RS healing cleric and what is it?

[pyrevamp]

(this is an ongoing guide)
Yes another guide to Clerics. Build Discussion and common pitfalls for making a Raid/Epic Healing/Caster RS Cleric.

Why a healer spec cleric. Really that what clerics specialize in. If you want to be a battle cleric you have 2 choices... This is a sliding scale. Most battle capable are paladins they are basically fighters with some basic self healing, then comes fvs they can heal or melee at the end game you are expected to heal but they are quite capable in the heat of battle. This is for people who are wanting to make a very strong healer, someone who will not let their party die.. ie a rs cleric. This is not to say a Healer can not get into battle they certainly can but this part will be covered later on.



Being a person who is constantly answering other peoples questions because they cannot find it on line, I have decided to make a guide where I can send people which will answer most of their questions.

Like many players I have been playing this game since it first came out as a ftp. All the builds I could find all had major problems (which I had did not find until they were normally lvl 10 plus, I cannot tell you how maddening it is to delete character after character trying to find a build you consider better than 1/2 ass. There are major discrepancies in not just the builds but in fact most of the builds predate the release of the Radiant Servant clerical prestige.


So let's get down to the nitty gritty. There are many ways to build a cleric, but far and away it is expected that all healing clerics by the time you start approaching the late teen's in lvls that you are an RS. Radiant Servant prestige is the base of healing it is our go to for normal base non-major healing. This is because it allows us to regenerate our turns over time, which in turn allows us to heal for free saving our sp for when it is needed.


Race: I would recommend human there many races which give great bonuses but clerics have so few feats the extra one really comes in handy in the end.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Stats:
Strength: This determines how much damage you do in melee combat as well as the amount of weight you can carry. As well as your jump and swim ability. You will get bulls strength fairly early which you can use to supplement your strength. Later on you will also get divine power, tomes, and even items which will add to your str or any other appropriate stat. 8-10 is plenty but feel free to bump it up to 12-14.

Dexterity: This determines your bonus to ac, your Reflex saving throws, (for avoiding fireballs and other attacks that you can escape by moving quickly) & balance. Once again this is not a stat which is needed to a great degree. Again 8-10 is plenty

Constitution: This determines amount of hit points gained each lvl, as well as your Fortitude saving throws, (for resisting poison and similar threats) & concentration checks. A few points never hurts because as the cleric you are the backbone of the group. At least 12 (if a dps wipes its no big deal there are probably more to take its place or at least give you long enough to rez em. Same goes for the arcanes, but if a Healer dies odds are your party will be badly beaten up if not ending up in a party wipe). We are looking for 350+ hp end game.

Intelligence: Not needed

Wisdom: This is one of your 2 base stats. This determines your base SP. As well as your Will saving throws (for negating the effect of charm person and other spells). Max this puppy out.

Charisma: This is your other important base stat. This is very simple it determines the number of turn undeads you get (this is what a RS abuses as their primary healing with burst and arua, as well as DV, DI, ), as well as the ability to get the Divine Might enhancement to deal added damage in melee. Additionally it affects the efficiency of your turn undead to turn or kill undead. 14 cha is typically standard.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
Skill Points: It is a often repeated joke in DDO that clerics jump, swim and fall like rocks. This is very true.

(Useful skills)
Jump: is important (just remember arcane's can cast jump on you, there are also jump clickie's, as well as house P where with the correct amount of favor you can pay 100 gold to get the jump spell cast on you that lasts for almost an hour)

Concentration (or diplomacy): Concentration keeps you from getting interrupted when you are hit while casting. Diplomacy means you are not targeted as much but you must spam this skill over and over plus it does not help with being interrupted when you are hit.

Balance: One simple reason. It is imposable for you to heal if you are knocked down laying on your back.

(Maybe)
Haggle: Basically increases the money venders will pay for your stuff and reduces the cost of your purchasing. (get a haggle item)
UMD: Clerics are granted the ability to use all divine items at lvl 1, and the umd needed to use arcane items is just not worth the effort most of the time.

(Not so much)
Heal: This is the grand daddy of all shockers. It only comes into effect when people are resting at the rest shrine. Do not put any more points into this than is absolutely necessary. You will get items which will boost this plus with your aura and burst which regenerate you will normally be able to easily heal more than this skill will return in points also this has no effect on wf toons.

