Warchanter Half-orc Build- Commets?

[Sandheart]

When I started making this build the idea was clear in my mind. I wanted a Horc warchanter that mainly buffed the party(a little CC) and fought with a falchion. I also wanted it to have high UMD and haggle. UMD to escape race restrictions and possibly use a scroll or two. I tried to incorporate self-healing in the spell selection. At 20 I might make a few spell swaps because I don't want Heroism and GH at 20(seem pointless). My reasoning seems to have gaps of my reasoning in some of the other character I've made and rolled. Is this build okay? Will it work?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
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Horc Warchanter
Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Orc Female
(20 Bard) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 824 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 13
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    17
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    23

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    16
Bluff                 3                     6
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy             3                     6
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                    31
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            3                    10
Jump                  5                    13
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               7                    23
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  0                    10.5
Swim                  3                     3
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      7                    29

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (1): Master's Touch


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Remove Fear


Level 4 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Rage


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Spell (2): Blur


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (2): Heroism


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Falchion Training
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (5): Summon Monster V


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 16 (Bard)
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (5): Shadow Walk
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (3): Displacement


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (6): Greater Shout
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I


Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Book_O_Dragons]

Stats:
Drop charisma by 4 points freeing up 10 build points, then up strength by 2 and constitution by 4.
All Lvl-Ups is Str.

Feats:

THF
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Toughness
Empower Healing
ITHF

Mental Toughness is usless except for Pale Masters and never take it at lvl 1 because it would only grant 10 SP at that point.
Lightning Reflexes shouldn't be taken by anyone; You already have the good base Reflex save bonus and your spells can boost it.
Force of Personality has some use, but in addition to the reasons for Lightning Reflexes you will rarely encounter effects that require will saves that FoM and DW won't block at end game except for fear which will be boosted by your songs.

Enhancements:
Try these.

Bard Inspired Attack III
Bard Inspired Bravery III
Bard Inspired Damage III
Bard Lingering Song IV
Bard Warchanter II
Falchion Training
Bard Musical Prodigy
Orcish Melee Damage II
Orcish Power Attack II
Orcish Strength II
Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Racial Toughness II
Bard Song Magic II
Bard Charisma III
Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Skills:
Max Concentration, Perform, and UMD
Since it looks like you want haggle maxed do that and then you have 23 skill points left.
Split the remaining points between Balance and Tumble, maybe 6 Tumble and 17 Balance.

You want +40 Jump with the Jump spell cast on you by a lvl 9+ caster or from Morah's Belt (3 charges of Jump at CL: 15). You will have 25 Str with my plan for your stats and the Orcish Strength II enhancement then a +6 Str item and +1 exceptional Str from Warchanter's band will bring you to 32 Str a +11 bonus. If you dont wear armor that will be enough.

[Book_O_Dragons]

Here it is in the character planner.
I changed the spells to be what you would be using at end game.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
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Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Bard) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 612 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 23                   25
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         16                 16                   16
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             12                 12                   17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                    16
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         7                    26
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                    26
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     7
Jump                  4                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               5                    26
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device      5                    26

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Master's Touch


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (3): Haste


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (4): Break Enchantment


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (5): Shadow Walk


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Heroes Feast


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (6): Greater Shout
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Falchion Training
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Sandheart]

Yeah see your point...falchion is a two handed weapon...guess I thought that MT would take away the penalty. CHA only helps the spell points,and I can see now why a lot of spell points wouldn't help with what I want. Thanks for the help. =)

[Book_O_Dragons]

Your welcome.

[wolfy42]

Masters touch will take away penalties for martial weaopns you are not proficient with...so taking that at level 1 is still a good idea (your not going to need to heal at level 1 anyway...so if you have a +1 falchion waiting for you MT might still be the best level 1 spell for you to take).

For what your doing dropping cha is a great idea...although you might want a slightly higher dex as it will make life a bit easier early on.

He meant for you to get THF and ITHF later on (not ITWF), but I'd argue that might not be a great idea. THF adds very little additional damage early on in the game so you might want to snag toughness right off the bat and THF later on instead (Extra hp are nice even early on).

