First toon, rogue help request :)

[Bad-Monkey]

Well this is what I came up with. If you have any advice please post. Its a str build rogue btw.

Bluff -2 7
Concentration 3 7
Diplomacy 2 24
Disable Device 6 29
Haggle 2 24
Heal -1 2
Hide 3 31
Intimidate -2 1
Jump 7 31
Listen -1 2
Move Silently 3 31
Open Lock 7 30
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 6
Search 6 31
Spot 3 25
Swim 3 8
Tumble 7 11
Use Magic Device 2 24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Level 2 (Rogue)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II

Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II

Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III

Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Roguee Sneak Attack Accuracy III

Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV

Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II

Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II

Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III

Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III

Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow

PS I had to cut and paste this, but it seems there is a way to do it via the builder. can anyone tell me how? Also I realize that the dwarven waraxe isnt the max weapon but I wanted it for this toon.

[Ilklr]

First, you get mad bonus points for spelling it "rogue." Second, you get more mad bonus points for a strength based rogue. Not bad for your first outing.

At a glance, it looks pretty good. You have the whole twf line, and power attack. You maxed UMD. You should do fine with this build. I might recommend taking slippery mind over one of the skill mastery feats. Mathematically, that second save chance is huge. Of course, will saves tend to be less important than the other two, and the extra skill mastery works great too.

[NinjaNeed]

Really need to see your stats too, str, dex, con and int etc.

To use the character planner to post in the forum click the "Forum Export" button, then choose the options you want (default is fine), then click "Copy Data to Clipboard". Come to the forums and simply paste it into the post.

I am not an expert on the rogue class (my lv 20 rogue is pretty gimp), but you will want improved evasion as soon as you can get it.

Drop the improved hide/move silently enhancements, these are very seldom used and the AP's can be much better spent elsewhere.

I donot see any toughness feats at all, BIG mistake! You NEED a toughness feat in order to spend AP's on increasing your HP, if you do not do this on a pure rogue then you will likely have only 200 ish hp at lv20 and be one or two shoted all the time. Drop something and get toughness (power attack if possible, but not sure if it is a requirement for Assasin)

I leave the rest for a more experienced player to comment on.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I'd drop Rogue DEX 2 for Rogue Extra Action Boost 2. And take Haste Boost earlier.

[Ullysses]

Definatly need toughness on a rogue! 400 hp's is a good min goal to have at lvl 20!

Improved evasion as early as you can get it.

Also, taking Power Attack at lvl 1 will cause some 'to hit' issues at lower lvls. Might want to hold off on it till later, when you have gear to compensate for it.

Otherwise, looks solid. But seeing your stats would help spot any other issues.

[Winter_storm]

well power attack at level one is well, your hits will be good but your misses will be multiple. Your missing the first part of race and ability ##'s. I'm guessing dwarf and I think dwarven axe is given as a free dwarf feat:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dwarf

so the feat is not needed.

first two feats should be TWF and toughness. the rest is well ok

your missing toughness enhancements also. Rogues are squishy and you need to get the hp high as you can second to strength. TWF needs dex 15 with a +2 tome at level 7. Int should be anywhere from 10 to 14 (all rogues have different opinion on this number, I always get flamed for saying 14 but they are right in 10 or 12 is good enough)

[Bad-Monkey]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 240
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    21
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         14                    18
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    34
Bluff                -2                     7
Concentration         3                     7
Diplomacy             2                    24
Disable Device        6                    29
Haggle                2                    24
Heal                 -1                     2
Hide                  3                    31
Intimidate           -2                     1
Jump                  7                    31
Listen               -1                     2
Move Silently         3                    31
Open Lock             7                    30
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     6
Search                6                    31
Spot                  3                    25
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                7                    11
Use Magic Device      2                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow

ok sorry about leaving off the stats. The improved hide is necessary for assassin. I'll go back and take toughness seems like good advice. I didn't know that dwarven axe was free. I'll look into that too. give me a bit and I'll repost.

[Bad-Monkey]

ok so here is the updated build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    21
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         14                    18
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    33
Bluff                -2                     6
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy             2                    23
Disable Device        6                    28
Haggle               -2                     0
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  5                    37
Intimidate           -2                     0
Jump                  7                    30
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         5                    37
Open Lock             7                    29
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    30
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                7                    17
Use Magic Device      2                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow

[Ilklr]

I'm guessing dwarf and I think dwarven axe is given as a free dwarf feat

Nope. Dwarfs get DA as a martial weapon, which rogues are not proficient with. I'm not sold on going Dwarf and using DAs as a rogue, but I didn't say anything as I assumed he really wanted it.

As for the other replies, I concur mostly. Sorry I didn't read the post very thoroughly, and didn't catch everything.