Swim: is not important. there are plenty of items of underwater breathing, underwater action, and the water breathing spell.

Bluff: this is used for pulling enemies. You are a back line caster. Enough said.

Hide, Sneak, Move silently: It is very nice to hide but you are wearing heavy plate armor. This means you make a lot of noise and if you cast anything you are automatically not sneaking any more.

Intimidate: this is not your job it's a tanks job.

Listen, Search, Spot: once again not your job.

Repair: If you take this skill you are beyond my help.

Tumble: While you wont be able to tumble while wearing plate you can take it off and tumble with 1 point in this stat.

Buffs: As always with any character if you belong to a guild try to keep the ship buffs on. This is a huge boost to your character even at high lvls.. Don't forget your bears strength, eagles splendor & bears endurance until you are high enough to get items which are +4 or better on these stats.


I will be continually editing this over the next few weeks so please bear with me.

[tgu]

I don't get what the point is of this topic is.

[Illiain]

One thing I've seen quite often is clerics with too few hps. A dead cleric is useless. Make sure to have enough hps to fail a save on a DBF/Meteor Swarm and stay alive.

A personal problem I have is clerics that stand there with aura up being a useless waste of a raid slot during part 1 of Shroud. Even if you're low str, you can grab a +5 weapon of greater construct bane and hit the portals. They have no AC, you can hit them and make that part go faster.

[pyrevamp]

As I said this is a work in progress. There will be much much more added to it over the next week or 2. This includes topics such as hp (if your dead its probably a party wipe), mitigating sp usage including what buffs to cast at the start of a quest & over healing, common pit falls for clerics, easy through epic items, healing liches and wf, and much much more.



I am making this as a guide which I can send people to instead of spending hours answering the same questions over and over.

[Atree]

(this is an ongoing guide)
Yes another guide to Clerics. Build Discussion and common pitfalls.

Why a healer spec cleric. Really that is all clerics are good for. Yes i know there are a few odd builds like the bb farmer but clerics are MADE to heal. If you want to be a battle cleric you have 2 choices... this is a sliding scale. Most battle capable are paladins they are basically fighters with some basic healing, then comes fvs they can heal or melee at the end game you are expected to heal but they are quite capable in the heat of battle. This is for people who are wanting to make a very strong healer, someone who will not let their party die.. ie a rs cleric.

If you want to write a guide, please don't propagate fallacies. Paladins are not "battle capable" clerics. The amount of healing a decently built paladin can dispense is miniscule compared to any half-baked radiant servant. Show me a paladin that can solo heal even one round of Shroud pt4, and I'll retract that statement. Even a multiclassed cleric that focuses on melee can, and should, be able to heal their party. Radiant servant is such a potent pre that it really doesn't take much effort to do so.

A Str-based cleric with divine might4 can be on par with any melee FS. There are pros and cons to each but the overall difference is minor at best. Both classes can make great offensive casters as well. Note that an offensive casting cleric can be considered a "healing cleric" since s/he will have maxed out sp and all the relevant healing feats by default.

Being a person who is constantly answering other peoples questions because they cannot find it on line, I have decided to make a guide where I can send people which will answer most of their questions.

Like many players I have been playing this game since it first came out as a ftp. All the builds I could find all had major problems (which I had did not find until they were normally lvl 10 plus, I cannot tell you how maddening it is to delete character after character trying to find a build you consider better than 1/2 ass. There are major discrepancies in not just the builds but in fact most of the builds predate the release of the Radiant Servant clerical prestige.


So let's get down to the nitty gritty. There are many ways to build a cleric, but far and away it is expected that all healing clerics by the time you start approaching the late teen's in lvls that you are an RS. Radiant Servant prestige is the base of healing it is our go to for normal base non-major healing. This is because it allows us to regenerate our turns over time, which in turn allows us to heal for free saving our sp for when it is needed.


Race: I would recommend human there many races which give great bonuses but clerics have so few feats the extra one really comes in handy in the end.

