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  1. #81
    Hatchery Hero Dark_Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordyTwo View Post
    In my ongoing effort to gather and present information for newer DDO players with lingering questions, the Character Stat 101 guide has been published today.

    Constructive feedback and criticism is encouraged! I'd love to hear feedback from you (the community!) on information that's potentially missing from this guide, or that you feel could be presented in a better manner.
    Nice start.

    How about:
    Unlike the real game we have licensed, having a 0 con doesn't kill you. All you get is a little bit stunned and then you are on your way. a 0 mental stat let you run around like a chicken with your head cut off, but you can't cast or drink a potion.

    So make sure to ignore everything you learned from the SRD:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Ability Score Loss
    Some attacks reduce the opponent’s score in one or more abilities. This loss can be temporary (ability damage) or permanent (ability drain).

    While any loss is debilitating, losing all points in an ability score can be devastating.

    •Strength 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He lies helpless on the ground.
    •Dexterity 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless.
    •Constitution 0 means that the character is dead.
    •Intelligence 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma-like stupor, helpless.
    •Wisdom 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless.
    •Charisma 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma-like stupor, helpless.
    Oh, that's easy. I didn't farm them. I just cheated. -Meghan
    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    lol, I didnt give it a QA pass.

  2. #82
    Stormreach Advisor
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    A few small points (quotes are from the guide):
    Every rank offers up some Action Points
    This is incorrect. Suggestion: "The first four ranks of each level grant you one extra Action Point." (maybe add: "(while reaching the fifth rank allows you to level up)").

    Don’t forget that some classes get extra ones beyond what is shown in the chart!
    Replace "ones" by "feats".

    Intelligence (...) affects (...) the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.
    Replace "the amount of bonus spell points" by "the effectiveness of offensive spells and the amount of spell points" (I don't think "bonus" is helpful here, although it's no big deal to keep it either).
    Same remark for Wisdom & Charisma.

    A feat is used to (...) grant you the ability to use specials (...) skills.
    (...)
    Enhancements (...) can unlock special abilities
    Using "skills" and "abilities" in these sentences may be potentially confusing, because they do not refer to the same thing as "skills" and "abilities" defined in the rest of the text.
    I can't find a better suggestion right now, but ideally there would exist a word you could use here that would prevent such confusion...

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeblood View Post
    if your con is only a base 10 ...you have dumped it

    on the other hand ...at least your trying to do the right thing
    Yeah 10 is dumping con and many new people reading this may take that as meaning put my con to 10 , think that is worse than not mentioning it at all .

    Put at minimum 6 build points into con is the rule I like best

  4. #84
    Community Member amethystdragon's Avatar
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    I first want to say that I really like what you are doing, and wish that something like this had been more readily available when I had started to play.

    I have a suggestion for the Enhancement section. Please, Please, Please point out exactly how many AP that everyone gets per level. Earlier when you say that you rank up 5 times per level, and get an AP at each rank up is misleading. Saying something more a long the lines of "Each level is divided into five ranks. On the first four ranks you will earn an Action Point, that can be spent of Enhancements, and upon reaching the fifth rank you level up." might be a bit more clear.

    I also agree with other posters who have said, that you should explain that it is for every two points that are put into a stat that they will get an increase into what ever benefits that stat gives you.
    Your complaint has been lodged, duly noted, and swiftly rejected.

    Sometimes you just have to laugh, because everything else is illegal.

  5. #85
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirea View Post
    Wow, I can't believe that there are people in this thread that think that telling new players that Constitution is an important stat to all classes is a bad thing.

    I would think that trying to help new players increase their survivability would be an invaluable piece of advice.

    But then again, I must only think that because I'm an "evil zerger powergamer", right?
    There is a difference between when the "evil zerger powergamer" tells someone how to build their char, and when Turbine tells someone how to build their char.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  6. #86
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    If I were into giving rep I'd give you a +1. You get "it" -- in this case the it being that powergamers dictate how DDO is being developed and played.

    It is unfortunately true. But the entire 101 could be replaced by the official build thread and the 20 or so "approved" powergamer builds. Could even make it easier by not even allowing players to play anything else.

    Save us all a lot of trouble.

    Or....

    We could accept that DDO is D&D based and that the freedom to make choices is part of the appeal of the game. We could understand that our purpose is not to tell people what must be done but to tell them what can and probably will happen when specific things are done.

    As I pointed out, a low CON character might solo very well. It might perform poorly when grouping, though, because of a change in tactics. Brute force is the standard group tactic and low CON doesn't perform well in that situation. So, a perfectly playable character might become unplayable grouping.

