38 AC at level 4?

[MrWizard]

Well, he didn't specify what level the guy yelling at him was... regardless... was more a thought exercise for low level AC.

So, for level 4, lose 4 for dropping to a +1 prot item and lose the haste and the bark... it's still a 38. It's achievable with the right twink gear and feats but it's pretty funny that a very specific tank build would be chastising others for not having the same numbers.

wasn't chastising, no offense meant...easy to miss the level 4 thing...38 is rather hard to get for a new player without gear...and no access to good buffs.
If it came off that way, it was not my intention. I had written something for 6th level and then realized he was talking about level 4 too.


2 bark pots are very short times and are very expensive over time...reason I never even bother if no cash..(for an earlier post)

[t0r012]

Couple points for the op.
1 30+ac at level 4 is over kill. Unless you are running level 4 quests on elite (level 6) mid to upper 20s will be fine.
2 don't get yourself in the mindset that you have to run everything on elite at level to prove yourself as good. It is silly ego fluffing to do so. Can I run a level 4 quest on elite with a level 4 toon? You bet. Do I ever? No. It is pointless to do so. Even all twinned out and knowing all if the quests it doesn't help anything but ego. The quests take longer and you equip takes more damage and you are more likely to run in to the type of guy that thinks he is uber with his 38 ac at level 4.
3 more of a personal thing about your toon, put down the dual axes and pick up a two hander. Even with max str and goodies you wil fin yourself turning off PA even with a two hander much on higher ac mobs. Trying to twf at low levels is an exercise in futility when you try and turn PA on.

[thwart]

Yesterday, I was in a party, and someone was yelling at me for having only a 21 AC as a level 4 fighter. Then other people in the party started rattling off their AC -- 31, 38. How can I get such a high AC at such a low level?

I've boosted it to 23: +3 full plate, +3 dex bonus, and the fighter+dwarf enhancements that increase max dex bonus (I learned after the fact that don't stack). I have a shield that can boost that to 28, but I prefer TWF.

I know I can get a couple more points with a Protection item, and maybe I'll get some help from my richer character (about 300k platinum). What else can I do to keep overly wealthy TRs from yelling at me too much?

Just tell people your ac is -10. The old timers, like me, will be impressed!

[Zenako]

Just tell people your ac is -10. The old timers, like me, will be impressed!

Ah wi****lly dreaming of the days before THACO....and even then not matter how sick the AC got, 20's still hit...


gheesh got to love filters...

[SetofBs]

3 more of a personal thing about your toon, put down the dual axes and pick up a two hander. Even with max str and goodies you wil fin yourself turning off PA even with a two hander much on higher ac mobs. Trying to twf at low levels is an exercise in futility when you try and turn PA on.

This. As it is, with power attack on during an elite quest you are probably missing way too much. Use a 2 hander until you get to level 10 or 12 (make sure you have Improved 2 weapon fighting before dual wielding).

[Khanyth]

OP:

1. I assume this was a PUG. People frequently brag and overstate their abilities in PUGS. Much like guys who brag about how many women they've slept with, how much weight they can bench press, how much alcohol they can consume, how fast their computer is, how many quests they know perfectly, blah blah blah...... people will always add a few, round up and add a few more.... so someone will say they have 20 AC, then add 5, round that up to 30, and add 4 more.

Moral of the story: unless you know the player and/or know that they are telling the truth... just say "That's nice" then turn your mic off, and call bull spit

2. Roll a barb. You'll be a better killing machine and never have to worry about AC

[Westerner]

The leader sounds like someone who likes to blame others for his own failures.

At low levels I'd pay attention to AC but not obsess over it. Use all the readily available items you can find, max full plate, situational max shield, and it will be enough. Shield of Faith and Barkskin potions can provide some useful defensive boosts when needed. Blur from a friendly arcane, and maybe Displacement for special occasions.

Saves are equally or more important than AC at low levels. Failed Will saves can easily lead to death. Use the highest resistance item you can afford. I usually use Cloaks. Resistance +2 at 5th level, not sure if you can get Resistance +3 before 9th, but you may be able to find additional Will save items or boosts. e.g. Owl's Wisdom pots.

Btw THF usually does more damage than TWF at low levels. As someone else said, Carnifex pwns, if you can get one to drop from Delera's.

[jkm]

wasn't chastising, no offense meant...easy to miss the level 4 thing...38 is rather hard to get for a new player without gear...and no access to good buffs.
If it came off that way, it was not my intention. I had written something for 6th level and then realized he was talking about level 4 too.