I agree that humans make great clerics. However dwarves and half-orcs are also very synergetic with clerics, especially melee focused ones.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Stats:
Strength: This determines how much damage you do in melee combat as well as the amount of weight you can carry. As well as your jump and swim ability. You will get bulls strength fairly early which you can use to supplement your strength. Later on you will also get divine power, tomes, and even items which will add to your str or any other appropriate stat. 8-10 is plenty but feel free to bump it up to 12-14.

Melee clerics will want 16-20 str, and will put all lvl ups into this.

Dexterity: This determines your bonus to ac, your Reflex saving throws, (for avoiding fireballs and other attacks that you can escape by moving quickly) & balance. Once again this is not a stat which is needed to a great degree. Again 8-10 is plenty

Constitution: This determines amount of hit points gained each lvl, as well as your Fortitude saving throws, (for resisting poison and similar threats) & concentration checks. A few points never hurts because as the cleric you are the backbone of the group. At least 12 (if a dps wipes its no big deal there are probably more to take its place or at least give you long enough to rez em. Same goes for the arcanes, but if a Healer dies odds are your party will be badly beaten up if not ending up in a party wipe). We are looking for 350+ hp end game.

Intelligence: Not needed

You say Int is not needed, yet advocate 3-4 skills below. Since clerics only get 2 base points per lvl this might be a problem. Can work on a human with their bonus, but other races will likely want to put a couple points here.

Wisdom: This is one of your 2 base stats. This determines your base SP. As well as your Will saving throws (for negating the effect of charm person and other spells). Max this puppy out.

Offensive casters will want to max Wis and put all lvl ups into it. Melee clerics can put very little, if any, points in Wis as it hardly affects them. Low Wis means they don't cast any spells that require a DC since they will likely not stick. With 8 base + 6 item + 3 enhancements + 2 tome = 19 enough for casting all spells. I personally prefer 12-14 starting for some flexibility with gearing.

Charisma: This is your other important base stat. This is very simple it determines the number of turn undeads you get (this is what a RS abuses as their primary healing, as well as Divine Vitality, Divine Healing, and Divine Cleansing), as well as the ability to get the Divine Might enhancement to deal added damage in melee. Additionally it affects the efficiency of your turn undead to turn or kill undead. 14 cha is typically standard.

Cha does indeed add to your turns, but this is not a big deal. Once you get Radiant servant turns regenerate at a rate of 1 per 2 minutes. Even with dumped Cha (6 on a dwarf) you will still get 10 or so turns at cap (with items and enhancements) which is plenty. My clerics rarely if ever run out of turns.

Radiant servant abilities make Divine Healing, and Divine Cleansing obsolete. Divine Vitality is a nice little perk but bursts and aura are far more useful uses for your turns.

Bottom line is that raising Cha makes more sense on a melee cleric in order to qualify for Divine Might. DM4 is a huge dps boost if you can get it.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
Skill Points: It is a often repeated joke in DDO that clerics jump, swim and fall like rocks. This is very true.

(Useful skills)
Jump: is important (just remember arcane's can cast jump on you, there are also jump clickie's, as well as house P where with the correct amount of favor you can pay 100 gold to get the jump spell cast on you that lasts for almost an hour)

Concentration (or diplomacy): Concentration keeps you from getting interrupted when you are hit while casting. Diplomacy means you are not targeted as much but you must spam this skill over and over.

Balance: One simple reason. It is imposable for you to heal if you are knocked down laying on your back.

Jump is nice, but since it caps at 40 and the spell gives 30, you can get by with little investment here.

Concentration is a MUST for most clerics. You will be getting hit at higher lvls, by area effects and cleaves at the very least , and failing conce checks can be deadly.

Diplomacy is not really going to do much for you.

Balance will help you get up faster, but will not prevent getting tripped (esp if you dump both Str and Dex). Putting some points here is highly recommended.

(Maybe)
Haggle: Basically increases the money venders will pay for your stuff and reduces the cost of your purchasing. (get a haggle item)
UMD: Clerics are granted the ability to use all divine items at lvl 1, and the umd needed to use arcane items is just not worth the effort most of the time.

(Not so much)
Heal: This is the grand daddy of all shockers. It only comes into effect when people are resting at the rest shrine. Do not put any more points into this than is absolutely necessary. You will get items which will boost this plus with your aura and burst which regenerate you will normally be able to easily heal more than this skill will return in points also this has no effect on wf toons.

