Barbarian cap or 2 fighter

[Caged]

Hello, I'm lvling a barbarian and was wondering if I should go for the capstone or split 2 fighter:

Capstone:
+2 to str
"+10% glancing blow damage and 5% chance of applying special weapon effects on glancing blows."

2 Fighter:
7 haste boost uses
2 feats
+1 to str
+1 to trip/stun and w.e
critical accuracy is ~ok

Unless I'm missing something it would seem to be better to splash fighter....

[theRolf]

The haste boost alone is worth it

[die]

barb all the way for the win IMO.. but people who think for them selves tend too be happy. Good luck in what ever you choose

[trashstack]

Fighter splash is -3 str actually since it loses mighty rage too... As for whether it's effectively a -1 or a -2 loss on modifier... really depends. I tend to take it as a -2 since there are so many ways to even out str.

I use my own dps calc, based on Vanshilar's attack speed index... The estimation is when perma hasted, on a thf fighter splash is superior to pure by ~3% with haste boost (counting in cooldowns, not counting in activation lag). But out of boosts, pure is superior to splash by ~5%.

If you don't trust my calcs, you can use A-O's. Maybe splash gets better dps on that. My belief is it's mostly a wash.

[Shade]

Check out my definitive guide for a full review on all the good splashs.

Here is the relevant bits tho:

Pros:
+2 free feats. Massive benefit.
Fighter Haste boost I Enhancement. Minor Benefit. Compared to Barbarian Damage Boost IV - this sometim provides a very small amount of a higher increase to DPS for the 20 seconds while it's active. And unfortunately you cannot activate both at the exact same time - there's enough of a delay that it's just annoying and mostly not worth it. So you pick one of the other. Damage boost for times your doing auto crits for bigger crits, or haste boost for general DPS. It's also just plain more fun to attack faster in DDO. And you can ofcourse statrt using these after your damage boosts have expired in very long quests.
Fighter Str 1 - You actually take a net loss in strength by doing this multiclass, a total loss of 3 strength with this 1 action point spent.
Fighter Stunning blow 1 - +1 DC to stuns, really not a +1 total increase for Dwarf/WF being that taking all 4 stun increase is very expensive in AP and generally not worth it, so think of it more as a way to save a few AP (It's 1 AP, while Dwarf/WF Tactics 3 is 6 AP) if you select one of those races.
Fighter Trip and Sunder also available, but generally not recommended except for builds specificly built towards maximum combat feat DCs

Cons:
-24 hitpoints at endgame (-4 from class, -20 from -2 con of mighty rage)
-No capstone. Capstone is: "Might", Grants +2 strength and now correctly grants +10% glancing blow weapon damage and 5% chance to produce special weapon effects in addition to its +2 Strength bonus. (A half-orc or warforged barbarian with all three THF feats, Great Weapon Aptitude, and Might will have deal 60% weapon damage with their glancing blows, with a 20% chance to produce special weapon effects). This is a significant loss for THF characters.
-No Mighty Rage. This means -2 strength and -2 con. (Overall loss of stats if you took Fighter Str 1 is -3 strength -2 con)
-Lower Rage duration. Since mighty rages +2 con applies to your rage duration, you lose a short amount.
-1 less Rage per rest.
-1 less point of damage reduction.
-1 less saves versus traps.
-1 less use of improved uncanny dodge (provides +6 to your reflex saves for 30 seconds)
-4 skill points total. (2 less per level)

So no.. haste boost I is not a big value. Sure it's fun to attack faster. But the overall difference between is vs dmg boost IV? Very little. Check out my dps challenge where I make great use of dmg boost iv for a demonstration on how to use it effectively mid fight also. Now you could use both in very very long fights where one of the other runs out, but thats not a huge benefit either. You also mention having 7 total boosts, which means you must of taken some action boost ap, and be less likely to run out.

You also cant just have haste boost I for free, its 1 ap, while dmg boost IV is required to have for frenzy berserker. So you have to consider what that 1 AP gets you for being pure.

Other notes:
You say +1 to trip/stun dc on ftr end, thats actaully wrong. You get a lower trip/stun dc, due to the neg loss of str.

Crit accuracy? huge waste of action points. No benefit to even ungeared barb 99% of the time. No benefit at all to any barb with a seeker item 100% of the time.

Pure is signfiicantly better DPS then splash. Unless your gaining a feat that significantly ups DPS by using the splash.

[Detrittius]

I think both builds are good and you should decide what you like best.
the fighter splash enables you to get toughness and stunning blow. although you dont need toughness it's good to have it, especially when you wanna tank horoth.

also you should think about what you do most.. if you don't do epic's you dont need stunning blow and can go pure with toughness imo (or take quick draw which leads to the second point).
do you often use ur boost and try to max out all u can?
if the answer is yes i'd say go for the splash since the haste boost is slightly better than the damage and you will get a more versatile build.
If u dont you will have a higher dps with pure since it got more damage without using boosts.

[zex95966]

I would splash, if done correctly you get 2 free feats of anything you like, since you'll be taking enough class feats either way.

much better imo than a little loss of dps... which is negligible. unless your fighting high health portals that don't fight back.