[wax_on_wax_off]

Stats:
Drop charisma by 4 points freeing up 10 build points, then up strength by 2 and constitution by 4.
All Lvl-Ups is Str.

Feats:

THF
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Toughness
Empower Healing
ITHF

Mental Toughness is usless except for Pale Masters and never take it at lvl 1 because it would only grant 10 SP at that point.
Lightning Reflexes shouldn't be taken by anyone; You already have the good base Reflex save bonus and your spells can boost it.
Force of Personality has some use, but in addition to the reasons for Lightning Reflexes you will rarely encounter effects that require will saves that FoM and DW won't block at end game except for fear which will be boosted by your songs.

Enhancements:
Try these.

Bard Inspired Attack III
Bard Inspired Bravery III
Bard Inspired Damage III
Bard Lingering Song IV
Bard Warchanter II
Falchion Training
Bard Musical Prodigy
Orcish Melee Damage II
Orcish Power Attack II
Orcish Strength II
Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Racial Toughness II
Bard Song Magic II
Bard Charisma III
Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Skills:
Max Concentration, Perform, and UMD
Since it looks like you want haggle maxed do that and then you have 23 skill points left.
Split the remaining points between Balance and Tumble, maybe 6 Tumble and 17 Balance.

You want +40 Jump with the Jump spell cast on you by a lvl 9+ caster or from Morah's Belt (3 charges of Jump at CL: 15). You will have 25 Str with my plan for your stats and the Orcish Strength II enhancement then a +6 Str item and +1 exceptional Str from Warchanter's band will bring you to 32 Str a +11 bonus. If you dont wear armor that will be enough.

This is all solid advice. However, I wouldn't take THF and ITHF. Instead, I would learn how to twitch. This will remove most of the point of having the THF feats while still having similar single target DPS. The only time the THF feats are useful imo is if you can have all 3.

This frees up 2 feats to take improved critical: slashing and 1 other feat. I would suggest quicken spell which will allow you to keep fighting even while throwing some mass cures; possibly you could fill a healer slot in a raid (largely gear dependent; bauble, archmagi etc). Easy place to start is to make sure you have Superior Ardor VI clickies off the AH, often you can get them at a decent price if you keep an eye out and these will give you +75% boost to your healing while letting you keep your hands free.

It should be noted that empower healing is interchangeable with maximise spell and it is questionable which is better. With the warchanter ToD set you get a 4 SP discount to maximise spell and if you picked up some of those epic ornamental daggers from the Crystal Cove event then you can have free maximises for an entire raid (if you got enough of them, 1 dagger = 1 minute of free maximise, I picked up 8. Ideally I would like both empower healing and maximise but that makes for a very difficult feat choice. One option would be to swap out a feat at level 20 after you get nicely geared up. Perhaps improved critical if you have a minII greataxe, toughness if you have enough constitution and HP related gear or extend if you have enough SP to keep buffs up anyway.

[Book_O_Dragons]

Masters touch will take away penalties for martial weaopns you are not proficient with...so taking that at level 1 is still a good idea (your not going to need to heal at level 1 anyway...so if you have a +1 falchion waiting for you MT might still be the best level 1 spell for you to take).

The spell selection in the build was meant for end game as noted in my post. I completly agree with this.

For what your doing dropping cha is a great idea...although you might want a slightly higher dex as it will make life a bit easier early on.

The start of the game is really easy even with 13 AC (10 base +4 Chain Shirt -1 8 Dex)
Where would he get the build points to boost Dex? Int or Cha? Deffinitly not Con. Str might be an option but I don't like that.

He meant for you to get THF and ITHF later on (not ITWF), but I'd argue that might not be a great idea. THF adds very little additional damage early on in the game so you might want to snag toughness right off the bat and THF later on instead (Extra hp are nice even early on).

Thanks for that catch Wolfy.

I'm thinking he needs Improved Critical: Slashing. Drop ITHF for it, that closes out Great Weapon Aptitude II.
Put those AP in Wand and Scroll Mastery II if you do that.

@Wax_on_wax_off: I've never really lvled a THFer so I don't know that much about them.

Maybe for feats
In order:
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Improved Critical: Shashing
Empower Healing
Maximize Spell/Quicken Spell

[wax_on_wax_off]

The spell selection in the build was meant for end game as noted in my post. I completly agree with this.