    If this is explained to a new player then they'll be able to make an informed decision about CON.

    This applies to any stat.

    The 101 would be better if it advocated understanding and focused on the pluses and minuses of each stat decision.
    The times that I wish I had a whole lot more HP, is when I'm doing certain raids and I have to use the tactics that other players tell me to use, and do not have the freedom to play the way I need to to survive with less HP. (or like in Tor, when my Wizard was told to go **** off that Dragon with a Firewall and stand in his mouth until he dies! )

    No quest or raid ever came with an instruction manual from the Devs telling us which tactics to use to finish it. It was the players who decided how to go about it. And in many cases it was the players with the most HP and mana pots who made those decisions.

    In dungeons where I'm allowed to use my own tactics, I can usually find an alternative to enduring damage until completion.

    But now we have the "official" Turbine opinion about how chars should be designed to play the game.

    When I have given build advice, I have always phrased my sugestions as "most players recommend a high Con" or "find it easier to play with a high Con"... something like that.

    In D&D a stat of 10 was considered an average human stat in that area. It might be common for combat adventurers to be above average in physical stats, and below average in non-physical stats. (the average villager is a little smarter, wiser and more likable than guys who live by the sword and chase treasure to make a living)
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  7. #87
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgun View Post
    I've never seen someone give this advice. Could you maybe find a couple examples of it?
    You are right, they do not give that specific advice. But it is common to brag about their HPs, with numbers that I do not believe they can get with only a 14 Con.

    And the advice for arcanes is max casting stat first, max Con second and dump everything else.

    Some people give similar advice for melees for Str first, Con second, dump verything else unless you need a prereq. (monks and Pallies might be an exception.)
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  8. #88
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    You are right, they do not give that specific advice. But it is common to brag about their HPs, with numbers that I do not believe they can get with only a 14 Con.
    I'm pretty sure they're not putting levelups in CON, either. 18 base CON makes sense for most Casters, and some Barbs, and Fighters, though. Not much else to do with those stat points.

    And the advice for arcanes is max casting stat first, max Con second and dump everything else.

    Some people give similar advice for melees for Str first, Con second, dump verything else unless you need a prereq. (monks and Pallies might be an exception.)
    Both solid advice.

  9. #89
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    You make some good, well spoken points. In particular, I agree that the way to get new players to build better characters is to explain to them what decisions they're making at character creation, which are easily reversible and which require a re-roll (or LR) to fix. Letting them make decisions, even mistakes, is fine. Explaining the long-term repercussions of those decisions is better.

    But I disagree with some of your assumptions:
    1) A new player will know enough to build towards a 70 AC, but not enough to know that past vale it will still be virtually worthless, or pros and cons of HP (to speak nothing of "grazing hits", damage that bypasses AC, etc)

    2) 16 dex for a halfling is 6 points, the 17th is only 2 more, not 3.

    3) You would get recommendations to put level-ups in strength, rather than to not attempt an AC build rogue splash monk on 28 points as a first character.

    4) For that build, after advising against it completely, I'd propose 13STR (power attack)/17 dex GTWF/14 con (HPs)/13 int (CE)/12 wis (AC)...

    -about that advising against it completely: a rogue doesn't need all that much AC, the goal is to not have agro, if you do have agro, you're better also have the enemies blinded, so that you get your sneak attacks, if the enemies are blinded they've got a 50% miss chance already (effectively AC=monsterAB+10). If you're not getting sneak attacks, you might as well be playing a rogue splashed ranger or fighter.

    -By the way, did you forget the significant gear dependency that 70 AC build has? It's not a new player build in any case.

    In the end, I don't think that the compendium is going to reach enough people, or impart enough knowledge to make a significant difference, and for any specific build, the boards are (or at least were, but that's a whole other soap box) a better place to get build advice than this has any hope of being.

    As far as this compendium entry goes, maybe a better entry would be:

    Constitution: This Ability Score affects your hit points gained per level, your fortitude saves, and the availability of Monks' Earth Stance and Half-Elves' Barbarian Dilettante Feat. It is also the basis of the concentration skill, which is important to Monks and Spellcasters. Many players WILL discriminate against low-con or low HP characters when forming groups and raids. A score of 14 is therefore often recommended, especially for newer players.

