Savant Prestige Information

[fuzzy1guy]

Something else that needs a look this update if it hasnt been done yet.

The fog spells... Are they ACTUALLY GOING TO SLOW ENEMIES IN THEM BY A USABLE #?

They claim 40%. But in testing on the live server... where it counts.. it's more like 4% (and thats being generous)

[Requiro]

(...)
Also, Acid arrow caps out at 20 instead of 30?
(...)

Lightning bolt is level 3 or 4 spell. Probably 4 level
Acid arrow is level 2 spell.

Every caster who likes killing instead of hurting.

Ok. I thought about Wizards at that moment

[Renegade66]

Update 9 sounds like a pretty big change for casters. Will most damage spells have their damage cap removed?

This is a huge point. So far, I have not seen any indication that damage caps will be removed.

Spells with higher than CL 20:
Chain Lightning (no max?)
Necrotic Ray (no max?)
Polar Ray (max CL 25)

[Lycurgus]

And alot of these wizards have taken zero spell pen feats/enhancments.

Any wizard interested in dealing with epic drow is busy going through past lives to get their spell pen up to snuff. I'm more concerned that the combined AP cost of increased max elemental damage + the AM Pre is going to pigeonhole the wizard class, forcing it to be (even more of) a "one-trick pony."

That said, it's good to see sorcs getting a truly interesting set of options. Thanks to Eladrin and the devs for the hard work. Introducing something like this without breaking the game has got to be a monstrous balancing act.

[Saravis]

Here's another thing I'm wondering about and pardon me if its already been answered, but what sort of relation is heighten going to have with the CL loss for the opposing Savant. At lvl 20, with heighten, how much would something like Cone of Cold cost if you had the Fire Savant? Would you still have the same cost as a lvl 20, would the cost be reduced to a lvl 11, or would heighten reboost the lvl back up to 20 after the CL loss?

[Jonandu]

This is a huge point. So far, I have not seen any indication that damage caps will be removed.

Spells with higher than CL 20:
Chain Lightning (no max?)
Necrotic Ray (no max?)
Polar Ray (max CL 25)

damage caps worry me as well....

who cares if i'm caster lvl 28 if it caps at 25 and so on....

another question is immunities will still suck if we cant bypass that...

If i go fire savant then no polar ray, lame.....

I do like what I hear, just hate some of it as well...

[Requiro]

Any wizard interested in dealing with epic drow is busy going through past lives to get their spell pen up to snuff. I'm more concerned that the combined AP cost of increased max elemental damage + the AM Pre is going to pigeonhole the wizard class, forcing it to be (even more of) a "one-trick pony."

That said, it's good to see sorcs getting a truly interesting set of options. Thanks to Eladrin and the devs for the hard work. Introducing something like this without breaking the game has got to be a monstrous balancing act.

I post some time ago my proposal for AM. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=279305

With this new spell changes, new PrE and overall casting abilites rework of AM should be made very quick. Same as PM

[Jaid314]

Here's another thing I'm wondering about and pardon me if its already been answered, but what sort of relation is heighten going to have with the CL loss for the opposing Savant. At lvl 20, with heighten, how much would something like Cone of Cold cost if you had the Fire Savant? Would you still have the same cost as a lvl 20, would the cost be reduced to a lvl 11, or would heighten reboost the lvl back up to 20 after the CL loss?

heighten doesn't effect caster level. it works on save DC. save DC is completely unaffected by the savant lines.

[Requiro]

(...)

Sorcerer Earth Savant I
(...) You gain +2 caster levels when casting acid and earth spells and increase the maximum caster level of these spells by 1(...)

damage caps worry me as well....
who cares if i'm caster lvl 28 if it caps at 25 and so on....
(...)

If I understand this correctly, maximum of caster level cap will be increase in that PrEs. So you get max 28 (with Tier 3 PrE) with Polar Ray and 23 with rest water spells

[Siskel]

Here's the current list of spells by type:

Air Spells:
Ball Lightning, Chain Lightning, Cyclonic Blast, Electric Loop, Gust of Wind, Eladar's Electric Surge, Electric Loop, Featherfall, Gust of Wind, Lightning Bolt, Protection from Energy (Electricity), Resist Energy (Electricity), Shocking Grasp, a couple of Summon Monsters
Technically also includes Call Lightning Storm. May be modified to include sonic spells like Shout.

Earth Spells:
Acid Blast, Acid Fog, Acid Rain, Acid Splash, Acid Spray, Burning Blood, Cloudkill, Flesh to Stone, Melf's Acid Arrow, Meteor Swarm, Protection from Energy (Acid), Resist Energy (Acid), Stoneskin, Stone to Flesh, a couple of Summon Monsters

Fire Spells:
Burning Blood, Burning Hands, Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Fire, Fireball, Fire Shield (Hot), Fire Trap, Flame Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Incendiary Cloud, Meteor Swarm, Protection from Energy (Fire), Resist Energy (Fire), Scorching Ray, a couple of Summon Monsters, Symbol of Flame, Wall of Fire
Technically also includes Flame Strike, Firestorm

Water Spells:
Cone of Cold, Fire Shield (Cold), Frost Lance, Horrid Wilting, Ice Storm, Merfolk's Blessing, Niac's Biting Cold, Niac's Cold Ray, Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray, Protection from Energy (Cold), Ray of Frost, Resist Energy (Cold), Sleet Storm, Snowball Swarm, a couple of Summon Monsters, Water Breathing

Will Meteor Swarm's damage be enhance by the fire, earth and force enhancement lines? Do they stack or just the highest value?

[Carpone]

I really hope the increased PrE caster level has been tested (and works with) the Epic Staff of Arcane Power and the Greater Might of the Abishai set.

