Savant Prestige Information

[voodoogroves]

You're getting pretty confused over a game term that DDO uses ambiguously. Essentially DDO contains both Greater Stun and Lesser Stun, which are both Stun effects and labelled simply as "Stun".

"Greater Stun" is from Stunning Blow, Stunning Fist, Kukan-do, or zero Constitution, and it is the one that is already equivalent to Hold as far as vulnerability. The devs called it a "helpless" state, so both Hold and Greater Stun give autocrits now, and will give +50% damage in the future. They also enable Sneak Attack.
"Lesser Stun" is from Soundburst or Greater Shout, and it provides only Sneak Attack opportunity, not autocrits. In the future the expectation is that it will continue to function as it does now. This kind of stun was never "helpless", so it would not be effected by the change.


An important note to keep in mind is that Heavy Fortification blocks autocrits from Greater Stun today, but won't block +X% damage from the future version. So player characters who currently don't worry much about a little stun may soon suffer more from it.

No, I'm not confused. You're saying what i'm saying; the "greater" and "lesser" are going to be closer to each other. That's what I mean by "will be normalized". I may be mucking things up with the terminology since DDO isn't D&D in this regard, but that's what I'm saying.


The difference between the big and little stuns (your term) will be lessened. In today's game the "big stun" is really "big" ... tomorrow not quite so much bigger.

[Angelus_dead]

The difference between the big and little stuns (your term) will be lessened. In today's game the "big stun" is really "big" ... tomorrow not quite so much bigger.

Present state: Both greater stun and lesser stun add 0% spellcaster DPS.
Future state: Greater stun adds 50% spellcaster DPS, while lesser stun adds 0.
Future state: damaging spells are cheaper, meaning DPS from spells is a bigger part of gameplay.

[Dexxaan]

Things that had better be included (IMO)
- Improved crit chance (stacking)
- Improved damage
- Reduced SP cost
- More SP

Give us sorcerers a reason to once again to laugh at wizards.

OH, and don't make us all take a SF feat. We get shafted on feats as it is. There is no room to spare. PLEASE!!!!!

Wizards FTW - You will never laugh at us again! (Right Tolero??) *** GULP


.

[voodoogroves]

Present state: Both greater stun and lesser stun add 0% spellcaster DPS.
Future state: Greater stun adds 50% spellcaster DPS, while lesser stun adds 0.
Future state: damaging spells are cheaper, meaning DPS from spells is a bigger part of gameplay.

What remains to be seen and you and I may be assuming different mixes is how much "bigger" spell DPS is and what the impacts are of that. Will we see multi-arcane epic parties become the norm? etc.


I still feel Air provides a compelling damage + CC dual-option.

[Saravis]

What remains to be seen and you and I may be assuming different mixes is how much "bigger" spell DPS is and what the impacts are of that. Will we see multi-arcane epic parties become the norm? etc.


I still feel Air provides a compelling damage + CC dual-option.

Personally I think this will be a balancing mechanism. Caster damage will be higher, but what won't change is that caster damage will still not be sustainable. Sure you can drink pots and such, but the less one has to do that the better. Melee damage is and will continue to be sustainable, the party can rely on them for non-expendable damage. With this change there's no reason NOT to have the same group structure as much as there's no reason to require the same group structure. What I mean to say is; there will be no required group structure aside from the basic essentials (healing and CC)

[Jaid314]

What remains to be seen and you and I may be assuming different mixes is how much "bigger" spell DPS is and what the impacts are of that. Will we see multi-arcane epic parties become the norm? etc.


I still feel Air provides a compelling damage + CC dual-option.

air is probably the best mix of the two, but neither water nor earth are without strong CC. water also comes with the advantage of higher damage to begin with (horrid wilting is going to be a scary spell in U9 from what i can tell), and imo will likely be the "best" type of savant to specialise in. air will remain viable, as a sort of "generalist" savant, inasmuch as any sorcerer can lay claim to being a generalist anymore (admittedly, this depends on how much DCs increase by). earth will be the strongest CC option, afaict, especially vs single targets... expect to see a lot of petrified mobs with so-cheap-it's-almost-free acid arrow chipping away at them.

[jakeelala]

18 sorc /2 Monk WF lightning specc'ed dual weilding epic dynastic falcatas FTW

[sirdanile]

I read the t-3 prestige class and shat a brick.

After I pick my brain up off the floor I may be psychologically well enough to respond constructively.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I read the t-3 prestige class and shat a brick.

After I pick my brain up off the floor I may be psychologically well enough to respond constructively.

I like it how people really have no idea what is good or bad. (No personal attack on you Sirdaniel, just used your quote because you're like the 10'th guy to say something like this)

Their two is SO much better than tier 3, and when tier 2 was announced everyone was like "savant is so UP". And now people are like "ZOMG 2000 each 60 seconds is godlike".

I'm puzzled, that's all.


PS: Not saying tier 3 is bad, just saying that tier two surpasses it by a mile.

[voodoogroves]

I like it how people really have no idea what is good or bad. (No personal attack on you Sirdaniel, just used your quote because you're like the 10'th guy to say something like this)

Their two is SO much better than tier 3, and when tier 2 was announced everyone was like "savant is so UP". And now people are like "ZOMG 2000 each 60 seconds is godlike".