I'd suggest not to worry about spell selection, I rarely do. I refer to basic spellcaster builds here to see what the benchmark is. Then I either follow that or experiment around depending on what I feel like. In the end the costs for swapping spells only gets high for 8th and 9th level spells.

The start of the game is really easy even with 13 AC (10 base +4 Chain Shirt -1 8 Dex)
Where would he get the build points to boost Dex? Int or Cha? Deffinitly not Con. Str might be an option but I don't like that.

I agree with this, leave dex at 8. Higher dex is if you want a TWF build and/or a build with evasion.

I'm thinking he needs Improved Critical: Slashing. Drop ITHF for it, that closes out Great Weapon Aptitude II.
Put those AP in Wand and Scroll Mastery II if you do that.

No where to squeeze in Wand and Scroll Mastery III? On a bard this is a supremely useful enhancement (no reason you can't scroll heal yourself or scroll heal a decent tank using backup maximised cure critical wounds).

@Wax_on_wax_off: I've never really lvled a THFer so I don't know that much about them.

Twitching is tricky to get the hang of but it really pays off. Regardless of if you have the feats or not it is important to learn this trick as it regardless of DPS it will be better in certain situations such as if an enemy has DR, auto crit or when relying on on-hit affects (vorpal).

Maybe for feats
In order:
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Improved Critical: Shashing
Empower Healing
Maximize Spell/Quicken Spell

That looks solid. Personally I'd like extend for level 8 rather than having to wait until level 9. Probably I would swap extend with toughness as I never feel worried about my HP at that low level.

My order would be: Extend Spell, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Slashing and then the rest (I may dump toughness altogether depending on gear/starting con but probably will go with quicken + maximise though I think I have the larges for a minII ...)

I'm seriously considering this for one of the TR's in my immediate future.

[Altkey]

I'm curious as to how married you are to remaining a pure bard for this build. Even if you wanted to take 18 levels in case we ever get WC3 PRE, you'd gain quite a bit of flexibility with 2 levels of say fighter. It doesn't look like you're taking anything in the spell focus or spell penetration lines and as you back away from CHA you're also backing down your DCs. Without focusing your build on your casting, the capstone doesn't really shine imo. 20% longer and 2 extras songs are nice and all but they don't really matter that much in most situations.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'm curious as to how married you are to remaining a pure bard for this build. Even if you wanted to take 18 levels in case we ever get WC3 PRE, you'd gain quite a bit of flexibility with 2 levels of say fighter. It doesn't look like you're taking anything in the spell focus or spell penetration lines and as you back away from CHA you're also backing down your DCs. Without focusing your build on your casting, the capstone doesn't really shine imo. 20% longer and 2 extras songs are nice and all but they don't really matter that much in most situations.

There is strengths and weaknesses to the splash and pure build.

I'll try to sum them up:
1. For a THF build you won't increase your DPS significantly by splashing and will decrease group DPS (level 20 gives +1 attack and +1 damage to your courage song vs +1d6+3 sneak attack and +1 strength for 2 rogue/2 fighter splash).
2. You have enough feats to satisfy everything as a THF'er on a pure build.
3. Spell CC is still viable in leveling content on a pure build even with 12 base charisma assuming you are doing normal quests at your level -1. Otto's Irresistible Dance benefits from the capstone and is useful at all levels. Fascinate is viable at all levels and benefits from being pure.
4. Not splashing means you get all the awesome buffs and other class skills sooner. Certainly, a pure build is easier to level than a splashed one.
5. Splashing is good to:
a. pick up evasion (every splash should have this but isn't a reason in itself to splash, imo)
b. pick up TWF'ing style (virtuoso is best for this)
c. pick up intimidate (warchanter is best for this)
d. pick up archery (if you swing that way, again virtuoso is best for this)

[Sandheart]

Thanks you all for the great suggestions & advice. I'll do the feat list in this order:
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Improved Critical: Slashing
Empower Healing
Quicken Spell

I don't mind splashes(Have a rogue/fighter that I love), but I'd really like to go pure for my first bard. Might swich master's touch and cure light wounds around.