[lopkon]

I wouldn't say any of the two possibilities is 'better'. They are different.

The 2 Fighter extra Feats allow usage of Barb active PL, Toughness and Stunning Blow. Without a question Haste Boost is nice, but Haste Boost I is a bit overrated it is hard to justify it against +10% Glancing Blow + 3 STR + Damage Boost IV, at least for THF. The higher DC's just like the higher STR are better covered by the Barbarian. Crit Accuracy is useless to a very high degree, it's not like you have problems hitting, so you won't have problems to confirm your criticals, especially if you have Seeker.

The Barb gets more HP for free (extra Con at lvl 20, +4 more due to lvl), but less overall if you dont take Toughness since you want Stunning Blow.

Personally I run a 20th Barbarian. Not because it's essentially better, but it transfers a better feeling and identity in my opinion.

[unbongwah]

My gut instinct is staying pure is best for DPS (esp. for a THF barb); ftr splash is better if you really want those extra feats (e.g., TWF x3, PA, Cleave, Toughness, Imp Crit Slash, Stunning Blow, khopesh - use hvy picks for held or stunned trash, khopeshes the rest of the time).

[Gnorbert]

The two feats on a non-human barb are very tempting... the rest of the "benefits" of the fighter splash only help to try and catch up to what you lose compared to the capstone.

If there's something extra you are trying to do with your build that you need the feats for then there's definitely no shame in doing the splash.

However, I also sit in the "Pure Barb RAWR" group.

[Khanyth]

*sigh*

I always see this debate come up. And everyone always misses the mark.

As a barb, you go pure 20 to get the capstone.

The logic is simple:

Your biceps will be frequently mistaken for overlarge slabs of ham if you do not.

Forget stats, gear, epics, buffs, DR breakers, GS items, Epic gear, TOD sets and all of that. Forget spreadsheets, videos, numbers, twitching, attack speeds, crits and anything like that. Forget it all. They are lies mixed in with untruths mixed in with disillusions mixed in with heresies mixed in with untruths mixed in with fraudulence, mixed in with perjury mixed with slander, subterfuge, falsification, and fibs. They try to get you away from the truth:

>>>>>Having your biceps be recognized for the overlarge slabs of ham, is the single most important thing to have, come end game<<<<<

This statement is, was, and always will be the gospel truth. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you and trying to deceive you. It simply cannot be overstated and overemphasized just how important this is end game.

It cannot.

Overlarge slabs of ham... it's the only reason to play a barb.

[Kinerd]

A numeric comparison, from A-O/Aaxeyu's spreadsheet, gives the following:

THF
Pure: 506.83 / 410.28 / 313.73
Splash w/o Quickdraw: 498.84 / 401.49 / 304.14
Splash w/ Quickdraw: 518.13 / 417.01 / 315.90

It's all pretty close.

TWF
Pure: 487.05 / 369.32 / 277.79
Splash w/o: 500.73 / 379.46 / 285.55
Splash w/: 520.18 / 394.20 / 296.65

As one would expect, for a build that gets much less from Strength, no glancing blows, and more out of Haste Boost, the splash is significantly more valuable. Still not a huge difference (~6%), though.

[sephiroth1084]

I think the DPS is close enough on both versions for it to be mostly a wash, but the fighter gets the 2 bonus feats, which puts it ahead, in my opinion, unless you have no desire for one of the big 7th slot feats anyway (Toughness, Stunning Blow, Barb PL--until it is "fixed", Quick Draw).

[tgu]

Wouldn't a TWF khopesh 18 Barb/2 Fighter blow out ANY THF build? I can't see how even an eSoS would be able to come close.

I mean look at what the 12/6/2 builds are doing, I think a TWF build should not be ignored. The two fighter levels only enhances this build.

[sephiroth1084]

Wouldn't a TWF khopesh 18 Barb/2 Fighter blow out ANY THF build? I can't see how even an eSoS would be able to come close.

I mean look at what the 12/6/2 builds are doing, I think a TWF build should not be ignored. The two fighter levels only enhances this build.

Look at Kinerd's numbers two posts up. TWF w/ Quickdraw beats THF by a little, but is behind in other configurations.

[Kinerd]

Wouldn't a TWF khopesh 18 Barb/2 Fighter blow out ANY THF build? I can't see how even an eSoS would be able to come close.

I mean look at what the 12/6/2 builds are doing, I think a TWF build should not be ignored. The two fighter levels only enhances this build.

eSoS is that incredible a weapon. Its base critical profile is a 6, compared to a 4 for khopesh or a 3 for falchion. Its base damage is 27.5, compared to a 10.5 for a GS khopesh or a 15.5 for a GS greataxe. It requires the full ridiculousness of the magical effects of green steel for khopeshes to even compete with it. In a sense, it's a really clever job by the developers of balancing two distinct and insane versions of power creep.

Anyway, my thinking is the same as sephiroth's on this. The DPS isn't going to change much, but for those who want it the feat flexibility is a godsend. It's frustrating to me to have all my feats spoken for, so I don't play a pure barbarian. If you don't care about that, then the choice is less clear.