    **Red meant to denote hyperlinks to the appropriate entries.

    I don't remember where on the boards I first heard this, but...
    "It doesn't matter what else your character can do, when HP hits -10, all you can do is ride in a backpack."
    I like the hyperlink idea. I was going to suggest something similar.

    The first page should be something similar to how you have it now.
    But provide links to more detailed information. So players do not have to get overwhelmed by to much information, but have the option to find out more about something specific if they want to.

    You can even have statements about what most players recommend about the stats if you wish.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  10. #90
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    I'm pretty sure they're not putting levelups in CON, either. 18 base CON makes sense for most Casters, and some Barbs, and Fighters, though. Not much else to do with those stat points.
    Expecting 18 to be the norm is pushing it a bit I think.
    Sohryu ~ Raven's Guard ~ Orien

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Traps in DDO don't actually deal damage, they politely ask your avatar to damage themselves.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Some people give similar advice for melees for Str first, Con second, dump verything else unless you need a prereq. (monks and Pallies might be an exception.)
    The more general way to state it is:
    Constitution should usually be your second-highest stat, unless you need Dexterity for AC, GTWF, or AA.

  12. #92
    Community Member TheDjinnFor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    Did you mean to say 14?

    Because if you look at the threads in the last couple days you will realize 10con gets people auto-declined from groups thanks to myddo.
    rofl

  13. #93
    Community Member Thucydides04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    Did you mean to say 14?

    Because if you look at the threads in the last couple days you will realize 10con gets people auto-declined from groups thanks to myddo.
    LOL, who is declining people because they have con lower than 14? If you are, you obviously lack the ability to get things done.

    Con < 10 can be problematic for certain classes, however well played toons are fine without putting ten build points into con. Furthermore, spending more than 6 build points on a 28 point toon for a newb is highly inadvisable. I usually only do 4-6 build points into con. Seriously, the HP issue is because people do not wear con/GFL/toughness items, or craft GS HP items.

    Advice to newbs: Make your GS ITEM first, your weapon 2nd. Metalline of PG is fine, but having less than 400 hp is problematic. It does not take much work to get 400+hp on even arcanes.

    To the OP: I would put that con is not the only way to boost your HPs. There are 30+20+25(45)= 75(95) easy HPs out there to help boost totals.
    Wyclef
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  14. #94
    Community Member Thucydides04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    I'm pretty sure they're not putting levelups in CON, either. 18 base CON makes sense for most Casters, and some Barbs, and Fighters, though. Not much else to do with those stat points.



    Both solid advice.
    Barbs have decent reflex saves, esp. with imp. uncanny dodge running. Taking half damage because you actually put 6 points into dex and maybe slotted dex somewhere is better than the failed save and full damage vs. the +20hps.
    Wyclef
    AoK

  15. #95
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirea View Post
    Expecting 18 to be the norm is pushing it a bit I think.
    Did I say norm? No, that it "makes sense" for most Casters and some melee. I still consider 6 build points in CON the norm. In some cases, it makes sense to exceed the norm.

    Talon seemed to suggest that 18 base CON was simply absurd.

  16. #96
    Community Member TheDjinnFor's Avatar
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    How I would personally do it. Additions in green, removals in red (can't recall how to do a strike-through).

    Ways Your DDO Character Grows


    Aside from discovering and earning better equipment (e.g. weapons, armor, trinkets, etc) this visual aid represents the four ways every DDO character grows as they gather more and more experience.

    The Relationship (& Difference) between Levels & Ranks

    In DDO, earning a new "Level" is a big deal, thus, it takes some effort. To gain a level you first need to earn enough experience to obtain five “ranks.” However, each rank is useful too. Every rank offers up some Action Points, which are spent on buying enhancements for your character. Enhancements are incredibly potent and highly flexible – they're one of the easiest ways to dramatically customize your character! Often times, a new level grants you extra character-building choices; you'll get to pick from a pool of feats and choose an ability to permanently increase. Plus, essential character stats (like Base Attack Bonus, explained next) are automatically increased. Look at the chart below to get a feel for when you’ll get to pick your feats and ability increases! Don’t forget that some classes get bonus feats beyond what is shown in the chart!

    Base Attack Bonus

    In DDO, your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) is a small number with big consequences. BAB determines your ability to hit enemies with both melee and ranged weapons; the higher your BAB, the better your combat accuracy! Additionally, BAB sets the speed (number of attacks) at which a character fights with melee or ranged attacks.

