Looking for Bard DPS build

[mercedesbinns07]

Hello, I am looking for the ultimate Bard dps build. I am VIP and very familiar with the game, have capped 3 toons and am currently TRing one of them into a Monster. My bard is a 20 Drow Warchanter II, using a Min II Falchion, and I am looking to TR her into an effective Bard dps build by multiclassing. However, I am stuck.

The skills she must absolutely have are UMD and haggle. The rest are open for negotiation. I want to be able to still cast, so kind of leaning away from barbarian, but I won't rule it out. I am just not sure about how to plan her. I would like suggestions on which race would be most effective (absolutely excluding Warforged, Halfling, and Dwarf races), what her starting stats should be, which levels I should take which classes, etc, which feats would be more effective for dps, if she should stay THF like on her first life or switch to TWF... etc, etc.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

-Jes

[maha0201]

1st wrong forum XD
2nd skill is must in preform so you can otto some :P and chant some
3rd i would go 16 bard/2ftr/2bbn - since you use 2hf no big point in rog, go either human or Horc 10-12 cha rest on str / con maybee to int if you are Horc, get +2 cha and int before tring though

[mercedesbinns07]

Meh, I couldn't find the right forum, so I figured I'd go with my own server. ^.^ As for that build, I was trying not to go barb. I don't cast otto's to be honest, all it does is cause lag, and I usually discourage anyone else from casting it in VoD and Shroud. Chanting would not be a problem. I was thinking maybe 16 bard, 4 fighter. If there are any official builds for that, that would be awesome.

-Jes

[blitzschlag]

Meh, I couldn't find the right forum, so I figured I'd go with my own server. ^.^ As for that build, I was trying not to go barb. I don't cast otto's to be honest, all it does is cause lag, and I usually discourage anyone else from casting it in VoD and Shroud. Chanting would not be a problem. I was thinking maybe 16 bard, 4 fighter. If there are any official builds for that, that would be awesome.

-Jes

i think he was talking about ottos irresistible dance. single target. anyway.

bard thf
high str. levelups there
basic dex
high con
basic int
basic wis
medium/low charisma

feats thf (musthave)
toughness
pa
weapon focus (warchanter pre)
extend (displacement/rage/haste)
maximize (for masscures)


bard twf
high str. levelups there
get enough dex for gtwf (e.g. starting 15 and +2 tome. starting 14 if you have +3 tome)
medium/high con
basic int
basic wis
medium/low charisma

feats twf (musthave)
3 x twf
pa
weapon focus (warchanter pre)
toughness
extend (displacement/rage/haste)
maximize (for masscures)


16bard/2ftr/2barb (you only get 3 rages anyway which are ok for boss battles or endurance fights) if you need to cast you can always dismiss the rage.
16bard/2ftr/2rog evasion. even trapskills possible (i would not recommend it though on this build)
20bard

[maha0201]

well as you can see i have 16bard/2ftr/2bbn, and i do use otto especialy in epics since dc is youre preforme and not youre cha mod + lvl of spell....
you need base of 17 preform iirc (without item) for AC song. [by otto i mean otto irrisistable dance - the one on touch not dance ball ]
If you go dps part do you plan to go Warchanter, spellsinger or virtuoso ?
On swithcing to 2wf do you have wepons on you you are aware you sohould then craft 2 min2 or get 2 boss beaters, if you have min2 falcion i would stay 2hf

As for bbn part 2 bbn give you +4 hp over ftr, power attack enhancment barbarian constitution 1, dr 1 (1 more rage if you go WC 1 rage enhancment and enhancment for 25% longer rage) remember if you go bbn you dont need to be raged all the time

Feats power attack, improved critical: wepon choice, toughness, greater style fighting - this are 6 + 1 for youre PrE + quicken + extend (if you go human youll have 8 feats + 2 ftr feats) so 1 is empty you can get stuning blow sf or empower healing

