Savant Prestige Information

[Zachski]

Well the devs aren't doing a very good job then, theres not choice here to make except to wait and hope theres better to come.

Your playstyle's going to be changed anyways, dude, what with having to pick specific elements for your enhancements rather than getting a package deal.

It's not like before where, if you wanted to be a fire sorc, your secondary element was locked into cold. Now you can get fire and electricity, cold and acid, fire and force, etc.

Considering I pretty much exclusively play Human sorcs anyways, I think I'll be able to squeeze in the necessary feat somewhere. Drow Sorcs can just focus on CC anyways, what with having higher DCs.

Not to mention Sorcerer isn't the only one whose PrEs involve giving up something. Just look at Archmage - sure, it gives you SP, but you have to spend MORE SP than you gain in order to get some of the side benefits. Everything from raising your DC to gaining spell like abilities costs SP, and guess what? Wizards actually have issues with SP :P

[bobbryan2]

That's how you know the devs are doing a good job... Choices should ALWAYS be difficult... That's the mark of a good game.

It's only a hard decision because I'm already a TRed sorc... otherwise it's not a choice at all.. Just go wizard.

[muffinlad]

Nope, no one on Thelanis here..... As I said, I am seriously doubtful elemental forms were even talked about for this PrE. Everything I am seeing about the PrE points to it being designed in about 15 mins, by someone who has never played a caster.

Who knows, maybe I AM wrong and tier 3 makes Savant the bees knees.... I am seriously doubtful of that, but would be pleasantly surprised if they did.

This can be summed up with "I hope you are wrong, but I don't think you are...."

and that would be my take, but I toss in my own desire to look at the whole picture first and then make a call if this is a good thing.

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Note- You could still be a Fire and Ice Sorcerer, it would just be harder if you chose to be a Savant of one of them. So far, I am not seeing a "MUST HAVE" like I do on Wizard PrEs. Perhaps Tier III's will change that?

Regs,

muffingrumble.

[Jaid314]

That's how you know the devs are doing a good job... Choices should ALWAYS be difficult... That's the mark of a good game.

hard choice for who?

for me it's extremely easy. i wouldn't touch this festering pile of worm-infested manure with a 29.5 foot pole. barring something incredibly good in all content for the third tier, this is going to be the easiest decision ever.

hmmm... i can:

1) lose my cheap double-spec in fire/ice (new enhancements required).
2) lose effectiveness in some of the spells i have that are actually good, losing variety of options.
3) lose a bunch more AP in crappy prerequisites.
4) lose a feat to a crappy prerequisite for a DC bonus in something i don't care all that much about.
5) lose a bonus to my DC in something that i *do* care about a lot. (tied to point 4).

in exchange, i will gain some cheap SLAs that i will almost never use, some bonus damage to the spells that don't matter anyways, and some minor assorted bonuses that are practically a joke. oh, and eventually, in the handful of fights that last long enough, i will maybe get +75% damage, *if* the boss isn't immune and *if* the boss is constantly around to curse at the right time.

frankly, the few bosses i actually do bother casting damage spells at, i am doing that because i don't have anything else constructive to do with my SP. i do it because otherwise i'd be standing there with nothing to do whatsoever. so now, i'll be better at spamming damage spells on harry in shroud (oh goody!), but really only in part 5, after the point where your shroud run has pretty much already reached the make-or-break stage, and maybe lailat (depending on the range of the curse). i can't think offhand of another raid boss where i'm going to be able to get to +75% damage (or likely even +45% damage, often not even +30%) and where i'm likely to even be DPSing in the first place.

[Saravis]

The reason why you have to take more penalty than you get in bonus is a balance issue. When you can focus on the bonus and just avoid the penalty, then the bonus is much more significant than the penalty.

Because of that, the penalty should be at least a *little* more significant than the bonus. Think about the Fire Savant. They get significant bonuses to their fire spells and they lose... Polar Ray and Frost Lance. That's about it. Sure, Harry will be a little slower to beat down since you won't be cycling through those spells anymore, but you'll have the Force spells to fall back on, too.

Big bonus. Less significant penalty.

Reluctant to accept that Polar Ray and Frost Lance will be the only spells that a Fire Savant loses out on considering that there is an expected spell revamp. We'll see.

Don't just look at Harry, look at ALL enemies that are immune to fire. Having to fall back on spells that are lacking in comparison to what I was doing before, is counterbalancing in a negative way.

This PrE does nothing to improve the overall functionality of the sorc. You may gain in damage against some enemies, but you lose out in damage against others.

[Jaid314]

Your playstyle's going to be changed anyways, dude, what with having to pick specific elements for your enhancements rather than getting a package deal.

It's not like before where, if you wanted to be a fire sorc, your secondary element was locked into cold. Now you can get fire and electricity, cold and acid, fire and force, etc.

Considering I pretty much exclusively play Human sorcs anyways, I think I'll be able to squeeze in the necessary feat somewhere. Drow Sorcs can just focus on CC anyways, what with having higher DCs.

Not to mention Sorcerer isn't the only one whose PrEs involve giving up something. Just look at Archmage - sure, it gives you SP, but you have to spend MORE SP than you gain in order to get some of the side benefits. Everything from raising your DC to gaining spell like abilities costs SP, and guess what? Wizards actually have issues with SP :P

are you kidding me? i'm not gonna respec my enhancements unless this thing improves massively, or the acolyte of the skin comes out and isn't a total waste of time also.

[Zachski]

are you kidding me? i'm not gonna respec my enhancements unless this thing improves massively, or the acolyte of the skin comes out and isn't a total waste of time also.

They'll probably remove the enhancements from the game entirely, like they did with the class specific skill bonuses.