2 bark pots are very short times and are very expensive over time...reason I never even bother if no cash..(for an earlier post)

+2 mithral full plate isn't that expensive (normally goes for list price on the AH). +3/+4/+5 gets a little steep.

[stille_nacht]

Is Combat Expertise a good idea? I already use Power Attack. Won't that knock my attack bonus down too far?

i wouldnt advise taking combat expertise unless you plan to do a loooot of grinding, and even then, youll only get up to 60s maybe on a fighter... and that isnt really useful after the vale of twilight :[

and at low levels, wouldnt combat expertise make a massive hit to your dps? i mean, with lv 4 BABs, they are losing a good 25% of their damage at least...

unless you have really twinky gear, use a two hander until you take improved two weapon fighting, pick up the nicest armor / protection item you want, but dont stress over it, AC will start to matter a lot less as you level :P

do not turn on power attack unless it actually increases your dps. (it adds 5 damage, but if you hit a lot less, that doesnt matter do it? :P)

[Therigar]

First off, no matter how much you invest in AC at L4 it will all be meaningless by the time you hit L20 anyway. The only time this isn't true is when you are a pure AC build that knows and uses all the tricks (by which I mean gear, multiclassing, stat distributions, etc.).

Secondly, investing in DEX and fighter enhancements to increase DEX bonuses to AC is mostly a waste of effort. You should dump DEX entirely if you are a THF build and only have enough DEX to get GTWF (17 after tomes but before enhancements and items) if you are a TWF build. So, figuring it into AC and spending enhancements on it is mostly just wasted effort.

There's more, but the first two points are enough.

[Alabore]

I did die, and so did most of the party, but that was because we were in an elite quest, and the yeller thought we'd all done this quest thousands of times and knew it perfectly. He kept yelling...

When they start yelling, I usually split.
This is a pastime; I understand being enthusiastic, but I usually draw my own line at being rude to strangers.

[fuzzy1guy]

Can also add in a stability item for true neutral characters for more ac.


But still. yeah if people start screaming and yelling about stuff in quests. it's time to drop. if tells follow.. ignore them. maybe squelch as well. Move on.

theres alot of people around who won't flip out. play with them instead.

[Shade]

some 5/6 years ago, my AC build fighter at 50 AC at lvl5..

These days you could manage a 60+ with the TR stuff.

Should you try it?

No.

AC is a crutch relied on by players who just haven't quite figured out this game that well yet. There is a reason said guy with the 30+ ac died, while my 28pnt 8 AC dwarf barb has easily solo'd said quest on elite at lvl (Freshen the Air I bet based on your comments)

Elite is a difficulty setting, designed for players of higher skill levels. Not ones of higher armor class levels.

The large majority of the damage in said quest, come froms magic spells anyways.. Armor class has no effect against magic. So the advice your group leader was trying to tell you, was wrong for that specific quest.

Ideal equipment for said quest includes ways to prvent magic missles, and acid damage from acid rains and various other acid spells the troglodytes enjoy casting. As well as ways to simply dispatch them very quickly before they can eat up too much of your resources. Armor class? A waste of time, inventory slots, stat points, feats, and much more.

[EKKM]

Your leader sounds like an idiot. Yes you can get an AC like that but without a monk splash you are giving up lot of DPS to do it.

Is Combat Expertise a good idea? I already use Power Attack. Won't that knock my attack bonus down too far?

I wouldn't recommend it unless you plan on investing in AC at higher levels. As a twf don't bother unless you plan on a monk splash. It also requires a 13 base INT, I assume that would mean a reroll.

That said, carry around a towershield, use defensive fighting for those situations where you are running through arrows or things like that.

possible without shipbuffs on lvl 4. no hard to get gear used

10 base
11 mithral fp +3
6 skyvault shield no ml
2 alchemical (armour and shield)
5 dex bonus (+1 fam +1dam)
2 sof (cleric/fvs cast)
2 small bark
2 defensive fighting
---
40
1 using +3 mithral tower
3 using combat expertise
---
44

The OP is level 3 and obviously very new. I think you forget how hard it is to get things like +3 MFP at level 3.

In TWF mode:
10 base
2 dex using a ftr enhancement)
11 +3 FP
2 misc party buffs (bark , SOF, PfE)
1 protection
--
26

AC mode, minimal DPS
10 base
2 dex using a ftr enhancement)
11 +3 FP
7 +3 tower shield
2 misc party buffs (bark , SOF, PfE)
1 protection
2 defensive fighting
--
34 - more than enough at level 4

Although the AC rituals are effectively free I didn't include them because a new player is better of selling the ingredients on the AH than using them an armour of shields they will have for 2-3 levels. The plat from the sales can go twards pots, better weapons and gear.

