36 points Horc Rogue with Kopeshes

[Lemanchot]

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Larha Croft
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 15
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         12                    15
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    26
Bluff                 0                     6
Concentration         1                     2
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        5                    25
Haggle                4                    23
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                    11
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  8                    27
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                    11
Open Lock             6                    26
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    25
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  9                    21
Tumble                3                    21
Use Magic Device      4                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II

Gear Wise at level 20:
Goggle: GS +45HP
Armor: Epic Vulkorim Fighting Leather
Bracer: Epic Scorched Bracer (green slot filled with thoughness)
Left Ring: TOD Tempest Set with +2 exceptional Cons Enchant
Boots: Madstone Boots
Gloves: Epic Charged Gauntlet
Right Ring: TOD Ravager Set +2 Exceptional strenght
Belt: Ravager Set
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak (green slot filled with heavy fort)
Trinket: T3 Event trinket +2 exceptional seeker with shocking blow/Swapping with spyglass trinket
Neck: TOD Tempest set Neck
Hat: +6 seeker with +15 DD enchant on it

Weapons: Casual T3 GS kopeshes Min2/Lite2/Radiant
Planning to use Epic Chaosblade with Devil Ruin

Edit: Too lazy to swap Opportunist before Defensive roll thank you for not noticing it ^^

[karl_k0ch]

Did you do the damage calc for your Char with past life clickie + rapiers vs. no PL + Khop?

I dont know all of the item stats by heart: Is anyone of these a +7 con item?

[blitzschlag]

I dont know all of the item stats by heart: Is anyone of these a +7 con item?

the epic envenomed cloak.

to squishy for my likings anyway...

[grodon9999]

Not enough threat reduction. Sure you'll be fine if the main tank is a maxed-toon with the claw-set but if it's not you will pull aggro. 20% ain't enough.

[Razcar]

Why put so many build points into Cha and Int? If it's for UMD/Traps I TR:d a HO rogue with 8 Int and have not had any problems with traps (well I blew one in a GH quest, but I didn't have my +15 DD item, Int item or GH on, so that was my own fault for being careless), and UMD has been fine as well.

If it's for Assassinate DC that won't work on Epics anyway. If for getting more skill points you could go for 10 Int which will be 12 with a +2 tome - more than sufficient amount of skill points.

So I would go for 6 Cha, 8 or 10 Int and out the rest into Con.

[vrobel]

drop CHA and INT a bit down and bump CON!

[Lemanchot]

Ok guys, I'll have to do some maths for you since you're only aiming that 12 constitution or threat reduction? (Will follow)

with 15 cons I'm standing at 232 HP at level 20. (Tome ate)

+2 exceptional cons on TOD ring
+7 constitution item (Envenomed cloak)

So here's end calculation and I'll be slow

15cons + 7 cons + 2 exceptional cons = 332HP (Only cons counted)
Thoughness augment crystal on bracer +20HP
Greater False Life on Gloves (Yellow slot)+30HP

382HP
In the end with 16 cons = 422HP
or 14 cons = 402HP
Greensteel Goggle +45HP
Brings a total of 427HP over a 12 cons base rogue.

I like to have some extra mode skill into charisma and int base rogue skill since Skill tree is a huge part of rogue's life.


I love being able to teleport wherever I want to or actually being atleast usefull at traps.

My main reasons are I didnt get any +3 tome for Int/Cha at the moment also there's been alot of questions about STR/Dext user for rogues and weapons to use plus gear wise question. I gave my opinion without showing any example. I finally decided to do a post about an "Ultimate Skilled Surgereon".

To answer question about threat reductio Junk.
You're right this build might bring some threat issue (commonly known as aggro).

First of All, I almost play with the same players who are geared.
Then, there's Hroth/Suulomades(VOD/TOD)/Demon's Den(Epic Deep) a rogue must be away to take aggro.

And most of these encounters I done these with some specific people. I always feel it anyway when I'm about to drop aggro. Sometimes I just do it to embarass the main tank (Echrono Fight/Neftir 2nd boss in TOD). Other than that I control my numbers and I stay back by some period if needed. (Due to the lack of tanking)

My enhancement choices can be resettable or since I don't have a +4 STR tome I could always take off -1 STR rank(Orc racial) which you probably didn't see my STR wasn't an even number.

In the End to me Threat Reduction is more about your play style then "Stats". I would not wear gloves of the claw because that means I'd have to tank deeply into threat reduction tree. Which I wanna avoid.

But the +3 Profane Bonus from Abishai (And natural AC of course) stacks with Madstonex2.

[Lemanchot]

Also I'd like to notice the next change DDO are bringing to Diplomacy and Buff. Which I probably bring into my game. I know I didn't boost any of these skills in the present build but it will surely. There's an another good reason why keep charima at 11!

[grodon9999]

I still think you should work in the THarnes set for 20% more Threat reduction, either on a DT rune or the bracers. Consider the DPS you lose when you pull aggro compared to what you gain by not wearing the tharnes set.

That or only run in raids with Nightmare or Meathelmet tanking

[kernal42]

Ok guys, I'll have to do some maths for you since you're only aiming that 12 constitution or threat reduction? (Will follow)

with 15 cons I'm standing at 232 HP at level 20. (Tome ate)

One of my yellow slots item will be fill with a +1 exceptional cons.
An another with a +2 exceptional cons.
+3 Cons tome (already owning one)

so a +6 exceptional cons
With a +7 constitution item (Envenomed cloak)

So here's end calculation and I'll be slow

15cons + 7 cons + 6 exceptional cons = 372HP (Only cons counted)

You just double-counted your +3 con tome, which brings your level 20 hp down by 40.