[Missing_Minds]

Lightning bolt is level 3 or 4 spell. Probably 4 level
Acid arrow is level 2 spell.

Acid is a lvl 2 yes, but lighting is a lvl 3. Forking was allowed in PnP but only once, now it looks to fork a heck of a lot more, making it more powerful.

AA was 2d4, for a few turns. Actually... while it may have a +lvl (cap 20) added... AH HELL... AA got nerfed badly, esp if you crit often.

"duration of 12 seconds". Considering it ticks only once every 3 seconds, that is 4 ticks.

PnP: For every three caster levels (to a maximum of 18th)
That means PnP gets 6 ticks compared to the new max of 4 ticks.

I think the current implimentation doesn't stick a cap on duration, but it is based on caster lvel as I'm pretty certain I got more than 6 ticks in game from a single spell.

(Now granted if I'm wrong, I expect people are going to correct me.)

[Jaid314]

Acid is a lvl 2 yes, but lighting is a lvl 3. Forking was allowed in PnP but only once, now it looks to fork a heck of a lot more, making it more powerful.

AA was 2d4, for a few turns. Actually... while it may have a +lvl (cap 20) added... AH HELL... AA got nerfed badly, esp if you crit often.

"duration of 12 seconds". Considering it ticks only once every 3 seconds, that is 4 ticks.

PnP: For every three caster levels (to a maximum of 18th)
That means PnP gets 6 ticks compared to the new max of 4 ticks.

I think the current implimentation doesn't stick a cap on duration, but it is based on caster lvel as I'm pretty certain I got more than 6 ticks in game from a single spell.

(Now granted if I'm wrong, I expect people are going to correct me.)

acid arrow actually got quite a bit better, imo.

note that the damage will be 2d4+1/level instead of just a flat 2d4.

[DevHead]

Amazing info. Thank you very much.

[Saravis]

heighten doesn't effect caster level. it works on save DC. save DC is completely unaffected by the savant lines.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but heighten is affected by caster lvl. Heighten cost is based on caster lvl.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Heighten_Spell

Also wouldn't caster lvl affect DCs? If you refer to Eladrin's earlier post:

(Let's not look at the Air Savant's FtS caster level, it's a little embarassing.)

The only embarrassing thing I could think of in regards to FtS would be DC.

[fuzzy1guy]

With all of these new variables. spell point costs. heighten. maximize. empower variables..

We're starting to have a fairly dire need to assign meta's based on invidividual spells. Or alot of people are going to have to be toggling stuff off/on quite often. With the associated delays in doing so. Not practical.

As eladrin pointed out a heightend fireball would cost more than a delayed blast fireball while never getting close to the same damage.

This would be stupid in use. And alot of people who may not know it are going to be wasting sp for no good reason.

[Artagon]

Acid is a lvl 2 yes, but lighting is a lvl 3. Forking was allowed in PnP but only once, now it looks to fork a heck of a lot more, making it more powerful.

AA was 2d4, for a few turns. Actually... while it may have a +lvl (cap 20) added... AH HELL... AA got nerfed badly, esp if you crit often.

"duration of 12 seconds". Considering it ticks only once every 3 seconds, that is 4 ticks.

PnP: For every three caster levels (to a maximum of 18th)
That means PnP gets 6 ticks compared to the new max of 4 ticks.

I think the current implimentation doesn't stick a cap on duration, but it is based on caster lvel as I'm pretty certain I got more than 6 ticks in game from a single spell.

(Now granted if I'm wrong, I expect people are going to correct me.)

The wording does say it can only happen once here as far as the forking on lightning bolt. Additionally, it still looks like it is still max at 10d6 + whatever the prestige line lets them get up to in additional dice, I'd imagine it would be maxing at 13d6.
As far as Acid Arrow goes.. I'll be honest that I'd rather have the harder ticks than the longer ticks. And extend will still work on it I imagine... thus it's a cheap, single target firewall that follows them wherever it goes and doesn't get dispelled by gust of wind, lol... now if they also sped up the ticks.. I'd be in heaven.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Also wouldn't caster lvl affect DCs? If you refer to Eladrin's earlier post:

The only embarrassing thing I could think of in regards to FtS would be DC.

Caster level can also refer to spell penetration, duration, dispel effects, and potency.

[Shade]

Changes to spells:
Sounds awesome.

Elemental Savant Tier1:
Honestly sounds a bit disapointing/underwealming, at least compared to the madneningly powerful Angel of vegeance tier1 that was recently annonced.
But ultimately lvl6 to 12 doesn't take long, so hopefully tier2/3 are much more impressive.

The biggest disapointment, comparing it to the PnP version:
Lack of Energy substitution. Since its making us so bad at oposed elemental spells, being able to still use those and deal our favored enemies (abeit at a lower caster lvl) would of been fair, and .. fun. Not to mention just having unrelated schools sswithced over to our chosen specialty would be awesome.
Eh, maybe im wrong and the feat is being addedi n update 9 Eladrin? Just not as a prereq? Tell me in im wrong.. please.

And the bits and pieces/fragmented nature of the information: Argh... Sorry not a fan. Could we just get a build on lammania please with release notes so we can actaully find out if any of this cool stuff your talking about acutally works as you say it should.

[charmor]

With all of these new variables. spell point costs. heighten. maximize. empower variables..

We're starting to have a fairly dire need to assign meta's based on invidividual spells.

More than ever.

I really don't want to be paying 6 for an Acid Arrow, and 31 to make it deal double damage. But I also won't be turning Maximize off everytime I want to cast this specific spell. Result: I probably won't bother memorizing this spell at all, which is bad for the game.