Savant Prestige Information

[Malithar45]

This really isn't the place to teach you the basics of caster creation, but add up the number of enhancement points you need to spend to get to max charisma. Do the same for the drow. You will see that a human will need to spend 8 more enhancement points to get there and match the drow (at present max charima is an odd number).

Teach me. You seem to know something no one else does. And I added up the points to get max Cha and Con on a Human and WF. Human would be 6 APs for +1 Cha and +1 Con, WF would be 6 APs for +2 Con. The APs you'd spend on a Drow for those are....0, because they don't have any. Again, what are you talking about? And hell, you said yourself max Cha is an odd number. So, why go Drow and start with 20 when you can go Human, start at 18 and take an enhancement to hit even? /boggled

The rest is simple math. 7 (your number) + 8 (the extra points spent to get max charisma) leads to a total of 15. There are people who play drow who take toughness. Taking toughness is not directly related to your character race. However, someone who does not find the need for it (be they WF, human or whatever) frees up a lot of enhancement points and a feat. More people will be taking that route in the future, I guarantee you.

My math was, assuming you go Human, you're already taking +1 Cha at the cost of 2 APs, so the cost for Toughness III (which really has no barring on the discussion, but its to be considered) is 3 APs, and +1 Con is 4 APs, thus 7. So, what's your math to get 8 APs on Drow? They have no enhancements for either. And no, unless power creep for HP approaches a new degree, you won't see people dropping Toughness anytime soon. 1 Feat and 3 APs for +42 HP is very hard to beat. And I never said Toughness was related to race, only that you mentioned having to use a feat for Toughness as a Human to "go that route" when Human already provides its own extra feat. What is that route? Squishy? Explain, by all means.

[wax_on_wax_off]

