stunning fist DC and crit handwraps.

[erikbozelie]

So, is an (DC) 36 decent enough to use and if so,
which handwraps should i use to beat down?

[blitzschlag]

So, is an (DC) 36 decent enough to use and if so,
which handwraps should i use to beat down?

is this with or without the +10 from generic stunning wraps?

what quests are we talking about?

if epics and with +10 stunning, then its not enough. the higher in the 40s the better. got stunning dc at 45 with my kensai and figure to have a roughly 50% chance in echrono to land it.

[Shade]

Given monks faster attack rates and far shorter stun cooldowns, they can get by with a lower DC.

He didn't specify exlusively epics..

So i'd say yes: thats a good dc. It will work well in most any normal and hard quest. Somce elite/epic quests will result in a lot of saves, but im sure you can improve the DC when your ready to do those.

[Therigar]

Stunning Fist DC is 10 + half monk levels + WIS modifier + wrap stun value.

Assume that no monk is going to invest build points for starting 18 WIS or stat increases into WIS. The reason, in spite of improving finisher DCs and AC it comes at the expense of STR and other stats. It is a very unlikely situation.

At best a monk will start with 16 WIS and invest 3 enhancements, a tome and use a stat item. WIS is topping out somewhere around 28-30 with ship buffs. Slightly higher if stances are used to boost WIS and if Yugo pots, exceptional stats and so on are included. Therigar sits at 24 WIS at L18. That lower WIS is probably more typical of most monks (although not necessarily those specifically built for Epic content).

That puts Therigar's DC at 10 + 9 + 7 = 26 before taking the wrap stun value into account. He's only picking up another 1 point at L20. If I had pushed WIS to 30 I'd have added another 3 points. That would be 30 DC before wraps.

A monk that maxes out on WIS could reach something like 47 WIS (18 base, 3 enhancements, 5 stat increases, 4 tome, 3 exceptional, 2 ship buffs, 2 Yugo pots, 4 stance, 6 stat item). At L20 that would be 10 + 10 + 18 = 38 before wraps.

IIRC +10 stun is highest I've seen on generic wraps. So max DC is somewhere around 48. Not sure what that does to STR or CON or DEX -- but pretty sure it will cut into them enough that pushing for such a high WIS is probably not the best idea.

[erikbozelie]

Stunning Fist DC is 10 + half monk levels + WIS modifier + wrap stun value.

Assume that no monk is going to invest build points for starting 18 WIS or stat increases into WIS. The reason, in spite of improving finisher DCs and AC it comes at the expense of STR and other stats. It is a very unlikely situation.

At best a monk will start with 16 WIS and invest 3 enhancements, a tome and use a stat item. WIS is topping out somewhere around 28-30 with ship buffs. Slightly higher if stances are used to boost WIS and if Yugo pots, exceptional stats and so on are included. Therigar sits at 24 WIS at L18. That lower WIS is probably more typical of most monks (although not necessarily those specifically built for Epic content).

That puts Therigar's DC at 10 + 9 + 7 = 26 before taking the wrap stun value into account. He's only picking up another 1 point at L20. If I had pushed WIS to 30 I'd have added another 3 points. That would be 30 DC before wraps.

A monk that maxes out on WIS could reach something like 47 WIS (18 base, 3 enhancements, 5 stat increases, 4 tome, 3 exceptional, 2 ship buffs, 2 Yugo pots, 4 stance, 6 stat item). At L20 that would be 10 + 10 + 18 = 38 before wraps.

IIRC +10 stun is highest I've seen on generic wraps. So max DC is somewhere around 48. Not sure what that does to STR or CON or DEX -- but pretty sure it will cut into them enough that pushing for such a high WIS is probably not the best idea.

to be honest, yes i did. i will leave the build out of this thread. please dont ask me to post it.
DC 10 + 1monk levels + 15 or so wisdom +10stunning wraps = 36. if i really will need 40 i guess it should be an WF or dwarf.

but what kind of handwraps to get. switching is an pain and lowers dps.
so +10 stunning handwraps of X.

what should i put in the X?. not sure how much modifier i have left.

holy burst?
greater bane?
i dont know, something with auto crit?

