DDO Casters Can't Kite (but I still love you)

[SkullJug]

If your going to get upset at me about this please search my username and look at my previous post (ages ago) about melee's helping out the casters.

A hell of a lot of DDO casters, especially nukers, especially at mid-level, have no sense of strategy in some respects. The following is elementary in any mmo I've ever played.

1. Kite towards the melees! They are swinging their hearts out, run straight through them, put the mob within striking range, and there's a good chance they'll just take the agro. Once they get it, don't throw a spell and take agro again and run away.

2. Don't spread aggro This is a chronic problem when people get fireball and firewall (hey and what about acid blast? I'd love to see some more acid blasts). When me and my sword swinging buddies charge in and you throw a fireball / firewall / aoe spell at them from behind, they charge [/u]you[u]. They run straight past us, so we can (a) turn around and chase them or (b) keep moving and hit their casters, keeping in mind that their melees are now chopping on you. And neither is a good option, because whatever you we do, you are going to run away and we are going to end up chasing them.

Seriously, on nearly every quest I end up running after an AI melee who is running after a caster.

3. Shoot at ME! If you wait, me and the other sword swingers will charge in and hit the melees who will barely have time to move before we're wailing on them. We take two steps and we're into their casters WITH their melees grouped up. Time for Fireball/Firewall/AOE. NUKE EM. If it's a trash mob, wait. If we aren't taking any damage, don't throw it. Wait til we need you and make it a NUKE. Maximise it, Empower it, get gear whatever you need to do it. Whatever you throw should clear the room, and it will, if you wait.

[ColdNapalm]

Am I honestly the only caster that runs to a melee with aggro and just block next to them?!? With buffs up, you should be okay for the few seconds to have the melee pull the aggro off. Otherwise, you build your caster too squishy.

On a side note...if I cast a firewall/icestorm...that is where the melee should STAY until everything is dead. I hate tossing a firewall and the melee goes running off 3 feet away out of the range of the firewall to start their pounding. If they are going after a painful archer or caster I can see that...but no, they wanna step away from the firewall so...I have no idea why....

[stille_nacht]

happens really commonly actually, whoever you are playing with is doing it wrong. Many casters either A; kite in and out of fw, or B: kite towards melee

not many shield block in my experience tho

[arcticwolf666]

Am I honestly the only caster that runs to a melee with aggro and just block next to them?!? With buffs up, you should be okay for the few seconds to have the melee pull the aggro off. Otherwise, you build your caster too squishy.

On a side note...if I cast a firewall/icestorm...that is where the melee should STAY until everything is dead. I hate tossing a firewall and the melee goes running off 3 feet away out of the range of the firewall to start their pounding. If they are going after a painful archer or caster I can see that...but no, they wanna step away from the firewall so...I have no idea why....

QFT! WF arcanes with high Con and repair spells can easily block, heal and allow the melee to grab aggro.

[heyytoi]

If your going to get upset at me about this please search my username and look at my previous post (ages ago) about melee's helping out the casters.

A hell of a lot of DDO casters, especially nukers, especially at mid-level, have no sense of strategy in some respects. The following is elementary in any mmo I've ever played.

1. Kite towards the melees! They are swinging their hearts out, run straight through them, put the mob within striking range, and there's a good chance they'll just take the agro. Once they get it, don't throw a spell and take agro again and run away.

2. Don't spread aggro This is a chronic problem when people get fireball and firewall (hey and what about acid blast? I'd love to see some more acid blasts). When me and my sword swinging buddies charge in and you throw a fireball / firewall / aoe spell at them from behind, they charge [/u]you[u]. They run straight past us, so we can (a) turn around and chase them or (b) keep moving and hit their casters, keeping in mind that their melees are now chopping on you. And neither is a good option, because whatever you we do, you are going to run away and we are going to end up chasing them.

Seriously, on nearly every quest I end up running after an AI melee who is running after a caster.

3. Shoot at ME! If you wait, me and the other sword swingers will charge in and hit the melees who will barely have time to move before we're wailing on them. We take two steps and we're into their casters WITH their melees grouped up. Time for Fireball/Firewall/AOE. NUKE EM. If it's a trash mob, wait. If we aren't taking any damage, don't throw it. Wait til we need you and make it a NUKE. Maximise it, Empower it, get gear whatever you need to do it. Whatever you throw should clear the room, and it will, if you wait.

So you can steal my kills???

AH!! Good one.

[Ashbinder]

Meh. I cast a firewall in the biggest bunch of mobs I can find. If the melee goes and chases something off into a corner, I Finger it to remind them that 1: they should fight in the firewall, and 2: I brought them as boss beaters, not crowd control.

[SkullJug]

Meh. I cast a firewall in the biggest bunch of mobs I can find. If the melee goes and chases something off into a corner, I Finger it to remind them that 1: they should fight in the firewall, and 2: I brought them as boss beaters, not crowd control.

Pay attention people - that is how you troll.

[Ashbinder]

Heh, you might question my methods, but you can't dispute my results.

[voodoogroves]

Nothing drives me more batty in the Cove when I'm cooking some boss (like Jack) in a wall of fire and instead of running the line and keeping it clear, people want to jump on.

