliged.

[donfilibuster]

Remove it from the Wraith form entirely (since it's not really ever going t omatter anymore).

Probably doesn't matter 'as it is' for plenty of people anyways.
On PM threads i often see players recommending to use a real wounding weapon instead.

[Velexia]

Probably doesn't matter 'as it is' for plenty of people anyways.
On PM threads i often see players recommending to use a real wounding weapon instead.

The only piercing (and thus puncturing) weapon I know of for Monks would be a shuriken... and good luck getting your hands on one of those.

[Velexia]

Probably doesn't matter 'as it is' for plenty of people anyways.
On PM threads i often see players recommending to use a real wounding weapon instead.

So players, and you by proxy are telling me to accept that it 'is' useless.

I am telling the Devs to accept that it is useless, and asking them to fix it.

[incineration]

The only piercing (and thus puncturing) weapon I know of for Monks would be a shuriken... and good luck getting your hands on one of those.

shuriken are slashing

[donfilibuster]

So players, and you by proxy are telling me to accept that it 'is' useless.

I am telling the Devs to accept that it is useless, and asking them to fix it.

Yes when palemasters post asking how to better use the unarmed drain they often get told to not do.
Picking a higher crit rate con damage weapon with masters touch and divine power clicky may work better.

Naturally, monk builds and splashes suffer yeah, but may still do it since it's just the issue of 5% crit.
Wizards could also attempt autocrits with spells but this seems nerfed for u9.

[Velexia]

shuriken are slashing

Well then... we got nothin'

[bobbryan2]

Well then... we got nothin'

Short swords...

[Enoach]

There is a way to figure this out with a small bit of logic.

1. Find a Wraith, stand still and let it hit you and watch the combat log (recommend House K chamber of Insanity 4 named Wraiths)
2. Read the combat log
3. Discover that you have made Fort Based saves and on a failed save lost 1 to 2 points of Con per these hits

As for school - Spells that drain life or damage base stats 99 times out of 100 come from the School of Necromancy

Why I feel this should not be bleed or act as a punturing/wounding weapon - Wraith's don't kill you with outward inflictions - they kill you by draining you of your life.

As for the discussion over how often this will get a critical hit - yes in its current form it is 5%

However, often missed is this one piece that I have discovered while working to become a master PM: Wraith unarmed attacks ignore Armor AC (exceptions: Flametouch, ghosttouch, Mage Armor)

[Talias006]

Short swords...

Daggers are piercing and have a better threat range than unarmed. Plus they're simple weapons and not martial. Just sayin'.

[Velexia]

Daggers are piercing and have a better threat range than unarmed. Plus they're simple weapons and not martial. Just sayin'.

...and not Monk weapons... which is what we are talking about.

Dark Monk Ninja Spy gets Short Swords.

[donfilibuster]

Daggers are piercing and have a better threat range than unarmed. Plus they're simple weapons and not martial. Just sayin'.

The talk about short swords and shurikens was because someone asked what piercing weapon monks have.
This would be as an alternative to a monk splash using unarmed combat while on undead form.

[Velexia]

There is a way to figure this out with a small bit of logic.

1. Find a Wraith, stand still and let it hit you and watch the combat log (recommend House K chamber of Insanity 4 named Wraiths)
2. Read the combat log
3. Discover that you have made Fort Based saves and on a failed save lost 1 to 2 points of Con per these hits

As for school - Spells that drain life or damage base stats 99 times out of 100 come from the School of Necromancy

Why I feel this should not be bleed or act as a punturing/wounding weapon - Wraith's don't kill you with outward inflictions - they kill you by draining you of your life.

As for the discussion over how often this will get a critical hit - yes in its current form it is 5%

However, often missed is this one piece that I have discovered while working to become a master PM: Wraith unarmed attacks ignore Armor AC (exceptions: Flametouch, ghosttouch, Mage Armor)

That doesn't figure out the range of con damage, or what contributes to the DC. At best you've come up with Fortitude Save, which is a no-brainer. My point is, it's not mentioned at all in the description. I honestly doubt that Necromancy Spell Focus has anything to do with the save, since it's not a spell effect.

Any mention of puncturing or wounding is in reference to con damage only. Bleed was never mentioned.

That's 5-10% (Improved Critical: Bludgeoning)

...and yes, having Wraith unarmed attacks bypass physical armor would be very welcome, and expected.

But aside from all of this... you still missed the point... which is that the Wraith Form unarmed attack dealing con damage on critical hits is not only misleading in its description, but is also suffering from Update 9's proposed changes so much as to be nearly useless. I would like for the developers to recognize this and either make it not useless (ignoring physical AC is a start) or stop pretending that it is a useful feature worth even mentioning, and just get rid of it (so people don't mistake it for something worth building a character around in the future).

[Letrii]

...and not Monk weapons... which is what we are talking about.

Dark Monk Ninja Spy gets Short Swords.

Bows

[Ghoste]

The only piercing (and thus puncturing) weapon I know of for Monks would be a shuriken... and good luck getting your hands on one of those.

Ninja spies can use short swords.

[kartos]

I suggest they add the effect also to any on touch spell you use and thus allowing a more controllable way of using it

[Velexia]

Ninja spies can use short swords.

Way to read the thread