WF wizard build need help with stats

[Guthan]

I have a WF wiz and I have 32pts. I'm decently new to making wizards and I know the highest stat I need to max is int which is 18 but what about the others? I've seen people put points into str which maybe I'm just new to playing a wiz, just sounds odd. I know Con is an important state and wis and cha are pretty much useless for a wizard, well maybe not cha because of UMD, but it's certainly not game changing to invest it I believe. That's why I'm debating into what stats to use?


From what I've seen I could even do

8 str
8 dex
20 con
18 int
6 wis
6 cha

Would that be considered good or should I put points into dex and str? I know intsight reflex will make my int count for saves but how about AC? Is it even considered a good idea to invest points into dex for the AC, or will my Stoneskin and displacement take care of that?

[EazyWeazy]

Drop CON to 18 and put the rest into STR would be my suggestion.

[TheDearLeader]

Drop CON to 18 and put the rest into STR would be my suggestion.

This seems like an okay idea.

Putting build points into Dex does *not* seem like a good idea. Let me say, in fact that it is a *bad* idea. Wizard/Sorc AC is nonexistent. Blur/Displace/Don't get swarmed.

[Guthan]

Why rest into str? I could imagine putting str up to 10 just for loot and preventing ray of enfeeblement from making you helpless, but why go higher than that? I mean at that point why don't I just invest a few points into wis to prevent my will saves from being terrible?

[TheDearLeader]

Why rest into str? I could imagine putting str up to 10 just for loot and preventing ray of enfeeblement from making you helpless, but why go higher than that? I mean at that point why don't I just invest a few points into wis to prevent my will saves from being terrible?

High Strength is good?

Carry capacity.
Helplessness prevention.

Yes, those are big reasons. However, you'll find that even as a caster, you'll be swinging at things. At low levels, running out of SP is common - its good to pop Master's Touch on a Greatsword/Greataxe and go wallop some mobs down. Much more effective than wand-whipping.

At higher levels, you'll still be hitting things, such as the mobs you just held. The difference between 8 Str and 14 Str Base is 12 points of damage per swing, if you pop on a Heavy Pick (they're auto-crit, proficiency does not matter).

Stick with the stats recommended.

[Guthan]

High Strength is good?

Carry capacity.
Helplessness prevention.

Yes, those are big reasons. However, you'll find that even as a caster, you'll be swinging at things. At low levels, running out of SP is common - its good to pop Master's Touch on a Greatsword/Greataxe and go wallop some mobs down. Much more effective than wand-whipping.

At higher levels, you'll still be hitting things, such as the mobs you just held. The difference between 8 Str and 14 Str Base is 12 points of damage per swing, if you pop on a Heavy Pick (they're auto-crit, proficiency does not matter).

Stick with the stats recommended.

Well what about wisdom? I mean by the looks of everything my fort will be great due to my con and so will my reflex due to a feat, but what about my will? I understand that 6 wisdom gives -2will saves and even though wizards are on the 12will scale doesn't that still hurt?

[TheDearLeader]

Well what about wisdom? I mean by the looks of everything my fort will be great due to my con and so will my reflex due to a feat, but what about my will? I understand that 6 wisdom gives -2will saves and even though wizards are on the 12will scale doesn't that still hurt?

Stick. With the stats. Recommended.

As a WF, you're immune sleep and Hold Person/Monster, the two biggest Will-save based spells. Your Will save is not going to matter.

[Keylon]

Contrary to what others have said I'd say go with wisdom and not str. Really why do you need str, sure you run out of sp for the first 6 levels but I'm sure you can hold out until then, and after that at level 7 you can just get a +2 tome and str items. My wizard has 8 str +2 from a tome and +6 from his gloves never have a problem with ray of enfeeblement, plus most stuff in shavarath and vale wont cast it anyway.

[hockeyrama]

personally I say stick with the added con.