I do not see any toughness feats at all, BIG mistake! You NEED a toughness feat in order to spend AP's on increasing your HP, if you do not do this on a pure rogue then you will likely have only 200 ish hp at lv20 and be one or two shoted all the time.

Well, toughness isn't THAT huge of a difference. It's a 42 hp difference for rogues. He'd still have well over 200 hp (still around 400, depending on con) with gear. That being said, yes you definitely need toughness. This is another advantage of going the human khopesh route; you get that bonus feat.

Improved evasion as early as you can get it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not totally sold on that. I do agree that a rogue should get improved evasion, but I'm not certain it's that make or break, in terms of getting it at 10. Opportunist is a fairly big boon offensively. Your reflex save should be good enough that you're pretty much only failing your saves on a 1 anyway, and most area effects can be avoided with skill. I'd personally take opportunist at 10, improved evasion at 13, slippery mind or skill mastery at 16, and skill mastery at 19.

[Ullysses]

Toughness isnt just for the 42 hp's, it also opens up the toughness enhancements, which is one thing that makes dwarves so desirable.

Dwarves get dwarven axe as a martial weapon, rogues will still need to take the proficiency, or splash a class with access to all martial weapons, and miss out on the capstone.

Might not need improved evasion by 10, but it can make a huge difference in damage from Elite traps, which really start to hurt around that level. Around then is when you start seeing a lot of trap boxes on the 'other' side of the traps! . I don't want to run some of the VON quests at level without it!

[Ilklr]

Toughness isnt just for the 42 hp's, it also opens up the toughness enhancements, which is one thing that makes dwarves so desirable.

DOH! Forgot he's a dwarf. >< My bad. But yeah, either way toughness is pretty huge.

Might not need improved evasion by 10, but it can make a huge difference in damage from Elite traps, which really start to hurt around that level. Around then is when you start seeing a lot of trap boxes on the 'other' side of the traps! . I don't want to run some of the VON quests at level without it!

Good point.

[Tinco]

WF: Slashing is not a particularly good feat. You could take SF:UMD or Quick Draw or O(versized)TWF. OTWF helps your To-hit more than the weapon focus.

[Zenako]

You would get more answers to your questions and focused responses if this was posted in the Rogue forum.....

that's where all the rogue happy players check out to offer advice...

oh wait...they just trashed all the class specific forums...good luck...

[Tinco]

He would also get more advice if you just stopped ranting and actually gave him some. Your logic is completely flawed btw, but since it's pretty much elementary maths I'll let you figure out that one by yourself.

[Templarion]

It's rouge btw.


And I've heard they are making durid class, too. That would be awesome.

[Adrian99]

Your stats and enhancements are fine. Your feat selection would be more beneficial (better DPS) like this:

1) Toughness
3) Two-Weapon Fighting
6) Power Attack
9) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10 rogue) Crippling Strike
12) Improved Critical: Slashing
13 rogue) Opportunist
15) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
16 rogue) Improved Evasion
18) Skill Focus: UMD or Quick Draw or WF: Slashing or whatever

[Bad-Monkey]

wow lots of advice here. Thanks for the tips first off. Yeah I know that dwarven axe isn't the max weapon lay out on this toon, but I kinda want to roll with it. So I'll be doing the make up again adding dwarven axe. I am a bit confused as to why slashing wouldn't be as beneficial as over sized weapon (TH) So if you could clarify I'd appreciate it thanks again guys, great responses here! One more thing, is there a list of what feat opens up other feats somewhere?

[Bad-Monkey]

It's rouge btw.


And I've heard they are making durid class, too. That would be awesome.

I cant wait for the "durid" so I can make my fav class, a druid/ranger.

[Ilklr]

It's rouge btw.


And I've heard they are making durid class, too. That would be awesome.

You are kidding, right? It's "rogue."

[Ilklr]

wow lots of advice here. Thanks for the tips first off. Yeah I know that dwarven axe isn't the max weapon lay out on this toon, but I kinda want to roll with it. So I'll be doing the make up again adding dwarven axe. I am a bit confused as to why slashing wouldn't be as beneficial as over sized weapon (TH) So if you could clarify I'd appreciate it thanks again guys, great responses here! One more thing, is there a list of what feat opens up other feats somewhere?

Neither weapon focus nor OTWF are worth a feat slot. Weapon focus is +1 to hit, and OTWF is +2 to hit. The only reason one gets weapon focus, ususally, is because he's a fighter and it's a prereq for weapon specialization. Your to-hit will be fine without either feat. You're looking at about 40+ with PA on. As it is, it's no big issue for you. Just swap in proficiency with DA for weapon focus, and you're done.

I don't know of a place that clearly lays out feat progression trees for DDO. The next best thing is here, which shows feat progression for 3.5 D&D.