Why being accepted to any pug group is a privilege, not a right.

[Disavowed]

I suppose I should /ignore this thread, but I totally disagree with the OP's logic about why he forms parties so felt I should post something on the logic. Having run a healer with another healer on epics quests I feel like I contribute very little in that scenario. We always heal the same target and add little to no dps. What is more is it is so very boring running a healer with another healer in an epic quest. I do not know why any player playing a cleric/fvs unless they want to go afk joins a group with another healer. Wizards or sorcerers can stack with each other and add dps, but often on epics all they casts are enchantment based spells so they do not stack well on epics so some of the same issues emerge that two healers have.

If a melee does 40% of the dps of another melee that melee still contributes more then 2 healers or even two wizards/sorcs on an epic. Just a basic class with prestige enhancements and little to no gear does a certain % of overall dps. Assuming that melee can run up and swing some sort of weapon and has a clue then that is more dps.

In the end the quest gets completed faster unless the party evades the mobs with spells such as invisibility or Charm monster or abilities like fascinate because there is more overall party dps.

I do not care how someone forms their parties. I do not have to join, etc. My point is this logic is flawed if that is what we are talking about is logic.

Well put.

[Thrudh]

Look more poor assumptions. I'm not saying anything of the sort. Your poor assumptions is exactly my issue in the OP.

If you REALLY must know my reasonings for my standard LFM settings. I really think it shouldn't be your any of your concern, but fine I'll explain my playstyle and standard LFM setup - hey here ya go:

I've pugged thousands of quests/raids. When I first started I always took random pug melee like anyone else.

- After several hundred quests... I noticed a pattern: Most New/Pug melee cannot keep up with my own melee characters. They contribute nearly nothing to the quest, despite no matter how skilled or determined they are - simply because they are behind the curve in terms of game knowledge/gear.
- To me - If I started playing later in the games cycle.. This would frusterate me, as I don't really like to quest where I can't make a good contribution.
- Some players may not care about this, but many do.. They often drop group after the first qust I do with comments like "Sorry guys I just cant keep up"
- I prefer to recruit players who will stay for multiple runs, to save from having to do a new lfm often.
- I prefer to take players who can always contribute something, regardless of how new they are to the game. This generally means caster/support classes yes - as cc/buffs are always useful.

Whoops, my last post was made because I thought you said it was about easy completions... Now I know it's because you care about the newbs!

[Thrudh]

What exactly was "absurd" about that LFM? My class selection? What was currently in the group? How do you know I hadn't already filled the group at that point and didnt update lfm? How do you know the last spots arent reserved for different classes? How do you know we werent all going to switch classes?

You don't know.

I think what was absurd, is that you think you can read my mind and know exactly what I was thinking at that moment.

For the record, the last 2 people to join said LFM, were melee. I can give you the exact names if you want. They weren't your melee, thus why your complaining I bet. And that was the first time I ran that quest ever, so I was looking to make it a fun smooth run. But I really shouldn't have to expalin this to you, or anyone else.

It's not like this was the only LFM ever you've put up asking for 5 casters to go along with your one melee.

You can put up any LFM you want. Just recognize there are plenty of good players who snicker when they see Axer put up another ego-maniac LFM. It's really strange that OTHER awesome power-gaming melees don't put up LFMs like that.

Only you.

[Cauthey]

Entitlement: you don't have it.

You're not entitled to join anyone's PUG. Though, you can almost always request to do so.

If Axer doesn't want you, move along. However, politeness and civility goes a long way. If you choose to inquire why you weren't accepted, just remember how you would prefer someone inquire to you if you just rejected them. (Politely.)

Or, if you find an LFM odd, politely inquire as to why it's configured the way it is. You might just learn something (or might just teach the LFM leader something).

[Disavowed]

Look more poor assumptions. I'm not saying anything of the sort. Your poor assumptions is exactly my issue in the OP.

If you REALLY must know my reasonings for my standard LFM settings. I really think it shouldn't be your any of your concern, but fine I'll explain my playstyle and standard LFM setup - hey here ya go:

I've pugged thousands of quests/raids. When I first started I always took random pug melee like anyone else.

- After several hundred quests... I noticed a pattern: Most New/Pug melee cannot keep up with my own melee characters. They contribute nearly nothing to the quest, despite no matter how skilled or determined they are - simply because they are behind the curve in terms of game knowledge/gear.
- To me - If I started playing later in the games cycle.. This would frusterate me, as I don't really like to quest where I can't make a good contribution.
- Some players may not care about this, but many do.. They often drop group after the first qust I do with comments like "Sorry guys I just cant keep up"
- I prefer to recruit players who will stay for multiple runs, to save from having to do a new lfm often.
- I prefer to take players who can always contribute something, regardless of how new they are to the game. This generally means caster/support classes yes - as cc/buffs are always useful.

For players who aren't new, do know me, and have been around a while. They are almost always welcome to my groups as melee.

They need only send a tell as I mentioned in the OP. Alternatively i advertise all my groups in guildchat (without class limits), and for most epic quests - my channel. /Epic.