Swim: is not important. there are plenty of items of underwater breathing, underwater action, and the water breathing spell.

Bluff: this is used for pulling enemies. You are a back line caster. Enough said.

Hide, Sneak, Move silently: It is very nice to hide but you are wearing heavy plate armor. This means you make a lot of noise and if you cast anything you are automatically not sneaking any more.

Intimidate: this is not your job it's a tanks job.

Listen, Search, Spot: once again not your job.

Repair: If you take this skill you are beyond my help.

Tumble: plate armor

Buffs: As always with any character if you belong to a guild try to keep the ship buffs on. This is a huge boost to your character even at high lvls.. Don't forget your bears strength, eagles splendor & bears endurance until you are high enough to get items which are +4 or better on these stats.


I will be continually editing this over the next few weeks so please bear with me.

Some inaccuracies here:

Bluff can be used to pull enemies but that is not its main intent.

Clerics will generally not be able to maintain a useable AC past lvl 10 or so. Switching to robes at that point will improve your jump, swim, tumble and sneaking. In fact those rare clerics that build for AC usually do so via a monk splash making the robes a must.

Clerics can make great tanks. Divines built for it are some of the sturdiest toons in the game. Quickened self-healing, aura that keeps ticking even when you are incapacitated (tripped, stunned etc), regenerating turns and sp (via torc, con-op) makes you very hard to kill. For such builds intimidate might make a lot of sense. My lvl 12/1/1 cle/fig/rog can tank Lailat and Sinvala with no external support. It is much easier for me to keep a PuG healed if I can get all the agro on me.

Clerics get a nifty lv 2 spell called Find Traps. With a splash of rogue a cleric can be built to handle traps and locks. Mine can get the Cabal trap at lvl and all the epic Carnival traps. This does not detract from my healing ability which is good enough for elite ToD, eChrono and eDQ.

It amuses me no end when I PuG to hear the ridicules comments about what clerics can and can't do. In most quests I can tank better than many barbs/fighters/paladins, I can disable most traps and I can heal well enough to boot (still can't heal stupid and no-con-no-fort-one-hit-wonders). My dps is probably only half of a properly built dps toon, I have no CC, and I will not be able to be the main tank in a couple of raids (ToD, eChrono) but I am sure other builds (such as Valiance's) probably can do those as well.

If you write a guide try to dispel myths rather than enforcing them.

[Jiirix]

Why a healer spec cleric. Really that is all clerics are good for. Yes i know there are a few odd builds like the bb farmer but clerics are MADE to heal.

Don't tell my what my clerics are good for and what not... You can play a boring healbot if you want to, but please don't encourage other to do so. Healbots are the oddest builds out there. Because clerics are made do heal AND do some casting/fighting. If there only were the D&D domains in ddo one could see healing is only one of them. (And even if you took the healing domain you gonna pick a second one, like WAR or MAGIC)

[Riorik]

The thread is well intentioned and there is some useful information buried in here...along with some misinformation like what cleric's can be built to do.

My suggestion is for you to edit the commentary. Stop writing about what you think cleric's can't do and just write about how to make a Radiant Servant PRE Cleric.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The thread is well intentioned and there is some useful information buried in here...along with some misinformation like what cleric's can be built to do.

My suggestion is for you to edit the commentary. Stop writing about what you think cleric's can't do and just write about how to make a Radiant Servant PRE Cleric.

This sounds like a good idea. I read most of it and most of it should be deleted on account of it being, at best, opinionated and, at worst, plainly wrong.

Firstly, no one should EVER build a plain "healer". This is usually a waste of a party slot. If all that is needed is a "healer"; get a hireling.

The cleric class is wonderfully versatile. However, there are 3 basic varieties of cleric which will guide most of the build choices that are made:

Variety 1:
Casting cleric.
A casting cleric is possibly what the OP is referring to when he suggests to make a full healer. Indeed, a casting cleric will be a better healer than either of the other 2 varieties on account of having maximum sized SP pool and many, if not all, of the feats that will boost SP efficiency for healing. However, as well as being an excellent healer a casting cleric will have a full arsenal of offensive spells and abilities including, but not limited to: blade barrier, greater command, implosion, banishment, radiant servant blast, hold person and destruction. Few builds can solo as effectively as a well piloted casting cleric and woe to the party who earns his wrath as he will happily cart all of your stones out of range of the shrine and proceed to finish the quest solo. Usually a pure build but possibly splashed with 1 or 2 monk.