i agree, but from what I infer from that other guys posts


he's saying we doing one of two things:
~~~(i think these come to 32 pts for human)~~~
12 random stat, 18 cha, 14 con
12 random stat, 14 cha, 18 con

like what else are we going to logically put into besides just con/cha?

nothing else is gonna matter end game with an extra 2-4 pts in.. i'd say dumpstat str if you have 2 pts leftover (28pt, 34/36 point builds)

Your math is faulty, that adds up to only 26 points. Putting a stat to 18 costs 16 points (half of a 32 point build allocation) so you can start with 18 constitution and 18 charisma.

There are a few other stat considerations for a sorcerer. Namely, strength at low levels for melee and high levels for encumbrance and having enough intelligence to get all desired skills (I'd suggest Concentration, UMD and intimidate. Other options include balance and diplomacy).

start:
drow: 20cha/16/con
human: 18cha/18con

Your maths is faulty too. For a drow to get 20 charisma and 16 constitution they have to be a 32 point build which is a double TR job, have fun!

(That means drow will have a 40 HP deficit and be short a feat, better to go human, imo.

[Asketes]

Your math is faulty, that adds up to only 26 points. Putting a stat to 18 costs 16 points (half of a 32 point build allocation) so you can start with 18 constitution and 18 charisma.

There are a few other stat considerations for a sorcerer. Namely, strength at low levels for melee and high levels for encumbrance and having enough intelligence to get all desired skills (I'd suggest Concentration, UMD and intimidate. Other options include balance and diplomacy).



Your maths is faulty too. For a drow to get 20 charisma and 16 constitution they have to be a 32 point build which is a double TR job, have fun!

(That means drow will have a 40 HP deficit and be short a feat, better to go human, imo.

yeah drow would be what 20cha/14con +2 extra pts somewhere else? (drow are 32, just some points are pre-spread out)

and human 32pt is 18cha/18con this i am correct on

i covered myself by saying i'm not sure my math is good. i'm playing minecraft while i respond. fortunately for me

REGARDLESS of the *fawlty* math, you get the jist of what i was saying.

so why are you worried about my math instead of Elvis' ridiculous logic? Read his posts and then respond to those faulty posts

intimidate on a sorc can be used really well IF you have the build points to spend on the extra int or don't like balance/concentration or CON :P

[wax_on_wax_off]

yeah drow would be what 20cha/14con +2 extra pts somewhere else? (drow are 32, just some points are pre-spread out)

and human 32pt is 18cha/18con this i am correct on

i covered myself by saying i'm not sure my math is good. i'm playing minecraft while i respond. fortunately for me

REGARDLESS of the *fawlty* math, you get the jist of what i was saying.

so why are you worried about my math instead of Elvis' ridiculous logic? Read his posts and then respond to those faulty posts

intimidate on a sorc can be used really well IF you have the build points to spend on the extra int or don't like balance/concentration or CON :P

I don't have the attention span to read that far back

I'm thinking intimidate on my sorc as human/34 point build

[TDarkchylde]

From what I've seen, my Warforged 18/2 Sorc/Pally with full Intimidate is definitely going Fire Savant. As for my pure Drow Sorc, most likely Air, but I might also wait to see what Acolyte of the Skin brings us in a decade. :P

[dunklezhan]

>sound analysis<

so... what am *i* going to propose as a probable spell list in the future? assuming not much changes:

>thoughful choices<

so, damaging spells:

>some assumptions<.

Great post, I wonder if I can bookmark it somehow.

[Alcamez]

Sorcerer Air Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Air Savant II, Storm Manipulation VII, Charged Spellcasting V, Deadly Shocks V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II, Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II, or Greater Dragonmark of Storm
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over lightning. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting air or electrical spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your acid or earth spells. Your electrical resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of electrical resistance of opponents. You can cast the Lightning Bolt spell as a spell-like ability. You are now immune to most knockdown effects (but not slippery surfaces), can leap through the air with incredible grace, and an additional +2 bonus to the Tumble skill.

Inherent Lightning Bolt
Benefit: You are able to cast Lightning Bolt as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Wind Dance
Benefit: You leap through the air, propelled by a gust of wind. (Cost: 5 sp; Abundant Step effect, 6 sec cooldown)



Call lightning, electric specd, abundant step wow this looks promising. Hmm if I can only finda a way to heal my self has a half elf sorc ohh yeah take the cleric dilly line and just use scrolls ugg silly me.

[Siskel]

No reason to spend 19 on a whole line though. 7 to get +40% damage, 1 on each of the criticals = 9 total, can get all 4 like this for just 36 points. Add a few extra to qualify for PrE's and your done.