Sure it 2 more points so only what 20 more hps but then all the hps you can get are always good. Second strength is not needed even in epic. I have seen many times, hold a mob, use a staff of shadows/dreamsplitter and start swinging. The run out of levels soo fast that the damage is really not important so how much you do at epic is not important. In early game I found bulls was enough to get me until I get a +6 str item and then later divine power clickies. So eithier way str was not necessary. As mentioned will is not really going to matter much and dex is going to help balance but then with some ranks and a balance item you should be fine there so not really sure why you would want it anywhere other then con. Max con and int on a pure caster. Your spells are your dps even when swinging as shown earlier. Buffing yourself early and killing worked fine even with a lower strenght. I leveled my wiz no problem with starting base str.

The only time i ever really missed a few more str points was swinging on portals the odd time i went to help with those.

[RTN]

Either stick w/ the CON or put it into STR.

A few points in STR really helps to keep you from being encumbered from carrying even a relatively small amount of loot (and to anyway that says just carry a STR item, slots are already short at end game without worrying about where to fit in a STR item). It does also help with using melee at the lower levels, as someone else wrote.

DEX is irrelevant (if you're worried about reflex saves, take the feat Insightful Reflexes).

WIS is irrelevant in most cases for a WF caster (and that save is your best anyway).

CHA is only useful for a few things and as a WF Wiz, most don't apply to you.

[Ridag]

For end game - max Int, max Con and done.

For leveling up you can go 18 Int, 18 Con and rest Str to melee through the low levels and then LR to max Int/Con.

It all depends on what is important to you as you level and at end game, and if you are willing to use a Lesser Heart to change your stats at end game.

Taking those builds points out of Con and into Wisdom I would personally not advise, as FoM already takes care of most Will Save based spells on top of WF inherent immunities. As someone points out in another thread, Will save also helps against Feeble Mind, but the current state of that debuff really doesn't make that a big deal.

Having the extra Str at endgame is not really important either, as you can swap in a +6 item or slot +6 Str into an epic if you find encumbrance to be that troubling to you.

Of course these are all opinions, and everybody has a different one. I highly encourage you to build for your playstyle. That is ultimately what will make the character, and the game, enjoyable.

[Phidius]

... My wizard has 8 str +2 from a tome and +6 from his gloves never have a problem with ray of enfeeblement, plus most stuff in shavarath and vale wont cast it anyway.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Dropping Con down to 18 frees up 6 build points. Putting those into strength would free up your gloves slot.

How many people here would trade 20 hit points for the ability to reclaim an inventory spot? I know I would - and have.

[Bobthesponge]

treating STR as a pure dump stat is a foolish idea. With 18 CON or even 16 CON on a WF wiz you should be able to hit 500HP without too much trouble - 400 with ease. The STR, however, will help you at levles 1-20.

Yes, in spite of what others have said, STR is important at end game. If you are encumbered in ToD your running speed will be slow and you will have difficulty kiting. In epics and end game after you hold monsters you will need to beat them down - the faster the better - so extra STR will help with damage and free up a slot. My Sorc doesn't have a slot for a STR item atm so the starting STR helps a lot.

As been said, at lower levels you will spend most of your time swinging a GS or GA anyway because you don't have the spells to do much else besides pike.

If you plan to solo you will need STR to melee in firewalls (at med levels) and beat down held monsters (at higher levels).

getting a few more HP is not a good trade off. If you can't survive as a self buffer and self healer with 400HP then you are doing something wrong. That is a playstyle issue not a build issue.

WIS, DEX and CHA are, as noted by others, dump stats.

[Bargol]

The best stats are as the OP posted:

8 str - +2 tome and +6 strength item give 16 strength you won't have problems here
8 dex - Why if you want to increase your saves there is a feat for this to use your intelligence for reflex saves
20 con - HP is the most important stat at high levels
18 int - Always max (Casting Stat)
6 wis - Your will saves will be weak you would have to give up to much to really make this matter endgame
6 cha - Other then UMD....why?

[justplayingthegame]

Drop CON to 18 and put the rest into STR would be my suggestion.

lol,
seriously.
what will str gain you over HP?