Battle cleric.
A battle cleric focuses on DPS while still maintaining usefulness as a healer. Level ups will go into strength and splashing is likely to gain feats and proficiencies. Expect a well played battle cleric to go toe-to-toe with all the raid bosses and simultaneously heal and fight. Overall, I think this style of build has gone out of favour somewhat due to a reality that for ease of play a high wisdom will be more potent than a high strength.

Hybrid cleric.
This third variety is an attempt at blending the 2 styles with usually mixed results. Attempting to balance DPS, offensive casting and healing is a very tricky feat best left until you have experience and resources behind you. Indeed, I think the most powerful build in the game would undoubtedly be a hybrid cleric. It is quite possible to build a hybrid cleric which can raid heal, DPS, offensive cast and tank raid bosses (using intimidate) though it would take a massive amount of gear and many past lives. A very solid hybrid build that I can easily recommend to a new player is Tihocan's Warpriest of Siberys which is a very new player friendly build (though I wouldn't take THF. Heighten or something else instead).

Regarding skills:
Concentration is paramount and should be maxed on every cleric. Quicken is not a bypass to concentration as there will be situations in which scroll healing is necessary.
Balance is very important and there should always be a few points in this at least (extra skill points gained from a +2 int tome at level 7 is sufficient).
Tumble should always have 1 full rank in it to allow the use of the tumble skill.
UMD is indeed useful and with the decent charisma that clerics now benefit from it should be looked at if this can be fit in.

Regarding feats:
Every cleric should use and love blade barrier (requires: quicken spell, extend spell, maximise spell by level 11. Empower spell optional bonus).
Every cleric should use and love Radiant Servant (requires: empower healing by level 6).
Every cleric should use and love Radiant Servant Burst (requires: empower healing, maximise by level 6).

Regarding stats:
Strength: 14+ for battle clerics, left over points for casting clerics.
Dexterity: 8 unless required for TWF or evasion build. Finesse hybrid builds are viable.
Constitution: Expect a 6 point investment here, no less, no more (exceptions exist but this is a 95% rule that will serve you well).
Intelligence: high enough to get the skill points that you want.
Wisdom: 6 point investment for a battle cleric (less lowers SP pool too dramatically), 10 point investment for a hybrid + level ups, 16 point investment for an offensive caster + level ups.
Charisma: The most widely misunderstood stat for a cleric, imo. As close to a 6 point investment as points will allow.

Charisma and clerics.
For so long in DDO charisma was a dump stat for clerics but the RS PrE has seen that turned around. Now, you can interchange a radiant servant burst with a mass cure or mass heal quite easily. The extra SP that each turn signifies is consequently quite large. However, the use of charisma will change slightly for the different styles of cleric.

For a battle cleric, charisma is critical. A battle cleric gets maximum use out of every single turn because there is no time in which the other party members shouldn't be within the range of his auras and blasts. Additionally, if there are still turns left over here can increase his DPS with divine might which will give a better return on DPS than similar investments into strength.

For a caster cleric, charisma is almost as critical but mainly while soloing. It is amazing what a combination of radiant servant bursts, turn undead and RS aura can do in a dungeon primarily comprised of undead. In short, my clerics have been capable of going through undead faster than what an arcane can do with firewall. This will stay true all the way to level 20. In raid situations the opportunities to use RS abilities are less for a casting cleric but they can be important for times when SP is tight.

A hybrid cleric gets the best of both worlds. Using a combination of the above 2 strategies I have done entire quests in groups only using my RS abilities to heal. Due to my high survivability I could happily zerg a quest and take most of the aggro and use aura and bursts to heal through it along with any damage party members were getting. If they didn't keep up then they shouldn't need healing was my motto

Good luck with your guide

[AylinIsAwesome]

Why a healer spec cleric. Really that is all clerics are good for. Yes i know there are a few odd builds like the bb farmer but clerics are MADE to heal. If you want to be a battle cleric you have 2 choices... this is a sliding scale. Most battle capable are paladins they are basically fighters with some basic healing, then comes fvs they can heal or melee at the end game you are expected to heal but they are quite capable in the heat of battle. This is for people who are wanting to make a very strong healer, someone who will not let their party die.. ie a rs cleric.