And the dude dancing in the wall of fire? LEAVE HIM, he's toast.



I actually stopped using my wizard and am using my sorc more to farm the event because he's got intimidate.


OP: Sorry about your experience; I will disagree and tell you that once the arcanes get wall of fire and once the divines get blade barrier, they can absolutely control aggro and the flow of battle across multiple targets much more easily than a melee dude. That's leading w/ the wall of fire or blade barrier ... and against your point #3 ... but your other points are even more valid. The caster needs to know what they are doing and keep the critters cooking, kiting and being hit by the melee if you want it done fast.

A bad arcane is like a bad archer though; makes everyone chase and eventually pick up their soulstone.

[SkullJug]

So you can steal my kills???

AH!! Good one.

And therein of course, lies the problem.


Oh and I agree about people not fighting in firewalls, it's nuts. I would personally never leave their sweet embrace if didn't have to.

Give me a haste long enough and a firm firewall on which to stand and I will move the earth

[Deathlos]

Im one of the ones that stand in the firewall(s) and just block, wishing my tanks had enough intimi to get em off me,
This is done better if the caster is WF so he can heal himself.

And later levels a good caster is all about CC and insta-kills, so dont worry.

[Paleus]

This type of advice of course goes both ways

Imaginary Caster Response:

1) Stand in the firewall or don't chase mobs out of it. - For some reason while goofing around in the cove I sometimes pugged with melees that must have thought having undead roasting in firewall was a bad idea and did their darnedest to push and drag them out of it.

2) Beat on the mobs that haven't been neutralized. - If you see two mobs, one which the caster neutralized with otto's irresistable dance and the other still moving, which should you attack first? If you said the still moving one then you are apparently not playing with the same playbook I saw others using.

3) Friends that play together win together. - If you want an area of affect buff have the decency to be moving with the group instead of off by yourself. The needs of five different people wanting haste is better met when those people are together instead of each needing five individual casts.

Anyway, this isnt to neg on your list, I think its just both sides of many pugs, melees and casters, are still playing like they will somehow win DDO by having highest unassisted kill count as opposed to moving as a swarm ganking mobs together.

PS: Above post about FOD-kills ftw. As many of you melees have long suspected, arcanes are actually usually just sitting around doing nothing as they wait until they see you pull a mob's health down to about a quarter. That's when they finger it.

[varusso]

If your going to get upset at me about this please search my username and look at my previous post (ages ago) about melee's helping out the casters.

A hell of a lot of DDO casters, especially nukers, especially at mid-level, have no sense of strategy in some respects. The following is elementary in any mmo I've ever played.

1. Kite towards the melees! They are swinging their hearts out, run straight through them, put the mob within striking range, and there's a good chance they'll just take the agro. Once they get it, don't throw a spell and take agro again and run away.

2. Don't spread aggro This is a chronic problem when people get fireball and firewall (hey and what about acid blast? I'd love to see some more acid blasts). When me and my sword swinging buddies charge in and you throw a fireball / firewall / aoe spell at them from behind, they charge [/u]you[u]. They run straight past us, so we can (a) turn around and chase them or (b) keep moving and hit their casters, keeping in mind that their melees are now chopping on you. And neither is a good option, because whatever you we do, you are going to run away and we are going to end up chasing them.

Seriously, on nearly every quest I end up running after an AI melee who is running after a caster.

3. Shoot at ME! If you wait, me and the other sword swingers will charge in and hit the melees who will barely have time to move before we're wailing on them. We take two steps and we're into their casters WITH their melees grouped up. Time for Fireball/Firewall/AOE. NUKE EM. If it's a trash mob, wait. If we aren't taking any damage, don't throw it. Wait til we need you and make it a NUKE. Maximise it, Empower it, get gear whatever you need to do it. Whatever you throw should clear the room, and it will, if you wait.

You know, if you melees would quit charging in, we could charm one of the mobs BEFORE they aggro you, resulting in all of the nearby mobs immediately aggroing THAT mob, grouping up nicely for a web/mass hold/etc, followed by auto-crits by the meless, and a nicely placed firewall/ice storm, resulting in alot of dead mobs and ZERO healing on the party....and maybe one charmed mob remaining to be released and ***pwnt.

If you chase a mob that is being kited, you are a fool. 'If you kite it, you fight it.' I laugh my ass off watching a group of melees that insist on chasing a bunch of melee mobs i am kiting through my firewalls, instead of letting me handle it. Go kill the casters and archers that WONT chase me. They stand still, making them ideal food for melees. Or pick one of the mobs that is stuck in my web...or one of the ones i nicely held for you.

There are casters in this game that need a serious education in the 'right' way to aggro-kite mobs. But there are even MORE melees who need it.

[Westerner]

Tips for Melees Annoyed by Kiting Casters:

1) Stand still in the Firewall/Webs/Glitterdust/Ice Storm/Dancing Ball. Advanced melees can try forming a line.

2) Wait for caster to bring you the melee mobs.

3) Beat and be happy.