Well, for my lightning/cold specced Savant I'll get the prereqs to qualify for Air Savant III, full damage and 1 AP in the critical range and critical damage enhancements for cold, fire and force (which includes disintegrate and cyclonic blast).

17 for lightning lines (only need tier 5 in crit lines to qualify)
9 for cold
9 for fire
9 for force (I'll dump reconstruct and take disintegrate)

total of 44 APs spent so far and I will have:
+40% damage for fire, cold, lightning, force, disintegrate, cyclonic blast, magic missile etc.
+8% chance to critical for +115% damage with lightning
+4% chance to critical for +75% damage with fire, cold, force, untyped spells

Energy of the Dragonblooded II and Improved Maximise II will also make an appearance as prereqs for 9 AP.

53 AP gone. 27 left.

12 Charisma III
2 Human Adaptability: Charisma I
6 Wand and Scroll Mastery III (maybe need IV for recon'ing considering lacking the spell)
2 Bloodline of Power

5 left.
2 Improved Recovery
1 Human Versatility
2 Spell Penetration I

Spell Penetration II-III?
Subtle Spellcasting I-IV?
Greater Adaptability: Constitution?
Improved Empower?

Work in progress ...

I am not seeing Improved Maximize or Empower II which I thought was a prereq for Tier 3.

I am considering dropping all spell penetration feats and enhancements. Using web with a double focus in conjuration. If human maybe I can swing dropping toughness feat and picking up spell focus enchantment. Mass Hold Monster does not have a SR check. Really though I am going to have to wait and see how things play out with the spell changes, but I am heavily leaning water savant.

[B0ltdrag0n]

Call lightning, electric specd, abundant step wow this looks promising. Hmm if I can only finda a way to heal my self has a half elf sorc ohh yeah take the cleric dilly line and just use scrolls ugg silly me.[/INDENT]

Think again. I hear the FVS line would work easier for a build that is dumping its wis.

[voodoogroves]

Sorcerer Air Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Air Savant II, Storm Manipulation VII, Charged Spellcasting V, Deadly Shocks V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II, Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II, or Greater Dragonmark of Storm
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over lightning. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting air or electrical spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your acid or earth spells. Your electrical resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of electrical resistance of opponents. You can cast the Lightning Bolt spell as a spell-like ability. You are now immune to most knockdown effects (but not slippery surfaces), can leap through the air with incredible grace, and an additional +2 bonus to the Tumble skill.

Inherent Lightning Bolt
Benefit: You are able to cast Lightning Bolt as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Wind Dance
Benefit: You leap through the air, propelled by a gust of wind. (Cost: 5 sp; Abundant Step effect, 6 sec cooldown)



Call lightning, electric specd, abundant step wow this looks promising. Hmm if I can only finda a way to heal my self has a half elf sorc ohh yeah take the cleric dilly line and just use scrolls ugg silly me.

Half Elf Monk 2 / Sorc 18 (paladin dilettane)

Wands at early levels, UMD heal scrolls later.

Monk (2): Toughness, Lightning Reflexes
Normal (7): Extend, Empower, Mazimize, Quicken + 3 (dragonmarks or spell pen / focus)

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

I'm not liking the idea of taking a hit in the opposing school. My sorc is ice-specced which means I'd nerf my firewall. Those who take fire will nerf their Polar Ray. Doesn't sound like I'll be taking this PRE that I've been so excited about.

You know D&D is a game of tradeoffs, right? I think the opposing penalties seem more than fair given the benefits you get. In the world of D&D the balance game is usually based on "you can't have the cake and eat it too." Yeah sometimes classes get the shorter end of the stick, but that's the nature of the beast.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

So, I guess the real question is do you take spell focus: conjuration at level 12 or spell focus: evocation? I'm thinking spell focus: conjuration for the boost to web but is thinking about CC outdated or?

Is there any other race to choose besides Human?

The feat layout that I might go with: Maximise, Empower, Extend, Heighten, Spell Focus: Conjuration, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus: Enchantment

Constitution: 18 base + 1 human + 6 item + 2 tome + 3 exceptional + 2 ship + 2 yugo = 34
HP without toughness = 20 base + 80 sorcerer + 10 Draconic + 30 GFL + 20 Minos + 45 GS + 240 con = 445, plenty.

I hate to be that guy, but I can assure you more than one person will suggest you TR Wiz x2 and FvS x2 so that you can free up the spell pen feats. I makes no sense to me that Devs would try to design the game based on TR feats.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Half Elf Monk 2 / Sorc 18 (paladin dilettane)

Wands at early levels, UMD heal scrolls later.

Monk (2): Toughness, Lightning Reflexes
Normal (7): Extend, Empower, Mazimize, Quicken + 3 (dragonmarks or spell pen / focus)

