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  1. #1
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    Default Mammas Don't Let Your Wizards grow up without HP.

    tl;dr version:
    What's better for wiz18/rog2?
    1) ~411 HP lich with ~38 wail DCs, 2011SP room to spec for elemental damage (but no heighten)
    2) ~350 HP with ~39 enchant DCs, 2211SP, SLA hypno and dance (no maximize)
    Both would have good UMD, dirtyish evasion and (I think) epic search and disable skills. The lich form gives a tiny boost in that direction with its general hardiness and increased INT which benefits reflex save as well. Neither have Quicken .

    Windy version:
    In the days before Wizard PrEs, I played a Drow Wiz 18/Rog 2 with 10 starting CON - let's call him DingDing. This effort to maximize spell DCs and trap skills was my first character that I really leveled very far and I was brand new to most of the quests. I learned the ins and outs of gearing up, group buffing, frugal spell casting and agro management better than any other with that squishy guy. Just a few ranks shy of 20, I hit a wall at the point where my limited spell points and gear along with the almost complete lack of traps, massive enemy saves and blanket immunities made him un-fun to play since I was no longer able to drag my PUGs through to victory as I had up until then.

    I set DingDing aside and capped a human Radiant Servant, a dwarven two weapon Kensei and a very fun WF FvS. In the meantime, Pale Master and Archmage were released and epic saves and DCs were adjusted. The tier 3 spyglass trinket and good luck ring available from Smuggler's Cove along with our small guild starting to look more seriously at epics and high-level raiding have re-kindled my interest in DingDing.

    I don't know exactly what his stats are. This is my only character that doesn't show up on MyDDO and that's probably for the best anyway since I made some embarrasing mistakes while leveling him (starting CON, Enlarge, necro too late, etc.)

    I'm not sure which of the two feats I took at level 6 was the wiz bonus and which was the standard character feat. I took Maximize at level 9 but this shows the Archmage version with that swapped out for GSF: Enchantment.
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
    (2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 166
    Spell Points: 1695 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 19
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            12                    14
    Constitution         10                    12
    Intelligence         20                    30
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             10                    12
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Supreme Tome used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               5                     6
    Bluff                 3                     4
    Concentration         2                    28
    Diplomacy             4                     5
    Disable Device        9                    34
    Haggle                4                     5
    Hide                  5                     6
    Jump                  6                     7
    Move Silently         5                     6
    Open Lock             5                    16
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                5                    10
    Search                9                    40
    Spot                  3                    27
    Tumble                2                     3
    Use Magic Device      4                    24
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
    
    Level 2 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
    
    Level 3 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    Level 6 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
    
    Level 12 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    
    Level 15 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
    
    Level 17 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
    
    Level 18 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    
    Level 20 (Wizard)
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Perception IV
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes IV
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration IV
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
    Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
    Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    Enhancement: Wizard Archmage V
    Enhancement: Archmage Secondary Spell Mastery I: Necromancy
    Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery II: Enchantment
    Enhancement: Enchantment I - Hypnotism
    Enhancement: Enchantment II - Otto's Resistible Dance
    I've since learned the situational benefits of quickened self-healing and would much prefer to have taken a greater focus or two than things like Enlarge or maybe even greater spell pen but that's what I have to work with.

    You may have other ideas, but the options I came up with were swap Maximize to GSF Enchant (as shown above) and go archmage with the 1SP extended, enlarged, heightened Hypno and 3SP dance or swap out Heighten to GSF Necro and PM lich. I'm leaning toward AM since that props up my low SP pool and hopefully at least lets me CC for a long time without chugging pots. The lich is tempting for the self-healing aura, extra HP and synergy with the trap skills but the fact that I'll have 39+ UMD means it's not my only self-healing option.

    I'd consider TRing but probably wouldn't want to spend TP on a LR unless I could instantly become so much more effective. I have very little raid loot and no green steel on him yet.

    Do you think it's worth farming a torc and bauble, crafting CHA skill +6 goggles, conc opp HP cloak, INT skills weapon, reflex boost, etc for DingDing and maybe TR or should I just stick to my other characters for epics and ToDs and leave the mass holds to someone else?

    Are there certain quests where you would recommend this kind of build would shine over others?

    At the very least, it would be nice to be able to clear part 1 shroud trash without running out of SP halfway through.

    Thank you.
    "What? Where?" *clunk, thud* :-)

  2. #2
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MeToo View Post
    (but no heighten)
    That's a deal breaker, IMHO. Heightened Webs and Discos are too good to pass up.

    Necro spells (other than evervate/energy drain) are nearly useless in epics. Webs, Discos, and Mass Hold will be your bread and butter in epics, no matter your spec.

  3. #3
    Community Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    That's a deal breaker, IMHO. Heightened Webs and Discos are too good to pass up.

    Necro spells (other than evervate/energy drain) are nearly useless in epics. Webs, Discos, and Mass Hold will be your bread and butter in epics, no matter your spec.
    Thanks. That reaffirms my choice to swap for archmage enchantment. Hopefully the cheap hypno and dance SLAs will tide me over between expensive mass holds. Now I wish I had SF: Conjuration for the 3SP webs to go with them.
    "What? Where?" *clunk, thud* :-)

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