38 AC at level 4?

[zioth]

Yesterday, I was in a party, and someone was yelling at me for having only a 21 AC as a level 4 fighter. Then other people in the party started rattling off their AC -- 31, 38. How can I get such a high AC at such a low level?

I've boosted it to 23: +3 full plate, +3 dex bonus, and the fighter+dwarf enhancements that increase max dex bonus (I learned after the fact that don't stack). I have a shield that can boost that to 28, but I prefer TWF.

I know I can get a couple more points with a Protection item, and maybe I'll get some help from my richer character (about 300k platinum). What else can I do to keep overly wealthy TRs from yelling at me too much?

[UnderwearModel]

If you did not die, don't worry about the egotists.

If they are a TR then they are a 34 point build. Huge difference if you happen to be a 28 point build.

Are you a 28 point build?
What level were they?
Do you have the Sentinels pack? There is a 5th level helm that will add +1 to AC.

At level 4 you can get race restricted full plate +4 and race restricted +4 shield. At level 4 you can use a BARKSKIN potion to kick it up one. If you are NOT using a shield, then get a SHIELD spell clickie. It is only one minute, but it will help.

At level 4 it is possible to find a +2 protection item, but a RARITY. I don't think I have one.

I never worry about AC when I am level 10 or less. I do my best and it is usually good enough for me to not die, do my job, and sometimes save the party because people just think they are really, really better than me.

[mws2970]

Meh, just tell them you're DPS-specced! LOL :P

[jwdaniels]

Barkskin, Shield of Faith, and Haste pots all add to your AC. Also, there's the combat expertise and dodge feats, protection bonuses (don't stack with Shield of Faith), and alchemical rituals on your armor and shield.

If you stack enough modifiers (and remember that bonuses with the same name don't stack) you can get up there pretty quickly. The trick is, if you're building for AC, you have to be able to keep stacking more and higher numbers or you will very quickly find yourself getting hit a lot.

[Gnorbert]

at level 5, a TR could be using an upgraded Dusty rose Ioun stone for Protection +5 (did he have a little pink thing orbiting his head?)

38 is a little much at level 4-6 without completely optimal gear and feats (Combat expertise, dodge)... unless he was flat out lying which is more likely the case.



EDIT: moved to end of thread

[zioth]

I did die, and so did most of the party, but that was because we were in an elite quest, and the yeller thought we'd all done this quest thousands of times and knew it perfectly. He kept yelling things like, "Go up! They're shooting you from above. Go up!" when there was no obvious way to go up. When I figured out how to go up (I had to go around in a big circle, which he didn't mention), I got attacked from all sides by archers shooting acid arrows.

Still, it would be nice to have a higher AC. Damage is no problem with my two +3 dwarven axes.

[zioth]

Is Combat Expertise a good idea? I already use Power Attack. Won't that knock my attack bonus down too far?

[jwdaniels]

+3 full plate, +3 tower shield, combat expertise, dodge feat = easy mid 30's unbuffed. Especially if the plate and shield are mithral.

Of course you'd have to put down an axe and turn off power attack to get there which might be less than optimal in a given situation, but if you're switching between AC and DPS when appropriate getting a mid to high 30's AC at level 4 or 5 isn't all that difficult.

[jwdaniels]

Is Combat Expertise a good idea? I already use Power Attack. Won't that knock my attack bonus down too far?

You can only have one active at a time.

[Gnorbert]

Let's give it a try

10 - base
11 - armor (+3 Mith FP)
4 - Dex (Mith FP MDB plus a fighter enhancement)
1 - dodge feat
7 - Shield (+3 mith tower shield)
5 - Protection (Dusty rose ioun stone on a TR ML:5)
3 - Barkskin
1 - Haste
5 - combat expertise

46 total before boosts and not including any ship buffs, achievable at level 5

Would take some serious stat and feat investments though.

[MrWizard]

Yesterday, I was in a party, and someone was yelling at me for having only a 21 AC as a level 4 fighter. Then other people in the party started rattling off their AC -- 31, 38. How can I get such a high AC at such a low level?

I've boosted it to 23: +3 full plate, +3 dex bonus, and the fighter+dwarf enhancements that increase max dex bonus (I learned after the fact that don't stack). I have a shield that can boost that to 28, but I prefer TWF.

I know I can get a couple more points with a Protection item, and maybe I'll get some help from my richer character (about 300k platinum). What else can I do to keep overly wealthy TRs from yelling at me too much?

Those people were probably fudging it a bit and TRs with ship buffs and big bucks. Without some amazing build, special buffs, tons of mithral, and other neat expensive or very hard to find gear, you are not gonna make 40 at 4th level in 'regular' combat play.

level 4 fighter

10 base (we all start with that)
11 (+3 full plate)
1 Protection item (usually Korthos) or cleric shield of faith
2 Defensive fighting (at a -5 to hit though)
1 dex bonus (max on plate that is not mithral)
1 increased dex bonus due to fighter armor mastery
1 increased dex bonus due to dwarven armor mastery (does stack with ftr mastery)

Shield
4 shield clickie (lasts one minute only)
OR
5 (+3 heavy shield)
------------------------------------------
32 or 33 (with a -5 to hit) or 30/31 at normal to hit


Feats (should only be taken if you are all 'ac' type, and you would not have many of these at 4th level)

1 dodge
5 combat expertise (does not stack with defensive fighting)
1 TWF defense if two weapon fighting only

Extreme buffs
1 haste (assuming caster is using scrolls)
1 Ship buff (ac thingee)

So potentially here, assuming an AC build, and you took all those feats first (not recommended) you could get around 40. If human you could boost another 2 or 3 for a short time. Blocking will add +2 to your AC total.


