Why being accepted to any pug group is a privilege, not a right.

[ddoplayer064]

Interesting... I take the first 5 that want to come along, and my success rate is very high... Did you use to fail quests when you just took anyone?

Or are you only talking about end-game or epic raids here?

The last one I saw (I don't see many, because my main is a Pally, and therefore ineligible...) was for non-epic Wiz King. I almost clicked to join (was on my 13th Bard, and therefore eligible...) but decided I didn't want to be a buff-bot to an egomaniac, and went to do something else <shrug>.

[Disavowed]

Interesting... I take the first 5 that want to come along, and my success rate is very high... Did you use to fail quests when you just took anyone?

Or are you only talking about end-game or epic raids here?

Nah, it's not silly to infer... Most of the time the people who are looking for only a certain class suck.... It's a very high probability that they are not very good at this game.

But don't worry, I don't bother sending tells about it...

Well said, I was thinking the same thing. I almost always take the 1st 6 to join. Not trying to sound like the Uber Axer but my groups succeed 99.9% of the time as well. The difference is maybe it doesn't go as flawless as it could have like The Great Axer stated above, but rarely do we fail just like he doesn't.

What I'm trying to figure out. Isn't this the same Great Axer who said we need to help the newbs and complained we weren't doing enough to help them when we do speed runs? Now he says it's ok to be exclusive and run as the only melee so he can have his personal hirelings and rights to all melee gear. How's being exclusive like this helping a single newb melee learn the game?

I'd +1 you but I can't. Funny how you and I can have one major disagreement yet every time I go to +1 you I can't until I spread some more around. I guess no two people can agree on things every single time.

[muffinlad]

Your LFM, your rules, but when your rules are so absurd, to the point that someone who doesn't know you would logically think it's more likely you simply made a mistake on the "classes wanted" settings...



Can you really blame them?

Wow...show and tell has never been so fun.

muffincrazy

[Duagrim]

Why are the triple TR, super uber dominating ultra perfection seeking elite-only epic players usually so unwilling to understand that for us ham-n-eggers, it's just a game? Most of us casual players (I personally have only 2 capped toons) are just here to make you forum frequenting 60 hour per week dudes look good and have some fun after work. Give us a break, OK? We have families.

[Emili]

Interesting... I take the first 5 that want to come along, and my success rate is very high... Did you use to fail quests when you just took anyone?

Or are you only talking about end-game or epic raids here?

In my experience Axer rarely runs anything outside end-game or epic.

When I go to lfm I normally take the first people available and switch to another character class if I feel I would like to minimize risks of things going wrong...

The way people run their lfm's personally have no bearing on anything ... is their lfm they use the lfm as they see fit. That's fine.

I agree with OP.

Also, I've been increasingly annoyed at party leaders who don't click 'refuse' when the request comes up. I don't mind not being accepted, maybe you don't want another monk jonesing your monk loot, maybe a WF touched you inappropriately while you were sleeping. I don't care. Just have the decency to click refuse so I can look for another PUG and not wonder if I'm getting in or not.

Simple courtesy.

/rant off

I am guilty of not sending out refusals. Typically such things happen when there are too many applicants and the party itself is edgy to get moving along... sending two or three pages of refusals vs selecting those last two or three people those you're accepting take priority. Such happen fewer these days as I rarely place up lfm's anymore.

[crimsonknights2]

I agree with OP.

Also, I've been increasingly annoyed at party leaders who don't click 'refuse' when the request comes up. I don't mind not being accepted, maybe you don't want another monk jonesing your monk loot, maybe a WF touched you inappropriately while you were sleeping. I don't care. Just have the decency to click refuse so I can look for another PUG and not wonder if I'm getting in or not.

Simple courtesy.

/rant off

This. Nothing bugs me more than letting it hang. +1

[Shade]

Your LFM, your rules, but when your rules are so absurd, to the point that someone who doesn't know you would logically think it's more likely you simply made a mistake on the "classes wanted" settings...



Can you really blame them?

I absolutely do blame you. And anyone else who makes poor assumptions. This is exactly the kind of nonsense im talking about the OP.

What exactly was "absurd" about that LFM? My class selection? What was currently in the group? How do you know I hadn't already filled the group at that point and didnt update lfm? How do you know the last spots arent reserved for different classes? How do you know we werent all going to switch classes?