...Clerics are only good for healing?


I really think you need to learn a LOT more about the class before you start writing guides on them.

[pyrevamp]

This is a guide for raid/epic healing/caster clerics. I accidentally deleted that part of the intro when I was editing it. For this I apologize.

[Nyvn]

This is a guide for raid/epic healing/caster clerics. I accidentally deleted that part of the intro when I was editing it. For this I apologize.

So a cleric should just sit there with their Aura ticking? If you're in melee range, and you're not swinging a weapon are you really contributing all that you can be? Also casting offensively on trash can actually save spell points for the boss fights.

[Habreno]

This sounds like a good idea. I read most of it and most of it should be deleted on account of it being, at best, opinionated and, at worst, plainly wrong.

Firstly, no one should EVER build a plain "healer". This is usually a waste of a party slot. If all that is needed is a "healer"; get a hireling.

The cleric class is wonderfully versatile. However, there are 3 basic varieties of cleric which will guide most of the build choices that are made:

Variety 1:
Casting cleric.
A casting cleric is possibly what the OP is referring to when he suggests to make a full healer. Indeed, a casting cleric will be a better healer than either of the other 2 varieties on account of having maximum sized SP pool and many, if not all, of the feats that will boost SP efficiency for healing. However, as well as being an excellent healer a casting cleric will have a full arsenal of offensive spells and abilities including, but not limited to: blade barrier, greater command, implosion, banishment, radiant servant blast, hold person and destruction. Few builds can solo as effectively as a well piloted casting cleric and woe to the party who earns his wrath as he will happily cart all of your stones out of range of the shrine and proceed to finish the quest solo. Usually a pure build but possibly splashed with 1 or 2 monk.

Battle cleric.
A battle cleric focuses on DPS while still maintaining usefulness as a healer. Level ups will go into strength and splashing is likely to gain feats and proficiencies. Expect a well played battle cleric to go toe-to-toe with all the raid bosses and simultaneously heal and fight. Overall, I think this style of build has gone out of favour somewhat due to a reality that for ease of play a high wisdom will be more potent than a high strength.

Hybrid cleric.
This third variety is an attempt at blending the 2 styles with usually mixed results. Attempting to balance DPS, offensive casting and healing is a very tricky feat best left until you have experience and resources behind you. Indeed, I think the most powerful build in the game would undoubtedly be a hybrid cleric. It is quite possible to build a hybrid cleric which can raid heal, DPS, offensive cast and tank raid bosses (using intimidate) though it would take a massive amount of gear and many past lives. A very solid hybrid build that I can easily recommend to a new player is Tihocan's Warpriest of Siberys which is a very new player friendly build (though I wouldn't take THF. Heighten or something else instead).

Regarding skills:
Concentration is paramount and should be maxed on every cleric. Quicken is not a bypass to concentration as there will be situations in which scroll healing is necessary.
Balance is very important and there should always be a few points in this at least (extra skill points gained from a +2 int tome at level 7 is sufficient).
Tumble should always have 1 full rank in it to allow the use of the tumble skill.
UMD is indeed useful and with the decent charisma that clerics now benefit from it should be looked at if this can be fit in.

Regarding feats:
Every cleric should use and love blade barrier (requires: quicken spell, extend spell, maximise spell by level 11. Empower spell optional bonus).
Every cleric should use and love Radiant Servant (requires: empower healing by level 6).
Every cleric should use and love Radiant Servant Burst (requires: empower healing, maximise by level 6).

Regarding stats:
Strength: 14+ for battle clerics, left over points for casting clerics.
Dexterity: 8 unless required for TWF or evasion build. Finesse hybrid builds are viable.
Constitution: Expect a 6 point investment here, no less, no more (exceptions exist but this is a 95% rule that will serve you well).
Intelligence: high enough to get the skill points that you want.
Wisdom: 6 point investment for a battle cleric (less lowers SP pool too dramatically), 10 point investment for a hybrid + level ups, 16 point investment for an offensive caster + level ups.
Charisma: The most widely misunderstood stat for a cleric, imo. As close to a 6 point investment as points will allow.