[mercedesbinns07]

well as you can see i have 16bard/2ftr/2bbn, and i do use otto especialy in epics since dc is youre preforme and not youre cha mod + lvl of spell....
you need base of 17 preform iirc (without item) for AC song. [by otto i mean otto irrisistable dance - the one on touch not dance ball ]
If you go dps part do you plan to go Warchanter, spellsinger or virtuoso ?
On swithcing to 2wf do you have wepons on you you are aware you sohould then craft 2 min2 or get 2 boss beaters, if you have min2 falcion i would stay 2hf

As for bbn part 2 bbn give you +4 hp over ftr, power attack enhancment barbarian constitution 1, dr 1 (1 more rage if you go WC 1 rage enhancment and enhancment for 25% longer rage) remember if you go bbn you dont need to be raged all the time

Feats power attack, improved critical: wepon choice, toughness, greater style fighting - this are 6 + 1 for youre PrE + quicken + extend (if you go human youll have 8 feats + 2 ftr feats) so 1 is empty you can get stuning blow sf or empower healing

I don't use any form of dancing spells, otto's or dancing ball. As for prestige, I'm sticking with Warchanter. I may go barbarian splash, since I am already equipped with the falchion. For healing, in response to Blitz, I only use scrolls when necessary, which is why I must have the UMD. I appreciate the responses. Any recommendation on actual stat points?

-Jes.

[ulticleo]

well as you can see i have 16bard/2ftr/2bbn, and i do use otto especialy in epics since dc is youre preforme and not youre cha mod + lvl of spell....

Wait, what? my bard is only lvl 12, but this is new. afaik (I have two casters), otto's irresistible dance doesn't have a save, but is subject to spell resistance, which is off you char level, feats, enhancements, and gear. otto's sphere has a save which should be off 10 + char mod + spell level(+highten) + feats + items (and also SR as above). This is the first I am hearing that a bard's disco ball is based off the perform skill.

Can someone please confirm/refute this?

[Chette]

Wait, what? my bard is only lvl 12, but this is new. afaik (I have two casters), otto's irresistible dance doesn't have a save, but is subject to spell resistance, which is off you char level, feats, enhancements, and gear. otto's sphere has a save which should be off 10 + char mod + spell level(+highten) + feats + items (and also SR as above). This is the first I am hearing that a bard's disco ball is based off the perform skill.

Can someone please confirm/refute this?

You are correct, irresistible has no save and is spell resistance only. Dancing ball has a save and is based off spell DC. Neither have anything to do with perform. Only fascinate is a perform check, or the virtuoso dance-song.

[Chette]

The skills she must absolutely have are UMD and haggle.

Don't forget perform. A bard that can't fasciniate epic trash is a pretty terribly built bard. You need ~50 perform to hit most epic mobs, which requires full or nearly full ranks for most builds that don't max out charisma.

I want to be able to still cast, so kind of leaning away from barbarian, but I won't rule it out.

You don't have to rage all the time, or ever really, to take advantage of a barbarian splash. The run speed and sprint boost alone are worth it IMO and there are some other nice enhancements as well.

I am just not sure about how to plan her. I would like suggestions on which race would be most effective (absolutely excluding Warforged, Halfling, and Dwarf races)

Human or half-orc

what her starting stats should be

20 str
8 dex
16 con
8 int
8 wis
12 cha

which levels I should take which classes

I like to get fighter and barbarian levels in early for the run speed and haste boost. Then I like to get to 8 bard ASAP for a bump to song damage. Try to do your fighter splashes when you need feats and try to "pause" your barding when you get to nice levels, such as 8 and 14 for songs, 7, 10 and 13 for spells, etc.

Don't forget that you don't really *need* to splash to get great DPS, and by staying pure instead of splashing you give EVERY member of the party +1 to hit and damage from your songs. So, before you splash, ask yourself, am I getting enough benefit out of this to make up for giving everybody else (probably 9 other raid member) +1 to damage, and +1 to hit (very useful in epics)? I like to splash on TWF so I can get extra feats to take take khopesh, but on a THF I would be much more hesitant.