You don't know.

I think what was absurd, is that you think you can read my mind and know exactly what I was thinking at that moment.

For the record, the last 2 people to join said LFM, were melee. I can give you the exact names if you want. They weren't your melee, thus why your complaining I bet. And that was the first time I ran that quest ever, so I was looking to make it a fun smooth run. But I really shouldn't have to expalin this to you, or anyone else.

I'll add your characters to my squelch list, thanks for listing them in your sig.

[Shade]

What I'm trying to figure out. Isn't this the same Great Axer who said we need to help the newbs and complained we weren't doing enough to help them when we do speed runs? Now he says it's ok to be exclusive and run as the only melee so he can have his personal hirelings and rights to all melee gear. How's being exclusive like this helping a single newb melee learn the game?

Look more poor assumptions. I'm not saying anything of the sort. Your poor assumptions is exactly my issue in the OP.

If you REALLY must know my reasonings for my standard LFM settings. I really think it shouldn't be your any of your concern, but fine I'll explain my playstyle and standard LFM setup - hey here ya go:

I've pugged thousands of quests/raids. When I first started I always took random pug melee like anyone else.

- After several hundred quests... I noticed a pattern: Most New/Pug melee cannot keep up with my own melee characters. They contribute nearly nothing to the quest, despite no matter how skilled or determined they are - simply because they are behind the curve in terms of game knowledge/gear.
- To me - If I started playing later in the games cycle.. This would frusterate me, as I don't really like to quest where I can't make a good contribution.
- Some players may not care about this, but many do.. They often drop group after the first qust I do with comments like "Sorry guys I just cant keep up"
- I prefer to recruit players who will stay for multiple runs, to save from having to do a new lfm often.
- I prefer to take players who can always contribute something, regardless of how new they are to the game. This generally means caster/support classes yes - as cc/buffs are always useful.

For players who aren't new, do know me, and have been around a while. They are almost always welcome to my groups as melee.

They need only send a tell as I mentioned in the OP. Alternatively i advertise all my groups in guildchat (without class limits), and for most epic quests - my channel. /Epic.

If you are a player that feels he has melee that can contribute well on Epic. Simply join my chanel /Epic, and respond to my ads in there and if I have melee slots available, I will recruit you without question.

The class selection is to diswayd newer melee player who simply aren't geared, dont know me, and havent' been around a while from trying to join. Rather then having to decline them - which always makes for negative feelings, I try to prevent it from happening in the first place.

- Complete ungeared healers/bards/casters can still make a good contribution on epic quests. Ungeared melee cannot.

-Since endgame I run almost exclusively epic and other difficult content, allowing just any random melee in all too often ends up in disaster with complete ungeared melee dying too much and feeling bad about there lack of contribution.

-It's always worked for me. I've been around so long that I can always get the melee I'd like for whatever quest I run without putting them in an LFM.

- My raid LFMs always include all classes to start. New players who play melee classes are welcome. They can get to know me there, and thus qualify for my epic groups in the future. My weekly epic dragons (tonight) have no requirements what so ever to join aside from having an active forum account.

[Chris79]

I am guilty of not sending out refusals. Typically such things happen when there are too many applicants and the party itself is edgy to get moving along... sending two or three pages of refusals vs selecting those last two or three people those you're accepting take priority. Such happen fewer these days as I rarely place up lfm's anymore.

We're not all as popular as you Emili, so I understand

[somerecluse]

Look more poor assumptions. I'm not saying anything of the sort. Your poor assumptions is exactly my issue in the OP.

If you REALLY must know my reasonings for my standard LFM settings. I really think it shouldn't be your any of your concern, but fine I'll explain my playstyle and standard LFM setup - hey here ya go:

I've pugged thousands of quests/raids. When I first started I always took random pug melee like anyone else.

- After several hundred quests... I noticed a pattern: Most New/Pug melee cannot keep up with my own melee characters. They contribute nearly nothing to the quest, despite no matter how skilled or determined they are - simply because they are behind the curve in terms of game knowledge/gear.
- To me - If I started playing later in the games cycle.. This would frusterate me, as I don't really like to quest where I can't make a good contribution.
- Some players may not care about this, but many do.. They often drop group after the first qust I do with comments like "Sorry guys I just cant keep up"
- I prefer to recruit players who will stay for multiple runs, to save from having to do a new lfm often.
- I prefer to take players who can always contribute something, regardless of how new they are to the game. This generally means caster/support classes yes - as cc/buffs are always useful.