Charisma and clerics.
For so long in DDO charisma was a dump stat for clerics but the RS PrE has seen that turned around. Now, you can interchange a radiant servant burst with a mass cure or mass heal quite easily. The extra SP that each turn signifies is consequently quite large. However, the use of charisma will change slightly for the different styles of cleric.

For a battle cleric, charisma is critical. A battle cleric gets maximum use out of every single turn because there is no time in which the other party members shouldn't be within the range of his auras and blasts. Additionally, if there are still turns left over here can increase his DPS with divine might which will give a better return on DPS than similar investments into strength.

For a caster cleric, charisma is almost as critical but mainly while soloing. It is amazing what a combination of radiant servant bursts, turn undead and RS aura can do in a dungeon primarily comprised of undead. In short, my clerics have been capable of going through undead faster than what an arcane can do with firewall. This will stay true all the way to level 20. In raid situations the opportunities to use RS abilities are less for a casting cleric but they can be important for times when SP is tight.

A hybrid cleric gets the best of both worlds. Using a combination of the above 2 strategies I have done entire quests in groups only using my RS abilities to heal. Due to my high survivability I could happily zerg a quest and take most of the aggro and use aura and bursts to heal through it along with any damage party members were getting. If they didn't keep up then they shouldn't need healing was my motto

Good luck with your guide

Well written. Just want to give my own opinion of something.

Regarding stats:
Strength: 14+ for battle clerics, left over points for casting clerics.
Dexterity: 8 unless required for TWF or evasion build. Finesse hybrid builds are viable.
Constitution: Expect a 6 point investment here, no less, no more (exceptions exist but this is a 95% rule that will serve you well).
Intelligence: high enough to get the skill points that you want.
Wisdom: 6 point investment for a battle cleric (less lowers SP pool too dramatically), 10 point investment for a hybrid + level ups, 16 point investment for an offensive caster + level ups.
Charisma: The most widely misunderstood stat for a cleric, imo. As close to a 6 point investment as points will allow.

Strength: Not needed for a caster cleric. 8+6 from item is 14, +2 from certain buffs makes 16. You can still hit stuff on L20 with 14/16 (not saying you'll hit much, but...) and you can add up to 6 from guild ship buffs and tomes (if you're lucky to pull them) if you really want. Consider this up to 22 if you really want to put a lot of time into it, even starting with 8 base.

Dexterity: Agree with the 8 here. You should end up with a +6 item which gives you 14, 16 if you start with 10. Mine is 18 (the T2 or T3 on the Epic Buccaneer's Ring is +7 Dexterity and I started with 10, ate a +1 tome) and I don't use all the dex boost for my armor.

Constitution: 6 points, no more, no less. You are right on.

Intelligence: I started with 12, so I could get the skills I wanted. If I GR I will probably put another 2 points into it, to hit 6. Plus redo my skills.

Wisdom: Definitively 6 points minimum for a Battlecleric. Max with level ups for a caster or healer, or combination of the two. +6 item will hit 20 for the Battlecleric; enough for L9 spells. This can hit 40 on a first life for anyone but a WF; 23 base + 3 enhancements + 7 item + 3 exceptional + 4 tome = 40.

Charisma: My Elf dump-stat this. Even with a+6 item and a +2 tome I hit 18, which is 7 turns. I don't use them all.


Well stated, Wax.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Charisma: My Elf dump-stat this. Even with a+6 item and a +2 tome I hit 18, which is 7 turns. I don't use them all.


Well stated, Wax.

If you don't use them all; you aren't doing it right.

Here is the benefits of charisma:

Battle Cleric concerns: Low SP pool = fixed with more turns (cheaper than more wisdom), not enough DPS = helped along by divine might, not enough time to heal and fight = fixed with quickened bursts/auras.

Casting Cleric concerns: Not many effective nukes = fixed against undead with radiant servant blast, expected to eventually be able to solo heal raids = fixed with free healing from many auras/bursts, annoying undead casters/archers won't walk through blade barriers = fixed with turn undead.

Conclusion: on a point by point basis charisma will give more to any cleric than an investment in any stat other than wisdom. Therefore, a 6 point investment (if possible) is very desirable (won't always be possible, on some 28 point builds only a 4 point investment will be possible).

Thanks for the compliments.