[justplayingthegame]

Either stick w/ the CON or put it into STR.

A few points in STR really helps to keep you from being encumbered from carrying even a relatively small amount of loot (and to anyway that says just carry a STR item, slots are already short at end game without worrying about where to fit in a STR item). It does also help with using melee at the lower levels, as someone else wrote.

DEX is irrelevant (if you're worried about reflex saves, take the feat Insightful Reflexes).

WIS is irrelevant in most cases for a WF caster (and that save is your best anyway).

CHA is only useful for a few things and as a WF Wiz, most don't apply to you.

GOOD ADVICE HERE.
IMO max int cuz yer short already from WF, then max con.
everything else is a non factor unless you are a very experinced caster and are going to do a heavily geared battle caster.

[Keylon]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Dropping Con down to 18 frees up 6 build points. Putting those into strength would free up your gloves slot.

How many people here would trade 20 hit points for the ability to reclaim an inventory spot? I know I would - and have.

Reclaim an inventory spot? My wizard has so many free inventory spots gloves are the least of my problems.
Head: Minos, Neck: Torin's chocker, Trinket: Eardweller, Cloak: Napkin, Belt: Vorne's Belt, Rings are empty, Gloves +6 str with small guild augment for more hp/sp, Boots: ff with small guild augment, Shield: Light and Darkness. I have bracers, goggles, and both rings free so I'm not crying about loosing the glove slot, plus so far I can fill up my entire invtory and still not get encumbered. So str is really pointless, go with more con or wisdom.

[Bobthesponge]

The best stats are as the OP posted:

8 str - +2 tome and +6 strength item give 16 strength you won't have problems here
8 dex - Why if you want to increase your saves there is a feat for this to use your intelligence for reflex saves
20 con - HP is the most important stat at high levels
18 int - Always max (Casting Stat)
6 wis - Your will saves will be weak you would have to give up to much to really make this matter endgame
6 cha - Other then UMD....why?

Best stats? possibly for you, but definately not for my WF wiz and possibly not for the OP. Too many playstyle factor enter into it. Dumping STR for extra CON on a self buffing, self healing toon is not an optimal choice.

I'm glad you like those stats, but leave the hyperbole out of it.

[Darkrok]

I like 3 different mixes.

14str/18con/18int: Easiest to level at low levels. Helps with stunned mob damage.
8str/20con/18int: Max hp's and hp's are a good thing.
8str/18con/18int/12cha: I like this one more on a Wiz/Rog - helps you get to no-fail scroll healing with less item swaps. Extremely handy if you want to be a more full-featured UMD character. Again, not sure I'd go here on a pure but I think it's really nice for the rogue splashes.

[Bobthesponge]

Reclaim an inventory spot? My wizard has so many free inventory spots gloves are the least of my problems.
Head: Minos, Neck: Torin's chocker, Trinket: Eardweller, Cloak: Napkin, Belt: Vorne's Belt, Rings are empty, Gloves +6 str with small guild augment for more hp/sp, Boots: ff with small guild augment, Shield: Light and Darkness. I have bracers, goggles, and both rings free so I'm not crying about loosing the glove slot, plus so far I can fill up my entire invtory and still not get encumbered. So str is really pointless, go with more con or wisdom.

Nice setup but people get different gear. My sorc has the following:

Head: Minos
Neck: Torc
Eyes: GS Mana Goggles
Trinket: Epic Spyglass/Head of GF
Cloak: Napkin
Body: Regalia of the Phoenix (upgraded)
Boots: Con Op HP
Rings: CHA +6, STR +6/poison disease immun
Wrist: Bracers of the Glacier
Gloves: Gloves of the Glacier

Notice my ring slot needs to accomodate STR and a disease item. hoping to get a TOD ring there soon too. I can't use gloves or bracers because that is my glacier set.

The point is becuase I DID NOT USE STR AS A DUMP STAT i can easily run without the STR ring. Maybe as i get more gear i can get a STR item but not now, not 100%

STR is never a dump stat. you just don't have to max it out.