For players who aren't new, do know me, and have been around a while. They are almost always welcome to my groups as melee.

They need only send a tell as I mentioned in the OP. Alternatively i advertise all my groups in guildchat (without class limits), and for most epic quests - my channel. /Epic.

If you are a player that feels he has melee that can contribute well on Epic. Simply join my chanel /Epic, and respond to my ads in there and if I have melee slots available, I will recruit you without question.

The class selection is to diswayd newer melee player who simply aren't geared, dont know me, and havent' been around a while from trying to join. Rather then having to decline them - which always makes for negative feelings, I try to prevent it from happening in the first place.

- Complete ungeared healers/bards/casters can still make a good contribution on epic quests. Ungeared melee cannot.

-Since endgame I run almost exclusively epic and other difficult content, allowing just any random melee in all too often ends up in disaster with complete ungeared melee dying too much and feeling bad about there lack of contribution.

-It's always worked for me. I've been around so long that I can always get the melee I'd like for whatever quest I run without putting them in an LFM.

- My raid LFMs always include all classes to start. New players who play melee classes are welcome. They can get to know me there, and thus qualify for my epic groups in the future. My weekly epic dragons (tonight) have no requirements what so ever to join aside from having an active forum account.

right after axer came back (probably a day or two back even) he accepted me into his raids he was posting without knowing who i was. i was on an unarmed life at the time and he asked me for boss dr breakers and i linked devouts. then he asked me if i had bursting effects on my tod rings and i didnt at the time but then he let me in anyways lol. in a tod, edq, and evon. and then explained burst effects on tod rings were the end game equivalent to greensteel. which i already knew i just hadnt got around to bursting my rings heh. especially since i wasnt going unarmed next life. i ended up leading kills in tod anyways :P i know its no measuring stick but it lets me think i did contribute lanyways point is i dont think hes as harsh or strict always as most make him out to be. or maybe there was someone already in party who persuaded him to let me in :P

[Emizand]

Is it only me who finds the terms 'spaz' and 'spazing out' offensive?

Yeah, probably.

yes.

Ah, that does surprise me. Well i supposes our worlds are made of the company we keep. Still shocked though.

[maddmatt70]

I suppose I should /ignore this thread, but I totally disagree with the OP's logic about why he forms parties so felt I should post something on the logic. Having run a healer with another healer on epics quests I feel like I contribute very little in that scenario. We always heal the same target and add little to no dps. What is more is it is so very boring running a healer with another healer in an epic quest. I do not know why any player playing a cleric/fvs unless they want to go afk joins a group with another healer. Wizards or sorcerers can stack with each other and add dps, but often on epics all they casts are enchantment based spells so they do not stack well on epics so some of the same issues emerge that two healers have.

If a melee does 40% of the dps of another melee that melee still contributes more then 2 healers or even two wizards/sorcs on an epic. Just a basic class with prestige enhancements and little to no gear does a certain % of overall dps. Assuming that melee can run up and swing some sort of weapon and has a clue then that is more dps.

In the end the quest gets completed faster unless the party evades the mobs with spells such as invisibility or Charm monster or abilities like fascinate because there is more overall party dps.

I do not care how someone forms their parties. I do not have to join, etc. My point is this logic is flawed if that is what we are talking about is logic.

[Shade]

I suppose I should /ignore this thread, but I totally disagree with the OP

You heard it here first folks.

Norg disagrees. So whenever you see him forming a group/raid and you don't meet the requirements, just sign up anyways. He will automatically accept you. Seems he will take just about anyone as he believes it's your right to be automatically accepted.

[stainer]

You heard it here first folks.

Norg disagrees. So whenever you see him forming a group/raid and you don't meet the requirements, just sign up anyways. He will automatically accept you. Seems he will take just about anyone as he believes it's your right to be automatically accepted.

To be fair, I did run an Epic DQ1 where everyone was a first timer except Norg and Phalcon. A couple of folks couldn't find the quest even. Norg was patient and lead us all through the quest. That was my first EDQ1. I was so self conscious I sent him a tell before joining.

[maddmatt70]

You heard it here first folks.