[Kirlian]

Who said anything about two spell focus feats? Only one is necessary. (Or the Dragonmark, for Air.)

tier 1 requres feat empowered or maximise, now to get second tier sorc needs second feat that is two, Can you tell me what sorc should drop? heighten? That second feat is really too much to ask.

[Zachski]

tier 1 requres feat empowered or maximise, now to get second tier sorc needs second feat that is two, Can you tell me what sorc should drop? heighten? That second feat is really too much to ask.

Uh...
What Sorcerer doesn't have Empower AND Maximize?

That's like saying Warchanters have to sacrifice AP to boost their song's +damage and +attack.

[Siskel]

tier 1 requres feat empowered or maximise, now to get second tier sorc needs second feat that is two, Can you tell me what sorc should drop? heighten? That second feat is really too much to ask.

Maximize and empower are not spell focus feats, and you are going to run a Sorcerer without either one? It is a freebie feat requirement.

[bradleyforrest]

tier 1 requres feat empowered or maximise, now to get second tier sorc needs second feat that is two, Can you tell me what sorc should drop? heighten? That second feat is really too much to ask.

Let's be honest here. They're really only asking you to give up a single feat. You can't tell me that you were going to build a nuking Sorc without either Maximize or Empower. That prerequisite was going to be fulfilled no matter what.

[dkyle]

tier 1 requres feat empowered or maximise, now to get second tier sorc needs second feat that is two, Can you tell me what sorc should drop? heighten? That second feat is really too much to ask.

Requiring Empower or Maximise is like requiring Power Attack for Frenzied Berserker. Yeah, it's a prereq, but it's not really a cost. An elemental savant would have to be insane not to take at least one of them.

But I agree that the spell focus prereq is excessive.

[muffinlad]

hard choice for who?

for me it's extremely easy. i wouldn't touch this festering pile of worm-infested manure with a 29.5 foot pole.

You're a mean one...Mr Grinch! (ha)

I agree it is not looking too advantageous at this point....

No amount of singing Yahoo-Dor-Ay will get me to like this until I see what Tier III has to say.

My horns and fake red nose are firmly in place....

muffinhound

[Siskel]

Requiring Empower or Maximise is like requiring Power Attack for Frenzied Berserker. Yeah, it's a prereq, but it's not really a cost. An elemental savant would have to be insane not to take at least one of them.

But I agree that the spell focus prereq is excessive.

I am thinking I will be using conjuration for my focus and using web as my CC in the future. May even take a double focus and not worry about spell resistance feats. We are just going to have to see how all the changes work themselves out.

[Geonis]

You're a mean one...Mr Grinch! (ha)

I agree it is not looking too advantageous at this point....

No amount of singing Yahoo-Dor-Ay will get me to like this until I see what Tier III has to say.

My horns and fake red nose are firmly in place....

muffinhound

Not looking too advantageous?

This looks like it hurts a Sorc to take this PrE so far....

That is not a good way to start a "Prestige Enahncement".

[Trillea]

I am thinking I will be using conjuration for my focus and using web as my CC in the future. May even take a double focus and not worry about spell resistance feats. We are just going to have to see how all the changes work themselves out.

Agreed, if the changes to helplessness (mass hold) are severe, this may well be the way to go in the long run. You get a long duration, no spell resistance, and reflex saves are usually lower than will saves on most endgame monsters.

[BlackSteel]

are you kidding me? i'm not gonna respec my enhancements unless this thing improves massively, or the acolyte of the skin comes out and isn't a total waste of time also.

looks fair to me TBH, the PrE turns you into an even better nuker in your chosen element.

lets see, you get:

bonus damage dice on your chosen element spells above their 'cap'
you get to lower the resistance of your targets simply by looking at them.
you get a debuff that makes a target vulnerable, and take even more damage
and you get free spammable damage spells.

and we havent even seen t3 yet.

at the cost of making the damage from the opposing element a waste of spell points.


had the elements never been grouped up to start with I dont think we would see such anger at the PrE. The fact that you get to have max damage in both fire and cold for the same cost has spoiled us. Had they been seperated before the PrE's, you would already have atleast a few people with specs in other combinations.

Not to mention having a fire sorceror, much less a highly specialized one in the form of a savant, being just as specialized in cold spells doesnt really mesh thematically.

[HarveyMilk]

I have to disagree with... well, everyone it seems, and go out on a limb and say that these two tiers look great. Yes, you can no longer own fire and cold, which is a significant game changer (fire for epics, cold for raid bosses, traditionally), but things are changing.

I personally can not wait for the flexibility, the added spell flavors, the new epic, all of it. Plus, we haven't even seen the last tier, and any possible change/fix to the sorc capstone.

This new thing is looking hot, especially now that we know the feat pre-reqs are the same for all savants. So it's just an AP respec away to refocus on any school? That means you can juggle the savants depending on your raid timers. It really sounds like it'll breathe life into the sorc nukers. Hot.

[Geonis]

Wouldn't mind at least a "skimmed by a Dev" post.

Thinking the fact they went silent over 2 hours ago, is that maybe they are finally seeing things like the players do, but would like some confirmation this car wreck may get a "fail master" type revision prior to release.

[Siskel]

I don't think it will be bad at all. Go Water Savant and specialize in Force too. You can use the following spells:

Force Spells, disintegrate, Horrid Wilting, Polar Ray, Ice Storm, Ice Lance, and the SLA.

You can even throw in some other cold spells if needed. I will also plan on taking the prismatic spells to see if they work like they do now and any of the enhancement lines work on them. Should be plenty of nuking. The only real area where you will be weak is undead and that depends on how some of the spells work out. Scorching ray may still have some value, but you may have not enhancements for it. Going to have to play around with the enhancement costs.