[MogeeMaleeg]

I played a Horc 16Bard/2Fighter/2Barb and loved it. For end game I could still get my perform to a 50. Plus I was able to add additional DPS.

[unbongwah]

My advice: base stats 20 / 8 / 14 / 6 / 8 / 12 with all lvl-ups into STR. If you're not taking the THF feats, I'd advise dropping a metamagic for Stunning Blow and keeping a Stunning maul handy.

[wax_on_wax_off]

My advice: base stats 20 / 8 / 14 / 6 / 8 / 12 with all lvl-ups into STR. If you're not taking the THF feats, I'd advise dropping a metamagic for Stunning Blow and keeping a Stunning maul handy.

Losing the potential to raid heal for a 6 second stun with a 15 second cooldown who's DC will be ~6 lower than a comparable fighter?

[unbongwah]

OP didn't mention healing as a priority, much less raid healing. As for Stunning Blow, how high does he need to get his DC in order to be useful? Base 10 + 10 Stunning maul + STR bonus which I'm guessing he can push up around 40+ fully buffed (+15 or higher).

[wax_on_wax_off]

OP didn't mention healing as a priority, much less raid healing. As for Stunning Blow, how high does he need to get his DC in order to be useful? Base 10 + 10 Stunning maul + STR bonus which I'm guessing he can push up around 40+ fully buffed (+15 or higher).

40 strength leaves you at a DC of 35 with a +10 stunning maul which not too flash considering a monk expects to have a DC of 40 going in to epics and gets to use their stun 4.5 times more.

I know the OP didn't mention healing as a priority but keeping the metamagics keeps the option open for him and pound for pound a group will value a warchanter who can heal than one who can bring a subpar stun.

The healing is optional and requires gear, however, with practice a pure warchanter like this could heal many of the easier epics, significantly contribute to healing in harder epics or fill a second healer slot in a Shroud for instance. This stuff is optional and personally I'm too lazy most of the time to play such a character to his full potential but it is nice to know he has the potential (for instance when the other healer DC's or something). All this without sacrificing DPS is pretty cool

[Book_O_Dragons]

My advice: base stats 20 / 8 / 14 / 6 / 8 / 12 with all lvl-ups into STR. If you're not taking the THF feats, I'd advise dropping a metamagic for Stunning Blow and keeping a Stunning maul handy.

The build I posted will max 352 with ony f2p equipment (non-event items).
262 from planner
60 +6 Con item
30 Greater False Life
20 Rage Spell (self cast)
=372

Additional increases are:
10 Draconic Vitality (Gianthold)
20 Minos Legens (Necro 4)
45 shroud HP (Vale) {20 HP from this can be replaced on DT armor (Reaver's Refuge)}
10 Superior False Life over Greater (Sands of Mechenatrum, Red Fens)
20 +2 exceptional Con (Vale, Devils of Shavarath, Red Fens)
20 +1 exceptional Con (Vale, Devils of Shavarath and any epic raid) and +7 Con item (Chronoscope, Sands of Mechenatrum {don't use the armor from sands it gives -1 Cha})
= 125 more available
Max = 497 with all twinked gear for HP

That f2p number is not enough for shroud but the twinked number is.

Both numbers are probably enough for meleeing Sulo in VoD and ToD but not for tanking.

In ToD you will need to be very careful around Horoth with the f2p number because you won't be able to survive a meteor swarm with nearly maxed damage on a failed save (360 max with fire resist 30). That is the same damage a Harry's meteor swarm.

Those numbers mean he will need to be able to raid heal IMO.

This is my source

He is also going falchion which can't have stunning enchantments.

[Sandheart]

Healing is something I personally would want more then stunning. I'm vip so the other gear shouldn't be too hard to get with my higher lvls. On another note tried Ardor clickies with my cleric-those things are really good. =)

[Bilger]

OP didn't mention healing as a priority, much less raid healing. As for Stunning Blow, how high does he need to get his DC in order to be useful? Base 10 + 10 Stunning maul + STR bonus which I'm guessing he can push up around 40+ fully buffed (+15 or higher).

Which in end game content will get 3 in 10 with stunning maybe leveling up it will be fine but the healing outweighs the stun chance with dc's around 35.