    Some classes, like Wizards and Sorcerors, have a 'bad' BAB progression; they get much less BAB than every other class for each level. This doesn't affect spellcasting, but it makes it hard for them to fight with weapons like other characters do! Other classes have 'excellent' BAB, such as fighters and barbarians; they are very fast and very accurate with their attacks. The rest of the classes have 'average' BAB.

    Skills vs. Feats

    Every character in DDO has skills and feats! Each time a player character achieves a new level, that player will earn "skill points" that can be used to improve a selection of skills such as balance, jump, and hide. Increase the point value of a skill, and the better a character will be at said skill! A feat is used to improve combat abilities, further increase your capability with skills, or even grant you the ability to use special items and skills in-game. Some feats are available to all classes and races, but some are race and/or class specific.

    Tip! Skills are improved by spending skill points, and both skills and feats can be improved via enhancements!

    Ability Scores

    Every character in DDO has Ability Scores, regardless of their race or class. Ability Scores affect a variety of things, but the main thing to remember is that they're consistent. For example, increasing your strength Ability Score will always increase your muscle power, thereby affecting your chance to hit, and damage, enemies.


    • Strength

    Muscle power! Affects your chance to strike a foe with melee attacks and damage. Strength also increases your carrying capacity.

    • Dexterity

    Coordination and agility! Affects your primary physical defense (your Armor Class, or AC), your ability to dodge certain magical attacks (Reflex saves), and the accuracy of your ranged attacks.

    • Constitution

    Health (hit points)! Constitution lets you suffer more damage before dying, and improves your ability to endure physical strain (Fortitude save). Keeping this Ability Score no lower than 12 is highly encouraged, even if you're making a character who isn't a melee style.

    • Intelligence

    Learning ability and reasoning! Affects skill points gained at each level and the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.

    • Wisdom

    Willpower and intuition! Affects your willpower (Will save) and the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.

    • Charisma

    Personality and magnetism! Determines how well you influence non-player characters (NPCs) and affects the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.

    You can give a temporary boost to your ability scores in a variety of ways, including items, enhancements, and spells. You can also use special, rare artifacts called tomes which will give you a permanent increase, much like a level up does!

    Tip! Some class abilities and feats require you to have a “minimum” permanent amount of a particular Ability Score. Keep that in mind when picking your ability increases! Spellcasters also must have a minimum Ability Score to cast their spells, but this can include items and other temporary effects.

    Armor Class

    Armor Class (AC) is a number that represents a character's ability to avoid being hit in combat. Every character has a base AC of 10 in DDO, but that number goes up based on various factors such as race, class, feat and equipment choices. Remember, not all bonuses stack with each other (see bonus types, below). Getting enough AC to become unhittable is a difficult task!

    What's an Enhancement?

    An enhancement is an advancement method in DDO that – you guessed it – can "enhance" various aspects of your character. Enhancements can provide bonuses to a skill, feat or even an ability score. They can also unlock special abilities based on your race, class, or other character qualities. To purchase enhancements you need Action Points, earned each time you achieve a new rank. Enhancements are learned by visiting class trainers, and can be purchased whenever you want. It's possible to save up your action points for a really expensive enhancement later – so keep that in mind!

    Tip! Enhancements are different than ability scores, skills, and feats; enhancements are never permanent choices. You may reset your chosen enhancements for once every three days or so, for a small sum of platinum (in-game currency).

    Reflex, Fortitude & Will Saves

    We covered AC, but there's one other element to your defense – saves! When an enemy casts a spell directed at you, in order to resist or reduce its effects, you need to "save." Each spell has type of save associated with it.

    For example, a Fireball spell requires a Reflex save to determine whether or not you avoid being hit by it. A spell that would hold your character still (e.g. Hold Person) is a Will save to resist, because said spell is attacking your willpower. Saves also come into play when avoiding things like traps. There are only three, and each one is tied to a single Ability Score.

    • Reflex Save (Dexterity)

    Your ability to avoid damage due to agility and reaction time – like dodging a trap!

    • Fortitude Save (Constitution)

    Your ability to withstand attacks that target physical stamina – like deadly poison!

    • Will Save (Wisdom)

    Your ability to withstand mental influence or control due to willpower – like a psychic charm!

    Bonus Types


    Many bonuses to skills and ability scores have a 'type' attached to them, like "enhancement bonus" or "resistance bonus". This is important! Most bonuses do not stack with bonuses of the same type unless they specifically say otherwise; only the highest applies. This means that if you wear gloves giving you an enhancement bonus of +2 to strength, and you put on a belt that gives you another +1 enhancement bonus to strength, you will only get the effect provided by the +2 gloves.