If you are a player that feels he has melee that can contribute well on Epic. Simply join my chanel /Epic, and respond to my ads in there and if I have melee slots available, I will recruit you without question.

The class selection is to diswayd newer melee player who simply aren't geared, dont know me, and havent' been around a while from trying to join. Rather then having to decline them - which always makes for negative feelings, I try to prevent it from happening in the first place.

- Complete ungeared healers/bards/casters can still make a good contribution on epic quests. Ungeared melee cannot.

-Since endgame I run almost exclusively epic and other difficult content, allowing just any random melee in all too often ends up in disaster with complete ungeared melee dying too much and feeling bad about there lack of contribution.

-It's always worked for me. I've been around so long that I can always get the melee I'd like for whatever quest I run without putting them in an LFM.

- My raid LFMs always include all classes to start. New players who play melee classes are welcome. They can get to know me there, and thus qualify for my epic groups in the future. My weekly epic dragons (tonight) have no requirements what so ever to join aside from having an active forum account.

AGAIN!

You're the same person who slams us for doing speed runs because it doesn't help the newbs it excludes them and exludes them from learning.

Yet in the very statement above you say you specificaly put your LFMs they way they are to exclude newer melee players that might be undergeared. Really? How the F do you expect them to learn or get gear if they can't run the quest? Oh you don't, that's the point! You could care less about a newb or them getting any gear or learning so they can contribute. You only care about you and the gear you may get. One post you say help the newbs the next you say I omnit newbs but I'll bring a vet melee along.

I call you out on it and you duck the question, and as always turn it into I'm the uberest of the uber geeks on DDO reply. Nobody is as good as me so I don't need anybody but me and my personal hirelings to complete a quest. They only reason you wouldn't bring a whole group of hirelings along if the game would allow it. Is because you would have nobody to brag to during the quest about how uber you are.

Also stop filling you're ego. I've been out killed in plenty of quests when I was new to this game. Not once did I ever tap out and say "guys I'm going to bow out I just can't keep up". And I'm certain the the % of time I pug is greater than even the % of time as you pug because we've played the same amount of time, and unlike you I've never been in a guild. So I've pretty much pugged every quest for 5 years. That's 17 capped toons all capped at least once, all with about 2K + in favor, and several of them Trd. That's a ton of pugging. Guess what? Most of the time I'm smoking the kill count too, but I never say anything about it to the players in the group. One thing I've never heard. Is a single player say hey I need to bow out I'm just not able to keep up.

My guess is that you forced them to tap out. Why? Because all you do is talk the whole time about how awesome you are and how all other melees are not near as good as you. Then yes, a newer player might feel worthless and bow out. Why? Because you made him/her feel worthless. The only other logical reason is that this was their way of being polite because they got tired of hearing how great you are from you as I did. FYI the last 2 times I ran with you a VERY LONG time ago each of my rangers outkilled your barb both times only by a few but they did. Yet I still had to hear how great you were the entire time. That's why I've never ran with you again. Yes I tapped out but it wasn't from feeling like I couldn't contribute. It was because I couldn't take the pain of hearing how great you are any longer.

[Thrudh]

Guess what? Most of the time I'm smoking the kill count too, but I never say anything about it to the players in the group. One thing I've never heard. Is a single player say hey I need to bow out I'm just not able to keep up.

This is a good point... I PUG constantly too, and I always lead the kill count, because I'm a TR with greensteel (Oh, and also because I'm great)... I've never had any newb "bow out" either... But then I don't usually run ahead of them all and let them get lost... We move fast, but I don't solo the quest when I'm in a group (unless it's a quest where you can split up).

So I help the newbs learn AND I have a 99.9% success rate. And I can chew gum while doing it!

[twix]

Funny threads like this make me think about transfering a toon to Kyber.

[Tap4black]

I've pugged thousands of quests/raids.

You are forced to PUG because many of the folks in Free Companions, one of the largest and most active guilds on Khyber, are tired of your ego and refuse to join as you beg for folks to fill your LFM's.

Want to take a guess at how many folks in Free Companions have you squelched? Here's a clue, ALOT! You are nothing but a joke to many of us and a stain on the guild name.

We'll gladly take a random Norg led Epic group over a "let's babysit Axer so he can stroke his ego" run any day. The success rate is identical to your claimed rate of completion but everyone contributes and we have fun (mostly at your narrow-minded LFM's while we're going off to another raid.

[unfiguroutable]

Just have the decency to click refuse so I can look for another PUG and not wonder if I'm getting in or not.

Simple courtesy.

/rant off

if any one puts a request up without PMing me I let the timmer tick down and squelch the sender...i find your request for "courtesy" ironic.

[dkyle]

if any one puts a request up without PMing me I let the timmer tick down and squelch the sender...i find your request for "courtesy" ironic.

I think you misunderstand him. That sort of reaction is only befitting a blind invite. But that's not what he was referring to.

Or are you seriously squelching people for hitting your LFM without sending a tell?