[blitzschlag]

Stunning Fist DC is 10 + half monk levels + WIS modifier + wrap stun value.

Assume that no monk is going to invest build points for starting 18 WIS or stat increases into WIS. The reason, in spite of improving finisher DCs and AC it comes at the expense of STR and other stats. It is a very unlikely situation.

At best a monk will start with 16 WIS and invest 3 enhancements, a tome and use a stat item. WIS is topping out somewhere around 28-30 with ship buffs. Slightly higher if stances are used to boost WIS and if Yugo pots, exceptional stats and so on are included. Therigar sits at 24 WIS at L18. That lower WIS is probably more typical of most monks (although not necessarily those specifically built for Epic content).

That puts Therigar's DC at 10 + 9 + 7 = 26 before taking the wrap stun value into account. He's only picking up another 1 point at L20. If I had pushed WIS to 30 I'd have added another 3 points. That would be 30 DC before wraps.

A monk that maxes out on WIS could reach something like 47 WIS (18 base, 3 enhancements, 5 stat increases, 4 tome, 3 exceptional, 2 ship buffs, 2 Yugo pots, 4 stance, 6 stat item). At L20 that would be 10 + 10 + 18 = 38 before wraps.

IIRC +10 stun is highest I've seen on generic wraps. So max DC is somewhere around 48. Not sure what that does to STR or CON or DEX -- but pretty sure it will cut into them enough that pushing for such a high WIS is probably not the best idea.

dorf and wf get +stunning enhancements.

a str/wis monk with proper gear can get a 40 stunning fist dc and a 40+ stunning blow dc. those are on different cooldowns. pretty nifty. but not too reliable on epics. still very useful. so you can reliably get 12+ active stun attempts per minute.

[TheDearLeader]

IIRC +10 stun is highest I've seen on generic wraps. So max DC is somewhere around 48. Not sure what that does to STR or CON or DEX -- but pretty sure it will cut into them enough that pushing for such a high WIS is probably not the best idea.

Few other things could also raise this value, such as Dwarven/WF Tactics, and Fighter Passive Past Lives.

[Malky]

Stunning is a suffix for all weapons, so you'd better look for a prefix to go with it (alignment/element bursts are of course preferred)

[blitzschlag]

to be honest, yes i did. i will leave the build out of this thread. please dont ask me to post it.
DC 10 + 1monk levels + 15 or so wisdom +10stunning wraps = 36. if i really will need 40 i guess it should be an WF or dwarf.

but what kind of handwraps to get. switching is an pain and lowers dps.
so +10 stunning handwraps of X.

what should i put in the X?. not sure how much modifier i have left.

holy burst?
greater bane?
i dont know, something with auto crit?

+3 force burst of stunning +10 are nifty.
get icy burst on em somewhen on the next iceday
get holy burst ring
get electric burst ring
= everyday good trash beaters

edit: oh, i guess your build is a clonk 18/2 or fvs/monk 18/2. for either of em 36 is respectable. however you will possibly better swap to a pair of maiming rocksplitters once theyre stunned.
annoying and work? yes.
better results? yes.

[TheDearLeader]

Stunning is a suffix for all weapons, so you'd better look for a prefix to go with it (alignment/element bursts are of course preferred)

Someone, somewhere, is hiding a pair of +5 Force Burst Silver Threaded Wraps of Stunning +10... somewhere.

[Zero_Tolerance]

I started with 16 WIS. +2 tome +2 enhancements +6 item +2 ship buff = 39 stun DC with +10 wraps. Can hit 40 in water stance. It is quite ok in non-epic content, I can't complain.

I haven't done much epics though [some VONs, WizKing gnolls] but from what I did, I'd like more than 40. Since I lack epic experience, I can't say how that DC really works out across all epic quests [possibly other creatures have worse saves than what I had to deal with].

I will probably get exceptional WIS gear [for swapping], and I am also planning 3x fighter life to add to DC. I've met some monks ''made for epics'' that put everything in WIS - I think it is a bad idea, not going that way myself. I think with some TRs and little more gear it will be possible to hit 44-45 DC without gimping other stats, and that's where I will stop.