I do not think bark is available until level 5, and a ranger at that level cannot cast it I think. Not sure on shield of faith cast by cleric, but let's say it stays at one.

Mithral armor at that level, very expensive, can bring up your dex bonus by another 2, but with the armor masteries already bring up 2, that would be a total of 5...which would demand a dex of at least 20....that is possible with cat's grace.


at 4th level your best bet would be to spend money on a fortification item (gets you 25% chance to not be critted...at 6th level you can buy a moderate fort item, though it will usually come on lesser armor or shield (+1 instead of +4 armor, so you get hit more, but hit for less crits...moderate gives you 75% chance of not being critted)

If you are not an AC tank, that fortification is a biggie. An ac tank can survive better against crits due to the mob having to confirm the critical against that high AC. On a low AC it will confirm that crit more..and on elite runs that really hurts a lot...lol

[ckorik]

Combat Expertise turns off power attack and uses the same (neg) modifier to your attack but applies it to AC instead of damage.

CE is really for tank builds - again typically not really used (much like power attack really) until higher levels when turning it on does not make you miss 50% of the time.

[MrWizard]

Let's give it a try

10 - base
11 - armor (+3 Mith FP)
4 - Dex (Mith FP MDB plus a fighter enhancement)
1 - dodge feat
7 - Shield (+3 mith tower shield)
5 - Protection (Dusty rose ioun stone on a TR ML:5)
3 - Barkskin
1 - Haste
5 - combat expertise

46 total before boosts and not including any ship buffs, achievable at level 5

Would take some serious stat and feat investments though.

he said level 4, no ioun, no bark, and he was poor, so no mithral..and haste at level 4 is not a given unless a caster is scroll checking (3rd level spell?)

[MrWizard]

Is Combat Expertise a good idea? I already use Power Attack. Won't that knock my attack bonus down too far?

if you are not an ac tank, don't take it...you cannot have both.

this leader sounds like a moron...don't let it get to you.


For an AC tank at 6th level...this is where I am sitting on a new server with no cash and no hand me down stuff....this is an ac tank and requires certain feats and enhancements.

10 base
2 max dex bonus w/full plate (extra 1 is from ftr armor mastery)
12 +4 adamantine full plate
8 +4 tower shield
2 dodge bonus (in stalwart stance)
5 combat expertise
1 dodge feat
1 dodge (stalwart enhancement)
3 shield of faith (pot or spell, min level 5)
3 barkskin (min level 5 pot)
------------------------------------------
46 + 3 if blocking

3 human boost for 20 seconds at a time
1 haste
? paladin (not sure how much at this level yet, assume 2?)
--------------------------------------------------
52, +3 if blocking.

ship buffs could increase this a couple I am sure, as could mithral armors (by 3 or 4) getting close to 60. With hand me down gear...well...wheeee

This is an ac tank...something that focuses on AC during the building and buffing phases.

[Gnorbert]

he said level 4, no ioun, no bark, and he was poor, so no mithral..and haste at level 4 is not a given unless a caster is scroll checking (3rd level spell?)

Well, he didn't specify what level the guy yelling at him was... regardless... was more a thought exercise for low level AC.

So, for level 4, lose 4 for dropping to a +1 prot item and lose the haste and the bark... it's still a 38. It's achievable with the right twink gear and feats but it's pretty funny that a very specific tank build would be chastising others for not having the same numbers.

[Thoom]

I have found that there are 2 basic type of elite players. The first type, wants everyone to succeed. They are helpful, wont spoil the quest if you ask, and will offer friendly advice in a calm way. Planting seeds to create a smarter new player base.

The second type wonder why everyone isnt an OVER 9000 TR who memorized everything in the game. If they did it, why cant you? OMG I just ran ahead in the shortest path and soloed the quest while you was loading in, you bunch of pikers.

Which one will you be?

[blitzschlag]

he said level 4, no ioun, no bark, and he was poor, so no mithral..and haste at level 4 is not a given unless a caster is scroll checking (3rd level spell?)

there are +2 barkskin pots too

and he said he was lvl 4

[jwdaniels]

A pure fighter, especially human, gets more than enough feats to have both combat expertise and power attack at level 4. You can't have them both active at once, but even if you are building an AC fighter there's no reason not to have a DPS option also.

[Fallout]

I have found that there are 2 basic type of elite players. The first type, wants everyone to succeed. They are helpful, wont spoil the quest if you ask, and will offer friendly advice in a calm way. Planting seeds to create a smarter new player base.

The second type wonder why everyone isnt an OVER 9000 TR who memorized everything in the game. If they did it, why cant you? OMG I just ran ahead in the shortest path and soloed the quest while you was loading in, you bunch of pikers.

Which one will you be?

I know what you mean. The second type of 'power gamer' can get very condescending if you don't know a certain quest perfect and heavily twinked. I know TR grinding is alot of pain and long hours of work, but don't expect a pug group to be similar like them. If they post a LFM themselves and specify specifically, then I understand. But if they join a pug group and be an a-hole because the group haven't TR, or heavily twinked, then whos fault is that.

But seriously at L4? Who bothers with AC? Just get a Carniflex and kill everything, just use a hireling cleric.

[blitzschlag]

possible without shipbuffs on lvl 4. no hard to get gear used

10 base
11 mithral fp +3
6 skyvault shield no ml
2 alchemical (armour and shield)
5 dex bonus (+1 fam +1dam)
2 sof (cleric/fvs cast)
2 small bark
2 defensive fighting
---
40
1 using +3 mithral tower
3 using combat expertise
---
44