-Kernal

[brzytki]

First, ditch Defensive Roll. I don't think u know how it works or how it doesn't work in most cases :P
You are going for str-based 36pt with khopheses and only 20% threat reduction? My dex-based TR using rapiers who had 12 starting str (shhhh :P) had 52% and still i constantly pulled agro in all pugs and some static groups. If u have to pike for half a min to make sure u won't pull aggro off the boss in next minute or two, i'd rather take someone else in my group.

What Junk said, put some more APs in SB line and try to put Tharnes in your gear setup.

[Razcar]

I love being able to teleport wherever I want to or actually being atleast usefull at traps.

You can do traps all day and teleport until you get a nosebleed if you start with 8 Int and 6 Cha. You see, there are thresholds you need to reach for traps and UMD, and when you have reached them anything invested above those thresholds is a waste.

HP on the other hand there is no threshold for. Especially if you can get extra HP for no cost.

Second, you should consider laying of some of that cheek. Or don't ask for advice if you do not have sufficient self-confidence to be able to take it without becoming defensive.

[Lemanchot]

I still think you should work in the THarnes set for 20% more Threat reduction, either on a DT rune or the bracers. Consider the DPS you lose when you pull aggro compared to what you gain by not wearing the tharnes set.

That or only run in raids with Nightmare or Meathelmet tanking

Tharne's would make me bail on 45 HP Goggles and most sweet bonuses from tharne's are corvered with Epic Vulkorim Fighting Leahter which is way better than any DT armor.

If you were speaking about about trash mobs being held or not Radiance weapons are there for a reason! Blind mobs takes sneak damage.

As for referring to of your guildmate they're quite skilled players and I enjoy to play with them. Even though they're not the only ones able to tank in your guild (Because Pantilly is an outstanding player). I could name a few others I'm playing with but it wasn't my point and it drives it into a personnal case. Which here I'm trying to speak by facts and experience encountered into my life time play.

You just double-counted your +3 con tome, which brings your level 20 hp down by 40.

-Kernal

That is true and it's fixed with the addition of GS HP Goggle(I totally forgot to mention these in last post).

So I could add... 422 HP + 45 HP = 427 HP.

First, ditch Defensive Roll. I don't think u know how it works or how it doesn't work in most cases :P
You are going for str-based 36pt with khopheses and only 20% threat reduction? My dex-based TR using rapiers who had 12 starting str (shhhh :P) had 52% and still i constantly pulled agro in all pugs and some static groups. If u have to pike for half a min to make sure u won't pull aggro off the boss in next minute or two, i'd rather take someone else in my group.

What Junk said, put some more APs in SB line and try to put Tharnes in your gear setup.

Kyoril I got a great respect for you man. You're playing your rogue by the way you feel and I respect that. I'm not sure to what type of you're referring to. Is that on a lvl'ing purpose? No need to say we already been questing together and my actual build (which is kinda similar to this one) barely drops the aggro of oustanding tanks. And Even if I do have the aggro by example in EVON6 me VS a Djinn I can still tank him and Damaging him without any troubles.

Yes sometimes like TOD with hate tank... I tend to wait after all the DPS gets on him before I launch Larha. But I still bring so much DPS the time is kinda futile at this point. Plus usually we kill suulomades so... I still have headroom on hate threat aggro. Since the switch makes it easier.

Thanks you for your comment. I didn't mention anything about defensive roll because I will not change my mind over it! I like it what can I say!

[brzytki]

Sorry for my earlier post, I re-read it and admit it sounds a bit aggresive :P

I'm curious, do you see Defensive Roll going off often? Cause when i had it on my 1st life i can say it sometimes saved me, but then i was dex-based so my reflex save was around 40 without buffs, so i won 1/2 of rolls.

Let's say u have 450hp, reflex 12+8+1+2+4+6+5=38 (rogue, dex mod, ship, GL, GH, uncanny, res item). So you have 38% chance of getting half damage when below 90hp. It doesn't sound appealing to me.

[samdsherman]

this build is absolutely insane, any rogue should max con before putting any points into int or cha.

[brzytki]

this build is absolutely insane, any rogue should max con before putting any points into int or cha.

With the right gear it's gonna suffice, i run with 407hp and i'm perfectly fine, granted there are no jumpy kobolds from evon 1 around

And Larha, i just noticed u have a passive barb past life listed, it's +10hp more, tho i don't know if it's counted in those 232hp or not.

[kernal42]

Yes sometimes like TOD with hate tank... I tend to wait after all the DPS gets on him before I launch Larha.

For any situation in which you're doing less than absolute-balls-out-max-dps for fear of taking aggro, the subtle backstabbing line gives you more dps than any other enhancement you can possibly spend AP on.

Your dps vs these bosses will increase if you take subtle backstabbing instead of the horc str line, or instead of assassinIII, or instead of anything else.

You should really reconsider taking more of the subtle backstabbing line or fitting in more hate reduction to your gear setup.

Cheers,
Kernal

[samdsherman]

With the right gear it's gonna suffice, i run with 407hp and i'm perfectly fine, granted there are no jumpy kobolds from evon 1 around

And Larha, i just noticed u have a passive barb past life listed, it's +10hp more, tho i don't know if it's counted in those 232hp or not.

tehres no such thing as sufficient hp. his dd, search, and umd, however, WILL be sufficient.

[stoolcannon]

I heard somewhere that this very same build on a first life non horc is capable of dying 5 times in Von5 normal.

[brzytki]

Ok, let me say it differently: with my standing 407hp i hardly ever:
1) was one-shotted
2) was the first one to get killed when facing a wipe
3) didn't have enough time to heal-scroll myself
and the list could go on.

For me there isn't much of a difference between having 407hp and 447hp since i don't solo much. That being said i agree that with Larha's threat reduction it might be harder for him to stay alive when he pulls aggro. Hence Defensive Roll? :P