    Asking For Assistance

    Still have questions? Feel free to ask them in the comments below, or even in-game by typing "/advice" or "/a" before your question. The "/advice" chat channel gives players who have large amounts of basic DDO knowledge a chance to share it with new players!

  17. #97
    Community Member jkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thucydides04 View Post
    Con < 10 can be problematic for certain classes, however well played toons are fine without putting ten build points into con. Furthermore, spending more than 6 build points on a 28 point toon for a newb is highly inadvisable. I usually only do 4-6 build points into con. Seriously, the HP issue is because people do not wear con/GFL/toughness items, or craft GS HP items.

    Advice to newbs: Make your GS ITEM first, your weapon 2nd. Metalline of PG is fine, but having less than 400 hp is problematic. It does not take much work to get 400+hp on even arcanes.

    To the OP: I would put that con is not the only way to boost your HPs. There are 30+20+25(45)= 75(95) easy HPs out there to help boost totals.
    Step back and think about the reason they are posting this in the first place. This looks like a response to customer surveys that there is little explanation of game mechanics and that the game is too complex to understand. This isn't something that plague people at the levels you are talking about (<14). [Its also kind of silly to document a game that is so heavily documented already, but that is corporate america for you]

    The issues for the players that are leaving are 2 fold:

    1. Heroic Durability - The absolute power of this feat hides build deficiencies for the first 3-4 levels allowing players to become attached to the character. When its power finally starts to wane, the difficulty in playing the character increases level by level until finally you just quit. If I had to guess, I'd say the attrition rate of players who have a 1st character with a CON of less than 12 is 80% or higher.

    2. That the "Paths" are not User Content - There should be an SDK for building a Path that can be submitted to a Forum/Turbine Path Steering Committee to be uploaded onto the server so that New Characters can use them.

    Each Path should have 28/32 point variants and have a rating system of various attributes that would be assigned by the SteerCo for the new player to see:

    some proposed traits (out of 10):

    End Game Viability
    Survivability
    Soloability
    Gear Dependence

    For example, a 28 point MiniMonster with Halfling Dragonmarks

    [just making **** up here]
    EGV: 8
    Surv: 8
    Solo: 8
    GD: 6

    However, this path would be barred for all new players because of not having access to dragonmarks. It would also be barred from F2P players who do not have Monk.

  18. #98
    Community Member Thucydides04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkm View Post
    Step back and think about the reason they are posting this in the first place. This looks like a response to customer surveys that there is little explanation of game mechanics and that the game is too complex to understand. This isn't something that plague people at the levels you are talking about (<14). [Its also kind of silly to document a game that is so heavily documented already, but that is corporate america for you]

    The issues for the players that are leaving are 2 fold:

    1. Heroic Durability - The absolute power of this feat hides build deficiencies for the first 3-4 levels allowing players to become attached to the character. When its power finally starts to wane, the difficulty in playing the character increases level by level until finally you just quit. If I had to guess, I'd say the attrition rate of players who have a 1st character with a CON of less than 12 is 80% or higher.

    2. That the "Paths" are not User Content - There should be an SDK for building a Path that can be submitted to a Forum/Turbine Path Steering Committee to be uploaded onto the server so that New Characters can use them.

    Each Path should have 28/32 point variants and have a rating system of various attributes that would be assigned by the SteerCo for the new player to see:

    some proposed traits (out of 10):

    End Game Viability
    Survivability
    Soloability
    Gear Dependence

    For example, a 28 point MiniMonster with Halfling Dragonmarks

    [just making **** up here]
    EGV: 8
    Surv: 8
    Solo: 8
    GD: 6

    However, this path would be barred for all new players because of not having access to dragonmarks. It would also be barred from F2P players who do not have Monk.
    I think my statement addresses the problem quite well. every 2 build points nets 20 hps at cap. There is no reason outside of an arcane that any class should be putting more than 6 build points into con. There are ample other sources for hps in this game. People need educated on these sources. Not wearin a +6 con item and GFL with a heavy fort item is completely unnacceptable. Pumpin more points into con does not fix this issue. Minos is easy to get as well. +6 con item = 60 hps, Minos = 20, GFL = 30, that is 110 hps right there.