Regarding stats I think you rewrote what I wrote, just differently

Str: I said leftovers for caster clerics. If you have points leftover after spending them on everything else (14 con, 14 cha, 18 wis, enough int for skills you want) then a few extra points in strength is really handy for encumbrance/melee/ray of enfeeblement. We agreed here.
Dex: We agreed there (8 unless evasion/TWF).
Con: We agreed there (6 point investment).
Int: We agreed there (enough int for desired skills).
Wis: We agreed there (though you didn't mention hybrids. Minimum 6 point investment for battle clerics, max for casters).
Cha: We didn't agree here but honestly try leveling up a cleric with 14 charisma (or close to) and see how much of a difference it makes. Radiant Servant Blast is better than firewall vs undead up until level 18 or so and you can never have enough of them.

In the end there is many ways to play a cleric.
Here are some ideas:
1. Regardless of what style of cleric you are when decently geared you should have no problem solo healing a normal Shroud (no pots).
2. You should be able to contribute more than just healing (DPS, CC or both).
3. Read the Path to Enlightenment.

[Atree]

This is a guide for raid/epic healing/caster clerics. I accidentally deleted that part of the intro when I was editing it. For this I apologize.

Melee clerics are possibly better than caster ones for most epics. Due to rampant immunities there are very few spells that a divine can use that outshine wailing on mobs in auto-crit (thanks to the mass hold spamming arcane). The extra damage provided by melee feats, higher str and possibly DM, can make a noticeable difference in completion times.

Playing a healbot, even in end-game raids (elite ToD, eChrono, eDQ) is wasting half the potential of a cleric. In fact in most epic quest I've run on my cleric the aura provided almost all the healing required.

[pyrevamp]

This last post will be the entire point of this thread. It will be how to use your aura to provide the majority of your healing and how cha which boosts your number of turns will also provide you quite a capable ability to melee. We are still there for healing not to be a front line fighter we need to know when to pull back and when to stay out of combat all together as well as not wasting sp on things like BB just because we can but rather to use it when its needed.

[Atree]

This last post will be the entire point of this thread. It will be how to use your aura to provide the majority of your healing and how cha which boosts your number of turns will also provide you quite a capable ability to melee. We are still there for healing not to be a front line fighter we need to know when to pull back and when to stay out of combat all together as well as not wasting sp on things like BB just because we can but rather to use it when its needed.

My clerics dump Cha yet still have enough turn uses to keep the aura on throughout the quest and burst when required. Those turns regen you know...

A battle-cleric IS a front line fighter. If you are not in the scrimmage then your aura is not healing the other melees. Also the torc and Con-op items do not proc if you do not get hit. Standing toe-to-toe with mobs gives you back sp so pulling out is not always the smart thing to do (sometimes it is). Using yourself as the target for mass cures/heals is often a very good option in PuGs so you can have better control of their location.

In undead heavy quests bursts and mass cures are some of the most potent AoE tools in the game. Plus they keep the other players healthy as a bonus . And as long as you get hit you regen sp which you can then spend on more spells...


I am not saying that Cha has no uses for a cleric. Bumping it up can be beneficial, but you have to do it for the right reasons.

Nor am I saying that clerics are the undisputed dps kings. They are not. At best I aim for 50-70% of the dps of a well built and similarly geared fighter, barb or rogue.

But Divines can, and should, be some of the sturdiest toons in the game. Building for survivability is very important, if for no other reason than the fact that if the "healer" dies it often leads to a party wipe. And the corollary is that you may as well contribute your not-insignificant dps to help kill things faster.

[Daunth]

does "8 str is plenty" mean that even choosing halfling to get 6 str would be ok?
With 8 str you'll get encumbered as soon as you get debuffed, and it won't be quite easy to follow the group with your aura.

Making a healbot is EXTREMELY easy. Really, it's a toon you couldn't gimp, even if you tried. The real value of a cleric can be measured by what he's able to do while healing. Dealing secondary dps is good, CC is good, damage is good. Sitting is not good. And if someone thinks that clerics only have to heal, they can as well believe wizards only have to haste: they're thinking about a toon who's working part-time. And it's quite a clichè that a guide shouldn't reinforce. It's like a tourist guide of Venice telling you that there's water somewhere.