Can we put Sorc Savants PrEs on hold, please?

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Before you flame me, bear in mind that I have two sorcerers that are my main characters and are my favorite class to play. I've played this game long enough to know that a change like this will have some consequences that weren't thought out very well.

1. Sorcerers cannot swap spells at will (tavern, shrine or otherwise). And take considerable amount of time to swap a number of spells in and out.
2. Sorcerers are feat and AP starved.
3. The damage gained does not outweigh the heavy loss in versatility (and sorcerers are not very versatile to begin with).

So, you are in fact forcing players to either TRing or LRing at the very least just so that we can take advantage of any one given line of focus. You are also creating an environment where certain builds will be heavily favored and all other builds heavily segregated against. Who would ever want a fire Savant for any of the Devil story line, for instance. Or a Cold Savant for necro quests? So, some people (myself included) won't use the PrEs at all. Don't want to spend $8 (or so) on an LR heart nor do I have the desire to TR so that I can get those extra two points to STR and go with a PrE then then having to LR into a different PrE because of level and quest type demand different kinds of damage. None of the other PrEs for any class requires builds to be LRd. Most of them can be fixed with couple feat swaps (which could be acceptable for sorcerers too). But fighter Kensai, for intance, if they go full focus on, say, Scimis, doesn't mean that they will have a 30% DPS penalty on Long Swords and their BaB lowered to 17, for instance.

For these reasons, I'd like Devs to reconsider the sorcerer PrE Savant lines. I would rather wait until a patch after Update 9 than having a broken, IMO, PrE line just for the sake of having them.

[KingOfCheese]

I'm taking a wait and see approach.

My "main" is a sorc and I play him as a balanced build (good enough DC's for CC in epic; solid nuking capability; UMD). He is great as a solo build and also can take on the caster role in a group in any of the game content to high effectiveness.

Things I've thought about:

1) don't specialize; or
2) use multiple different sorcs for different specializations and use them selectively in content (I don't like this idea--although it is something I do with other classes); or
3) find the "best" specialization and just go with that.

We shall see.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I agree that the specialization direction Turbine is moving in isn't where I'd go, but you do have the option of not using the, there is no need not to go forward at this point.

I suspect the future of update 9 will be Air

Personally I don't understand why wizards and sorcs don't share PrEs.

[fuzzy1guy]

Personally I don't understand why wizards and sorcs don't share PrEs.

Turn in your d&d geek card. You're done.



Seriously tho. The pre lines are idk... They just want to sell every caster a heart of wood?

Maybe the end of the game for me.
My fav class might be useless in whichever half of the content i'm not specced for. Along with the HUGE -9 for the one or two useful spells in the opposing line.
And unspecced isnt looking great either. Not with all the plusses wizards will have.

Might end up not so much a rage quit as a meh quit.

Going to wait and see. But idk. i don't like where this seems to be going.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

I'm taking a wait and see approach.

My "main" is a sorc and I play him as a balanced build (good enough DC's for CC in epic; solid nuking capability; UMD). He is great as a solo build and also can take on the caster role in a group in any of the game content to high effectiveness.

Things I've thought about:

1) don't specialize; or
2) use multiple different sorcs for different specializations and use them selectively in content (I don't like this idea--although it is something I do with other classes); or
3) find the "best" specialization and just go with that.

We shall see.

I'm heavily inclined to take route number 1, your dairy majesty.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Might end up not so much a rage quit as a meh quit.

Going to wait and see. But idk. i don't like where this seems to be going.

lol @ coining "Meh Quit" term which I'm on the same bandwagon :/

And I very much agree with the fact that they somehow completely forgot to check the PBH and realize that Sorcs have minimal amount of feats and cannot change spells in an efficient manner.

@Lorien

Yup. Don't know why they won't let us pick and choose each PrE from either class. I mean yeah in PnP there are reasons, but this game couldn't be any farther to PnP if it tried to, so why hold the line there?

[Quarterling]

Personally I don't understand why wizards and sorcs don't share PrEs.

A sorcerer archmage simply would not make sense. An archmage is one who spends hours upon hours studying magic, treating it as the highest form of art, referring to it as "The Art". A sorcerer cares less about reading books and prefers to use their innate raw power. This also goes along with their respective ability scores, intelligence for wizards and charisma for sorcerers. Here are some example stereotypes.

A high intelligence wizard is seen as a bookworm.

A high charisma wizard could be vain (mr. pretty-boy who cares about himself) and wants nothing to do with all the hard work of studying books to learn spells.

Because the wizard and sorcerers have completely different mindsets, it would make no sense for them to have the same PrEs.

[sephiroth1084]

Looks to me like the best bet would be to go Earth or Air spec for a big boost with one of those and no penalty to the other spells you'd want to be using otherwise. If Acid Fog or Rain got improved at all, they'd be pretty compelling to use in place of firewall, as, with the 15 point reduction in resistance, they'd be working in more places than firewall does.

Or you have Chain Lightning, which is on par with DBF and Polar Ray (mostly) except that it does full damage vs. most of the content we run. Plus, it comes with Abundant Step/Wings for an arcane caster.

[Angelus_dead]

A sorcerer archmage simply would not make sense. An archmage is one who spends hours upon hours studying magic, treating it as the highest form of art, referring to it as "The Art". A sorcerer cares less about reading books and prefers to use their innate raw power.

That is against the definition of "Archmage" in D&D 3.5. It is someone who is very devoted to arcane spellcasting, and the fact that a Sorcerer doesn't spend as much time reading and writing is irrelevant. Sorcerers don't need to read a lot to learn arcane magic, so the fact that they read less doesn't mean they're not working at it.

In fact, someone who does a lot of paperwork and repetitive memorization could be said to in some way less attuned to "The Art" of magic.

[Draccus]

So, you are in fact forcing players to either TRing or LRing at the very least just so that we can take advantage of any one given line of focus.

That's the point. Sorc PrE = $

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

That's the point. Sorc PrE = $

I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and to think that the PrEs weren't thought out properly and rushed for update 9, but it seems to me that more and more Turbine is developing game mechanics with the cash store in mind

[TheHolyDarkness]

Now why the hell would you need to LR? This would require a feat swap and that's it.

3 days per spell swap flys by when you have multiple toons to be playing anyway.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Now why the hell would you need to LR? This would require a feat swap and that's it.

3 days per spell swap flys by when you have multiple toons to be playing anyway.

Good luck with that.

[yawumpus]

Turn in your d&d geek card. You're done.

Some of us don't need little kids telling us how to play our new-fangled magic users.