I'm puzzled, that's all.


PS: Not saying tier 3 is bad, just saying that tier two surpasses it by a mile.

... and I'm obsessed with movement. That's why that one tier 3 is so appealing to me (air). Sure, I love the 10+ sorc level + CON lock-downs of earth and water, but the movement jump is huge (plus making everyone's Lit2 a bit better).

[Absolute-Omniscience]

... and I'm obsessed with movement. That's why that one tier 3 is so appealing to me (air). Sure, I love the 10+ sorc level + CON lock-downs of earth and water, but the movement jump is huge (plus making everyone's Lit2 a bit better).

Alright, I see your point. So you're happy about it's "niceness" rather than it's power?

(And the curse is tier 2, hence my point)

[voodoogroves]

Alright, I see your point. So you're happy about it's "niceness" rather than it's power?

(And the curse is tier 2, hence my point)

Right, that's why I mentioned the curse, the tier-2-ness of it. The biggest value I see in 3 is the movement capability (again, for my style). Less about "niceness" and more about what it brings to the table AFTER the curse. Frankly my Tukaw may go with fire and ignore tier 3, but I'm retooling my 15 to be air-spec'd and hitting 18 ASAP.

The bulk of the game I'm not standing in a circle around a stack of hit points twitching. For those other times, that leap movement is great. There are a number of quests or areas that having that boost lets me do things on my monk or FVS that my other toons simply can not do. It makes the time required to do X shorter, it's just that X isn't always attacking a stack of hit points.


If the game were just attacking a stationary pile of hit points, I wouldn't play it.

If I can get out to ADQ in 1:30 instead of 2:00, if I can skip an area I don't want to deal with or more easily bypass a trap and not waste time - that an important advantage to me.

[Jaid314]

frankly, the fire ability is just not that big a deal to me.

earth and water both have much more appealing choices when it comes to special abilities (single target CC, probably bypasses spell resistance, and can get the save DC buffed pretty easily? what's not to like!).

and air... well, i don't know that the air ability is as *strong*, but it *will* be appreciated. now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to go wing around and drop ice storms in the favored soul's blade barriers ^^

[fugazi70]

I know that they said that the stoneskin cap was being removed so that you can cast a 260 stoneskin with earth 3 but what about firewall? Will the fw cap be removed or raised to accomodate the fire speced sorc?

[sirdanile]

Alright, I see your point. So you're happy about it's "niceness" rather than it's power?

(And the curse is tier 2, hence my point)

Yeah, the niceness of the given abilities at t-3 is great, also t-2 requires a spell focus that I need to respec for so t-3 was the deal breaker.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

I don't know. Being able to cast spells without Concentration checks is pretty handy. And spells with long casting times still stand to benefit from quicken.

Perhaps on a Tukaw-like builds for casting haste and rage in the thick of battle, I suppose, but I personally don't consider those types of builds "casters". If you do CC and/or Nuking, very, very rarely you get a concentration check and for a non-Human fleshie sorc, a feat is far too expensive to use on non-essential metamagic.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Right, that's why I mentioned the curse, the tier-2-ness of it. The biggest value I see in 3 is the movement capability (again, for my style). Less about "niceness" and more about what it brings to the table AFTER the curse. Frankly my Tukaw may go with fire and ignore tier 3, but I'm retooling my 15 to be air-spec'd and hitting 18 ASAP.

The bulk of the game I'm not standing in a circle around a stack of hit points twitching. For those other times, that leap movement is great. There are a number of quests or areas that having that boost lets me do things on my monk or FVS that my other toons simply can not do. It makes the time required to do X shorter, it's just that X isn't always attacking a stack of hit points.


If the game were just attacking a stationary pile of hit points, I wouldn't play it.

If I can get out to ADQ in 1:30 instead of 2:00, if I can skip an area I don't want to deal with or more easily bypass a trap and not waste time - that an important advantage to me.

Yea, the leap is no doubt going to be great for normal / hard / elite quests. Especially when leveling 18-20.
I'm going to go fire 1>18, then elec 18-20, then ice at 20.

Going to be nice to "leap" through amrath quests and then ball lightning / chain lightning / free-lightning the groups you've pulled.

[Zachski]

Human:
1:Toughness
1h:SF Evocation
3: Maximuze.
6: Empower.
9: Extend.
12:Heigthen.
15:Spell Pen.
18: GSF Evocation.

If TR then take Arcane Feat over one SF, if possible pending Dev changes.

I prefer Evocation SF since if I'm going Savant, might as well go to strengths and forget weaknesses. Some CC but more nuker

Why are you taking GSF Evocation? It's not required for the PrE.

[lugoman]

Who said anything about two spell focus feats? Only one is necessary. (Or the Dragonmark, for Air.)

Does spell focus from an epic item count?

[Solmage]

Is there any chance the ToD sets will be changed so that they provide a bonus that stacks with gear (I don't care too much which bonus, just SOMETHING to make wearing a set worthwhile) and that the rings will be changed to exceptional charisma?

[+6 cha +1 exceptional would be nice, but I'm willing to work with base stat dependant on element (con for earth, str for fire, etc) provided we get the exceptional cha+1. Kind of silly having to use a paladin ring for that]