    I just rolled a haggler on a 2nd acct and leveled it while tring my main. All it did was stand at dungeon entrances and buff the group while we ran the quest. At 20 she had ~230 hps and I took her into an ev6 w/o any of the items I mentioned. She died 1 time. Afterward, I said this unnacceptable and sent her some taps and a con item, now she has ~350 hps. She does not die at all when I run her unless I am toting her stone for convenience. If I gave her a tome and +2 exc con and a shroud hp item she would be standing at 430 hps which is plenty for a non melee.
    Wyclef
    AoK

  19. #99
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    Did I say norm? No, that it "makes sense" for most Casters and some melee. I still consider 6 build points in CON the norm. In some cases, it makes sense to exceed the norm.

    Talon seemed to suggest that 18 base CON was simply absurd.
    Not absurd.
    But it shows that people value it more than most other stats. Which I don't....like...for lack of a better way to put it.

    I think all stats are important. Some more important to some classes than others.
    But I like well rounded, versitile chars. And I have learned how to not get beat up all of the time in most dungeons. So I do not need a ton of HP...........yet.

    But if the Devs assume that every player has X many HP, and create new dungeons to challenge people based on that. Than my prefered playstyle suddenly becomes impossible.

    And what I think many people are missing is that it devalues the worth of investing in high Con to those who already do so as well. Cause now everything will be adjusted to challenge those with the higher Con/HP. Driving everything up, like inflation.

    My opinion is that thr D&D average is supposed to be a stat of 10.
    If you have higher than 10, you have an advantage in that area.
    If you have lower than 10, you have a disadvantage.

    Those who have 8 Ints, have fewer skill points. Only one for most classes. Making them very lacking in skills. They will have only a single skill maxed. And as much as I hate it, very few skills that are not maxed have any value at all in DDO.

    you cannot see hiding monsters without a good Spot skill. Can't intim without Intim. Can't jump, can't swim, heal, sneak....etc.

    Of course in DDO this seldom really matters. But for some people it does matter. And I'd like the game to support people who value that more than HP.

    Low Cha? Merchants charge you more, can't intim, UMD, use Wild Empathy, Turn Undead.....
    Some of us actually care about those things.

    Low Wisdom....those are the guys posting about how they can avoid being Held. The Pal/Rgrs who wonder why they can't cast spells at lvl 4....
    Some people actually care about lvl 4 instead of lvl 20.

    I like this game because of variety. But once the devs take the official position that the whole game should be swing, ENDURE, heal....then you just hurt those of us who want a char who can do more than that.

    And you also hurt those who invest in that as well. They just don't realise it yet.
    But once you force very gimp to build an uber char just like yours, you are no longer uber.

    "and when everyone is Super....No one will be"
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  20. #100
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    But if the Devs assume that every player has X many HP, and create new dungeons to challenge people based on that. Than my prefered playstyle suddenly becomes impossible.

    And what I think many people are missing is that it devalues the worth of investing in high Con to those who already do so as well. Cause now everything will be adjusted to challenge those with the higher Con/HP. Driving everything up, like inflation.
    HP values have certainly increased, but I don't think base CON has increased much in quite awhile. This is because past 14, the price goes up significantly.

    14 isn't the sweet spot because the devs designed it to be with their content, it's the sweet spot because increasing it to that costs so little and gains so much.

    My opinion is that thr D&D average is supposed to be a stat of 10.
    If you have higher than 10, you have an advantage in that area.
    If you have lower than 10, you have a disadvantage.
    Average among adventurers, or among everyone? Because adventurers can easily exceed 10 in every stat with the point buy. Spreading out 28 points among all the stats gets 12 or 13 in all of them. In that sense, 12 or 13 is the average, and any deviation from that is advantage or disadvantage.

    Those who have 8 Ints, have fewer skill points. Only one for most classes. Making them very lacking in skills. They will have only a single skill maxed. And as much as I hate it, very few skills that are not maxed have any value at all in DDO.

    you cannot see hiding monsters without a good Spot skill. Can't intim without Intim. Can't jump, can't swim, heal, sneak....etc.
    True for intim, very false for the others. Required spot, hide, and move silently vary wildly, but a +15 item, and nothing else, is more than enough in many quests. Jump needs only +10, from ranks and STR-mod, to get the capped amount of 40 once you hit high level and get a jump clicky belt. Swim and Heal are basically a waste of ranks no matter how high you get them, but what value they have, scales quite smoothly. There are no significant "pass/fail" lines like for intim.

    Of course in DDO this seldom really matters. But for some people it does matter. And I'd like the game to support people who value that more than HP.
    Then the game mechanics need to change.

    Not by giving new players advice that doesn't make sense for them given how the game is currently designed.
    Last edited by dkyle; 03-17-2011 at 03:47 PM.

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