[Impaqt]

If your going to get upset at me about this please search my username and look at my previous post (ages ago) about melee's helping out the casters.

A hell of a lot of DDO casters, especially nukers, especially at mid-level, have no sense of strategy in some respects. The following is elementary in any mmo I've ever played.

1. Kite towards the melees! They are swinging their hearts out, run straight through them, put the mob within striking range, and there's a good chance they'll just take the agro. Once they get it, don't throw a spell and take agro again and run away.

2. Don't spread aggro This is a chronic problem when people get fireball and firewall (hey and what about acid blast? I'd love to see some more acid blasts). When me and my sword swinging buddies charge in and you throw a fireball / firewall / aoe spell at them from behind, they charge [/u]you[u]. They run straight past us, so we can (a) turn around and chase them or (b) keep moving and hit their casters, keeping in mind that their melees are now chopping on you. And neither is a good option, because whatever you we do, you are going to run away and we are going to end up chasing them.

Seriously, on nearly every quest I end up running after an AI melee who is running after a caster.

3. Shoot at ME! If you wait, me and the other sword swingers will charge in and hit the melees who will barely have time to move before we're wailing on them. We take two steps and we're into their casters WITH their melees grouped up. Time for Fireball/Firewall/AOE. NUKE EM. If it's a trash mob, wait. If we aren't taking any damage, don't throw it. Wait til we need you and make it a NUKE. Maximise it, Empower it, get gear whatever you need to do it. Whatever you throw should clear the room, and it will, if you wait.

Stop chasing them. Let them Die. Its the only way they will learn.

[Alerax]

Stuck at work, nothing to do, DDO Forums, lol.

I melee, I Rogue. I stand in a FW and wish that that caster would stop kiting that mob around a mile and a half circle with 3 FW spaced all over hell and back.

on the other hand, ive seen the Melees make a mess out of perfect set ups.

tbh always a good laugh when you hear things like...

*Ding* "-***..." - Melee

"there were 5 FW right here, why you in a corner dead?" - Arcane

"ffs, im not your wet nurse..." - Poor Cleric XD

Melees agree, FW is a good thing and wont leave marks on your new outfits.
Arcanes agree, Melees are dumb

LOL, sorry, my 2cp

[Hendrik]

Stop chasing them. Let them Die. Its the only way they will learn.

Lots of aggro + Diplo = hillarity for me.

[varusso]

Stop chasing them. Let them Die. Its the only way they will learn.

Thats just silly. There is nothing for them to 'learn'. At mid levels this IS the correct tactic for a mage. Drop firewall (2 in an X pattern for large groups) and do your best Benny Hill imitation, kiting them around in the 'wings' of the firewall(s). Melees stand in the center and just swing--dont bother targeting, just hold attack. Whatever runs in front of you trying to catch the mage, you will hit. If there are casters/archers that are NOT in the firewall and NOT chasing the mage, go beat on them. If the mages is really smart, there is a web in those firewalls, holding some of the mobs still. You can also go beat on them. This also avoids the whole issue another poster described, with the mage dropping a bunch of FWs and kiting the mobs halfway across the zone and back--not to mention its a waste of SP

All in all, I would personally rather rage/haste, drop a charm/web, and let the melees pwn stuff. But when firewalls are called for, or speed up the process, its silly to complain about the mage doing their job.

[MindCake]

Stop chasing them. Let them Die. Its the only way they will learn.

*confused* but Mobs don't learn, they die and are replaced with new ones...

j/k. I know you meant the arcane will die and learn. But my experience is sorta different, namely: if there is an arcane kiting a bunch of mobs around a firewall, the mobs are about to die - if the caster has aggro, it means they're not immune, so they're getting damaged every 2 seconds.
Since the caster is running with exp.retreat or haste and jumping, the mobs will likely only score a handful of hits. In fact, enemy archers are the most annoying, go kill them (unless they're in the FW too).

I'm not convinced by the proposed tactic of shield blocking in the middle. I mean, arcane's AC won't do a thing anyways, a bit of DR added to stone skin will help at first, but with the mobs walloping on them, they'll soon lose that stone skin, aid, false life and the other temporary HP they may have.

TBH, I haven't actually tried that, and when a cleric requested my wizard to do just that, I said "Okay.", but then the rest of the party protested I should continue doing what I was doing, so, welp, I never actually tried it.


Anyways, I'm sure there arcanes out there that are bad at kiting. But I'd say melees are much worse. I'm quite sure this is correct at least in 7-mid teens level range. Srsly, most of the time they seem hell bent on keeping the mobs AWAY from the FW. I'm really sad when my ranger/rogue is the only one in the party luring stuff into the fire and combining forces to bring individual targets down faster. And it happens more often than not.

[Sarisa]

I'm not convinced by the proposed tactic of shield blocking in the middle. I mean, arcane's AC won't do a thing anyways, a bit of DR added to stone skin will help at first, but with the mobs walloping on them, they'll soon lose that stone skin, aid, false life and the other temporary HP they may have.

Works fine up through hard Vale. I was taking 0-2 damage per hit with a Skyvault (which isn't even that much DR) against most mobs.