[yawumpus]

Some background:
How hard is it to get >40AC at 4th level: A(above) moderately hard for players with at least one 20 level toon.
How much benefit do you get from such AC: Very little. You lose a lot of DPS (damage per second). DPS matters (in this forum it is essentially the whole point of most characters), AC does not.
Can you get the same benefit without such extreme sacrifice: Yes, while a robe of invulnerability would not stop the monsters from hitting you, it would stop almost all damage.

The conclusion is that the player bragging about his AC was either lying or an idiot (probably both) and you should not follow any advice of his on how to build a character. I would suspect that anyone at least pretending to have a decent AC would be wearing a shield. Forget it, use a greataxe.

AC is of little importance to DDO (it does help at 4th level, but for most of the life of your character, it won't matter).

Wear the following:
full plate +whatever you can afford.
[replace with adamantine full plate (or even any other heavy adamantine armor) if you can afford it, that DR/- helps]
wear one of the lesser axebane (and sometimes spearbane) bracers from Korthos.
if you can get it, Furor's hide is one of the best protections at that level. If you get it, use it with the spearbane bracer. Furor's hide is like an improved axebane bracer.
keep a shield (possibly a tower shield) in your backpack, plus a one handed weapon. You will rarely use it, but when you want it, you will need it.

You will notice a lot of damage resistance gear and very little AC gear. That is because DR works well and AC doesn't. Any points put into dexterity would largely be wasted already (full plate allows one point of dexterity bonus, +4 dexterity gear is technically available at the chronoscope in a couple of levels). Using a shield lowers your damage output so far as to make "sword and boarders" a gimped laughing stock of the forums (even intimitank builds made to hold agro while blocking with shields expect to use two handed weapons >95% of the time), don't even think of doing that (the shield you carry is typically for door blocking while casters attack what is beyond you).

Finally, expect to see some really stupid stuff on Korthos and in the Harbor (and beyond). People with no clue are often the first to mouth off. Also, the /advice channel is pretty sad. Stick to the forums.

[UnderwearModel]

at low levels, then the TR is not very good.

I will go so far as to guarantee that I can run that level quest at the same level as the TR was, on elite, and I bet I can carry the party through. I won't even do it on a TR.

I am also quite sure that most of the other posters in this thread could have done it also.

[zioth]

Wow. Thanks for the huge amount of advice and encouragement. I wasn't too worried about the leader. I just assume he's done the quest a million times and isn't used to others who haven't (which is strange, given that he started a PUG). I guess I should have known something was up when the first thing he told me was to stop wasting the healer's spell points when my AC was too low. Not sure why he wanted me there if I wasn't supposed to hit anything.

It's interesting to see how people react to the different classes. I've joined quests with my wizard/rogue where I've done very little to help the party, for whatever reason (tired, lost, playing with people who know the quest really well, etc), and no one ever notices. When a fighter messes up, people notice!

I'll just try to keep my AC up in a reasonable way while focusing on damage. Maybe barbarian would have been a better choice with that play style in mind, but I wanted to try a character with a ton of feats.

Is TWF really that much worse than THF at low levels? I re-rolled my THF fighter to switch to TWF. I guess that must change when you get good critical effects on weapons. Twice as many weapons means twice the criticals. Maybe I should just turn off power attack for a while and see how things go.

[somenewnoob]

Without spells I've only got 33 at level 6! I knew I was a gimp. (hangs head)

[Hafeal]

He kept yelling things like, "Go up! They're shooting you from above. Go up!" when there was no obvious way to go up. When I figured out how to go up (I had to go around in a big circle, which he didn't mention), I got attacked from all sides by archers shooting acid arrows.

AC isn't going to help much against archers due to the 'glancing' effect they get (brainblock: can't recall atm but I think that is what they are still calling it). You can find some spearblock items though and get a DR up to 5 pretty easily on the AH. That helps tremendously at lower levels and in some of the archer loving quests in particular.

[Westerner]

You can find some spearblock items though and get a DR up to 5 pretty easily on the AH. That helps tremendously at lower levels and in some of the archer loving quests in particular.

This. Spearblock is simple, and pwns vs archers at low levels, especially handy for wizards and sorcs. Mob archers seem to prefer squishy targets.