Norg disagrees. So whenever you see him forming a group/raid and you don't meet the requirements, just sign up anyways. He will automatically accept you. Seems he will take just about anyone as he believes it's your right to be automatically accepted.

Way to twist and cut the words I posted as I said you can form a group with any logic you want. You want an all dwarven sorcerer party go for it. I was pointing out the errors in the logic that you posted.

[Merrelll]

Hmm, being accepted into PuGs is a priviledge? Hmm, sometimes it's more like a curse

This.^^
Certainly nowdays on Khyber.

[dkyle]

I absolutely do blame you. And anyone else who makes poor assumptions. This is exactly the kind of nonsense im talking about the OP.

Did I say I joined your group? I know who you are, and know full well that you truly do intend to post such groups.

What exactly was "absurd" about that LFM? My class selection? What was currently in the group?

Pretty much this.

How do you know I hadn't already filled the group at that point and didnt update lfm?

How do you know the last spots arent reserved for different classes? How do you know we werent all going to switch classes?

Was that really the case? Because you fully admit to posting LFMs like that.

If you're reserving "last spots" and fail to update the LFM, I'm sure you'll understand if people continue to hit your LFM. But again, I very much doubt that was the case, considering the Cleric dropped shortly thereafter, with whom I ran an epic Big Top.

You don't know.

Oh, please. I know full well.

For the record, the last 2 people to join said LFM, were melee. I can give you the exact names if you want. They weren't your melee, thus why your complaining I bet. And that was the first time I ran that quest ever, so I was looking to make it a fun smooth run. But I really shouldn't have to expalin this to you, or anyone else.

If you look real carefully at the screenshot, you'll see that I was in fact eligible to join your LFM on that character. And no, I wasn't on timer, nor did I switch from my melee just to take a screenshot.

And first time or not, LFMs with one melee, and the rest casters/healers/bards are so outside the norm that the point remains: a reasonable person unaware of your reputation will see that LFM and think you made a mistake putting it up, not that your really want to run that way.

And in fact, you apparently don't want to run it that way. You expect people to read your mind and send a tell before hitting it on their Melee. This is why your OP rings so hollow: you put up those LFMs, and expect behavior entirely counter-intuitive to what they appear to be. Why don't you put "Melee send a tell" in the description?

I'll add your characters to my squelch list, thanks for listing them in your sig.

If you feel that's necessary. Seems like an overreaction to me. I have no problem running with you in-game, and I have done so in the past. But I'm generally good at separating forum BS from the game itself.

[Teech]

You heard it here first folks.

Norg disagrees. So whenever you see him forming a group/raid and you don't meet the requirements, just sign up anyways. He will automatically accept you. Seems he will take just about anyone as he believes it's your right to be automatically accepted.

I take it you have reading comprehension problems. Allow me to help.
I've quoted the full sentence of relevant section of Norg's post below.

I suppose I should /ignore this thread, but I totally disagree with the OP's logic about why he forms parties so felt I should post something on the logic.

You see, he disagrees with your logic for forming parties.

If you should need further help, I know a good reading teacher. Let me know.

[Aurora_nyx]

I put up raid LFM's all the time, it's the penance I pay for piking the rest of the time Actually it's more of an, "Auro they know you're a girl and you'll fill way faster then we could" thing. Usually I take whoever ends up in that little accept box, perhaps because I don't do epics I don't have the same need to be anal about weapons and uber greatness but I have to say my track record for completions is pretty **** fine, and people actually have fun*gasp*

Hell even last nights fail in shroud was amazing, and fun. There was like 0.0000001% left on Harry, no red at all and well ya... we ended up waiting for the barb who dc'd wondering if he'd be able to take a swing and finish it, or zone in, and get a meteor to the face. He got the meteor btw... but the point is, with all of us hanging around and joking while waiting, we got to actually talk and enjoy other aspects of the game. (and yes we did go back and finish it)

[Thrudh]

The last one I saw (I don't see many, because my main is a Pally, and therefore ineligible...) was for non-epic Wiz King. I almost clicked to join (was on my 13th Bard, and therefore eligible...) but decided I didn't want to be a buff-bot to an egomaniac, and went to do something else <shrug>.

Wow, so Shade needs a perfect group to do Wiz-King? On his decked out TR?

For a guy who thinks he is one the best players in the game, he sure doesn't appear too confident in his abilities.