Gear-wise: +X Holy of Stunning +10 is what I'd consider as main weapon. Other +X any_burst of Stunning +10 for those mobs that don't take good damage. Force Burst of Stunning would be cool, but I haven't seen any yet with good stats, and also, they probably win over Holy only if you can manage to land your stuns most of the time [and mobs live long enough to get some burst hits in].

[Soleran]

a str/wis monk with proper gear can get a 40 stunning fist dc and a 40+ stunning blow dc. those are on different cooldowns. pretty nifty. but not too reliable on epics. still very useful. so you can reliably get 12+ active stun attempts per minute.

Don't forget yugo pots and ship buffs for another 2 dc stunning fist and you'll find it rare to have a caster or archer resist your sf, just don't gun for orthons/devils/high fort mods that are easily held.

42 sf dc in epics owns casters/archers all day long.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Someone, somewhere, is hiding a pair of +5 Force Burst Silver Threaded Wraps of Stunning +10... somewhere.

maybe in the u9 crafting system?

[TheDearLeader]

maybe in the u9 crafting system?

Oh no, that's when they also get Greater Evil Outsider Bane

I have seen +5 Force Burst of Pure Goods before. I suppose they'd be a good pair for Stunning +10

[Khurse]

When I ran Hekx with a 43ish DC the only things in epics I could not get reliably were the orange devils in Chrono and (for some reason) some of the Scorrow in EOOB. (But I know people with a lower DC that seemed to have no problem with them, so it may be cursed dice for me). With a 45ish DC now (and a switch from dark to light) I get teh scorrow a little more, but haven't run chrono since I made the switch.

36 DC is a little low, of course if you aren't planning on running epics with and regularity or hard/elite Amrath stuff, then it should be fine. You're still not going to get everything, but you should do pretty decently.

You can use whatever wraps you want, as long as their +10. With a DC in the 36 area I'd go with the +3/4/5 plain of stunning 10 over (some burst) of stunning 6 or 8. Again though it really depends on your long term plans. If you will be running TOD stay away from the holy burst stunning ones, as crafting Holy burst onto a ring is the way to go. And the two don't stack.
You can use Holy of stunning though. Hekx has got shocking burst of stunning,thundering of stunning, fire/icyburst of stunning, improved cursespewing of stunning. I don't carry them all around, just switch them up when I get bored.
Don't go crazy looking for the best burst though, most of the damage to any stunned mob is going to be from the guys with x3/x4 crit weapons in your party.

Really just get the highest DC you can, fit in Void IV for flavour, and you'll be a great asset to any party.

[Malky]

[...] and (for some reason) some of the Scorrow in EOOB

I have the feeling that scorrows/scorpions have quite high saves everywhere actually, on top of "going into the ground (for scorpions) at the very precise moment you're hitting the ToD button"

[Audita_Querela]

Oh no, that's when they also get Greater Evil Outsider Bane

I have seen +5 Force Burst of Pure Goods before. I suppose they'd be a good pair for Stunning +10

I'm waiting for +10 seeker handwraps of stunning +10.... I've seen +2 seeker of stunning +10... nothing more though.

[Jaid314]

I'm waiting for +10 seeker handwraps of stunning +10.... I've seen +2 seeker of stunning +10... nothing more though.

best i've seen is seeker 8/stunning 8, and i think that was an RR quarterstaff ML 18. you may be waiting a long time...

[Audita_Querela]

best i've seen is seeker 8/stunning 8, and i think that was an RR quarterstaff ML 18. you may be waiting a long time...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not holding my breath, but it would be a nice Christmas present for a light monk with DR breaking...

[Impatiens]

Assume that no monk is going to invest build points for starting 18 WIS or stat increases into WIS. The reason, in spite of improving finisher DCs and AC it comes at the expense of STR and other stats. It is a very unlikely situation.

While I don't know any monks that start with 18 Wis, it is definitely not an unlikely situation for monks to put stat increases into wisdom on level ups. There are many builds that do this.