[Disavowed]

You are forced to PUG because many of the folks in Free Companions, one of the largest and most active guilds on Khyber, are tired of your ego and refuse to join as you beg for folks to fill your LFM's.

Want to take a guess at how many folks in Free Companions have you squelched? Here's a clue, ALOT! You are nothing but a joke to many of us and a stain on the guild name.

We'll gladly take a random Norg led Epic group over a "let's babysit Axer so he can stroke his ego" run any day. The success rate is identical to your claimed rate of completion but everyone contributes and we have fun (mostly at your narrow-minded LFM's while we're going off to another raid.

Well stated. And I totally agree on the Norg led epic.

[unfiguroutable]

IOr are you seriously squelching people for hitting your LFM without sending a tell?

when it says "PST", you bet I am.

[dkyle]

when it says "PST", you bet I am.

First, you never said anything about saying "PST", and second, wow, overreact much? How can you stand to PUG at all with that much of a control complex?

[unfiguroutable]

First, you never said anything about saying "PST", and second, wow, overreact much? How can you stand to PUG at all with that much of a control complex?

It's easy. Those that are, incapable of basic manners, self control, or the ability to read and follow simple instructions only ever get one chance to disrupt my day. As a result my Pick Up Groups usually run very very smoothly.

[dkyle]

It's easy. Those that are, incapable of basic manners, self control, or the ability to read and follow simple instructions only ever get one chance to disrupt my day. As a result my Pick Up Groups usually run very very smoothly.

Seems like if failing to follow such an arbitrary and mostly pointless instruction (what does a simple tell really get you that the "so-and-so wants to join" message doesn't?) gets such a rise out of you that you refuse to ever interact with that person again, any sort of mistake that has any actually meaningful consequence while running quests/raids must make your head implode.

Like if someone puts a "stay off the grass" sign on their lawn. And then plants land mines. Yeah, people should follow instructions, and stay off the grass, but there's such a thing as proportionate response.

But I guess I'm used to squelch being a measure of last resort, only used when someone has demonstrated profound incompetence or actual malice. I think I've squelched about 5 people in my time playing.

[Shade]

Want to take a guess at how many folks in Free Companions have you squelched?

None actually.

I can't say the same for yourself.

We are called the free companions for a reason.. We are free. We aren't as guild centric as some other guilds and may not do a whole lot of guild-only raids as some do.

Thats our preference. and thats my preference. You can try to fault us for it if you want, but I wont fault you for however you guild does things. I can't say I even know who you are, or what guild your in. Nor do I care.

Why do you know who I am, or care what I do? ... Sounds like your a fan. Thanks for the support.

Instead of exluding people simply because they are not in my guild from my raids, I group with all of Khyber, because khyber is a great server with many great players from many guilds.

[unfiguroutable]

gets such a rise out of you that you refuse to ever interact with that person again, any sort of mistake that has any actually meaningful consequence while running quests/raids must make your head implode.

.

I suggest some reading on "the ego" and projection bias.

[Tap4black]

None actually.

I can't say the same for yourself.

We are called the free companions for a reason.. We are free. We aren't as guild centric as some other guilds and may not do a whole lot of guild-only raids as some do.

Thats our preference. and thats my preference. You can try to fault us for it if you want, but I wont fault you for however you guild does things. I can't say I even know who you are, or what guild your in. Nor do I care.

Why do you know who I am, or care what I do? ... Sounds like your a fan. Thanks for the support.

Instead of exluding people simply because they are not in my guild from my raids, I group with all of Khyber, because khyber is a great server with many great players from many guilds.

Then I'd be the first you can add to the list of known guildies that have you on the ignore list. I'd tell you in guild chat or on Vent but you are squelched..........

[dkyle]

I suggest some reading on "the ego" and projection bias.

So you're saying that people that overreact to simple and largely irrelevant slights and ascribe to the perpetrators a lack of basic manners, self control, and ability to read and follow simple instructions, are in fact projecting their own faults and insecurities onto those others. Interesting theory.

[Disavowed]

None actually.

I can't say the same for yourself.

We are called the free companions for a reason.. We are free. We aren't as guild centric as some other guilds and may not do a whole lot of guild-only raids as some do.

Thats our preference. and thats my preference. You can try to fault us for it if you want, but I wont fault you for however you guild does things. I can't say I even know who you are, or what guild your in. Nor do I care.

Why do you know who I am, or care what I do? ... Sounds like your a fan. Thanks for the support.

Instead of exluding people simply because they are not in my guild from my raids, I group with all of Khyber, because khyber is a great server with many great players from many guilds.

First off he's in your guild and has been for a very long time.

Second I know a few others that have you squelched permanantly as well, and I can tell you that there are a ton more who keep you squelched when they raid with you so they don't have to listen to you talk about how great you are. Then they unsquelch you after the raid. Keep in mind I'm not in your guild but I know and run with a ton of people from your guild. So I will go on the record and say that what he says is true and the same hase been said by many others from TFC.