Quicken on a Fleshie (in this case Helf) on a sorcerer is an utter waste of a feat.

[Raiderone]

Sorcerer Air Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Air Savant II, Storm Manipulation VII, Charged Spellcasting V, Deadly Shocks V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II, Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II, or Greater Dragonmark of Storm
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over lightning. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting air or electrical spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your acid or earth spells. Your electrical resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of electrical resistance of opponents. You can cast the Lightning Bolt spell as a spell-like ability. You are now immune to most knockdown effects (but not slippery surfaces), can leap through the air with incredible grace, and an additional +2 bonus to the Tumble skill.

Inherent Lightning Bolt
Benefit: You are able to cast Lightning Bolt as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Wind Dance
Benefit: You leap through the air, propelled by a gust of wind. (Cost: 5 sp; Abundant Step effect, 6 sec cooldown)



Call lightning, electric specd, abundant step wow this looks promising. Hmm if I can only finda a way to heal my self has a half elf sorc ohh yeah take the cleric dilly line and just use scrolls ugg silly me.

I'd say your better off going Human Sorc with UMD so you dont waste 6 AP on Cleric Dilettante line. PLus the buyup in Wis will not be needed.

I like Air Savant and Fire Savant. Maybe I'll go AS on my VIP account and FS on free account.

Too bad AS isnt immune to crippling. It should be!

[Coldin]

Quicken on a Fleshie (in this case Helf) on a sorcerer is an utter waste of a feat.

I don't know. Being able to cast spells without Concentration checks is pretty handy. And spells with long casting times still stand to benefit from quicken.

[voodoogroves]

Quicken on a Fleshie (in this case Helf) on a sorcerer is an utter waste of a feat.

Matter of opinion.

You and I must play very differently. I'm not a hang-back caster. Quicken isn't to speed casting, it's to get off the important spell.

More useful for reconstruct as well? Sure. Utter waste? Hyperbole.

[Kralael]

Too bad AS isnt immune to crippling. It should be!

This.

[Raiderone]

Let me make a development on my feat progression for a human:
1: Maximise
1: Spell Focus: Conjuration (good for early optimal acid spec + niacs cold ray)
3: Empower
6: Extend Spell
9: Heighten Spell
12: Spell Penetration
15: Greater Spell Penetration
18: Spell Focus: Enchantment
18: Swap Spell Focus: Conjuration for Spell Focus: Evocation

Overall, I'm a bit worried about my enchantment and necromancy DCs as I really appreciate the higher DCs on my wizard. Perhaps it won't be a big deal in the long run with gear but it will be annoying for a while that much is obvious.

Human:
1:Toughness
1h:SF Evocation
3: Maximuze.
6: Empower.
9: Extend.
12:Heigthen.
15:Spell Pen.
18: GSF Evocation.

If TR then take Arcane Feat over one SF, if possible pending Dev changes.

I prefer Evocation SF since if I'm going Savant, might as well go to strengths and forget weaknesses. Some CC but more nuker

[voodoogroves]

I'm still liking air. Still thinking out loud.

Helpless is now going to be normalized. Hold and stun are, it seems, going to generate a very similar state.

Greater Shout is evocation and has no SR check w/ a fort save for stun. Cyclonic blast also has no SR required and generates a knockdown. Electric loop is low-level daze.

Lit2 vulnerability curse.

Docent of Defiance drawback can be minimized with the AS3 movement boost.


For a non-SR CC options, an 18/2 split may be very workable. The question is what goes in those other levels for the biggest bang/buck.


Extend, Heighten, Empower, Maximize, Quicken, SF Evocation, GSF Evocation as base 7

Other class(es) could provide up to 2 more feats and additional capabilities.

Monk 2 - Toughness, Lightning Reflexes maybe?
Pal2 - Martial profs, CHA to saves
etc.

[Angelus_dead]

Helpless is now going to be normalized. Hold and stun are, it seems, going to generate a very similar state.

Greater Shout is evocation and has no SR check w/ a fort save for stun.

You're getting pretty confused over a game term that DDO uses ambiguously. Essentially DDO contains both Greater Stun and Lesser Stun, which are both Stun effects and labelled simply as "Stun".

"Greater Stun" is from Stunning Blow, Stunning Fist, Kukan-do, or zero Constitution, and it is the one that is already equivalent to Hold as far as vulnerability. The devs called it a "helpless" state, so both Hold and Greater Stun give autocrits now, and will give +50% damage in the future. They also enable Sneak Attack.
"Lesser Stun" is from Soundburst or Greater Shout, and it provides only Sneak Attack opportunity, not autocrits. In the future the expectation is that it will continue to function as it does now. This kind of stun was never "helpless", so it would not be effected by the change.


An important note to keep in mind is that Heavy Fortification blocks autocrits from Greater Stun today, but won't block +X% damage from the future version. So player characters who currently don't worry much about a little stun may soon suffer more from it.