[mercedesbinns07]

Don't forget perform. A bard that can't fasciniate epic trash is a pretty terribly built bard. You need ~50 perform to hit most epic mobs, which requires full or nearly full ranks for most builds that don't max out charisma.



You don't have to rage all the time, or ever really, to take advantage of a barbarian splash. The run speed and sprint boost alone are worth it IMO and there are some other nice enhancements as well.



Human or half-orc



20 str
8 dex
16 con
8 int
8 wis
12 cha


I like to get fighter and barbarian levels in early for the run speed and haste boost. Then I like to get to 8 bard ASAP for a bump to song damage. Try to do your fighter splashes when you need feats and try to "pause" your barding when you get to nice levels, such as 8 and 14 for songs, 7, 10 and 13 for spells, etc.

Don't forget that you don't really *need* to splash to get great DPS, and by staying pure instead of splashing you give EVERY member of the party +1 to hit and damage from your songs. So, before you splash, ask yourself, am I getting enough benefit out of this to make up for giving everybody else (probably 9 other raid member) +1 to damage, and +1 to hit (very useful in epics)? I like to splash on TWF so I can get extra feats to take take khopesh, but on a THF I would be much more hesitant.

Wow, this is very insightful. Thank you a lot! I totally looked over perform, even though my bard is capped out at 52 Perform atm. ._. But yes, she will have max perform, umd, and haggle next life. But I'd like your opinion on how many levels of barb and fighter I should take. Are you basing this off the standard 16/2/2? Thanks!


-Jes

[begbie]

First.. multi-classing is not the wisest course...

Go HOrc.. pure bard Warchanter... 18 8 14 8 10 14 (or so) and eat as many +2 tomes as you can get.

Go 2 hand weapon user... all 3 feats... toughness... slash or blunt spec and then craft gs great axe or maul...and power attack... last feat extend?

With those stats you'll have haggle, umd, perform, jump and balance for sure.

HOrc and bard enhancements are combat (horc damage, pa, 2h effects) , strength/chr and haggle (get all 4 ranks) focused...

You're dps will be excellent.. your songs will improve everything and your aoe's/buffs wil rwk. Never forget rage spell and displacement.

With this build you should reach at least a 65 haggle (gear etc), your cc will be solid (especially with mindfog)... and you'll hit as hard as any tank out there (except a barb).. with the ability to get hit less and self heal.

My bard is on her 2nd life and I am very happy with her dps.

p.s. Do not multi-class... your endgame will suffer.

[mercedesbinns07]

First.. multi-classing is not the wisest course...

Go HOrc.. pure bard Warchanter... 18 8 14 8 10 14 (or so) and eat as many +2 tomes as you can get.

Go 2 hand weapon user... all 3 feats... toughness... slash or blunt spec and then craft gs great axe or maul...and power attack... last feat extend?

With those stats you'll have haggle, umd, perform, jump and balance for sure.

HOrc and bard enhancements are combat (horc damage, pa, 2h effects) , strength/chr and haggle (get all 4 ranks) focused...

You're dps will be excellent.. your songs will improve everything and your aoe's/buffs wil rwk. Never forget rage spell and displacement.

With this build you should reach at least a 65 haggle (gear etc), your cc will be solid (especially with mindfog)... and you'll hit as hard as any tank out there (except a barb).. with the ability to get hit less and self heal.

My bard is on her 2nd life and I am very happy with her dps.

p.s. Do not multi-class... your endgame will suffer.

You know, I hadn't thought of that. She's drow on her first life, and while I was satisfied with her song and spell abilities, I didn't like her damage, and her hit points were a little lacking. I have con 6, greater false life, toughness, and the green steel +45 exceptional hit points, as well as the +2 con shrine from my ship, and I still felt gimp. ._. I guess with the horc race, I could mitigate that some more. Thank you for the response.

-Jes.

[Westerner]

Check out the Diva's Bard Love Guide.

Contains lots of good WC builds.

[Kaeldur]

In my opinion if you want to get DPS on a warchanter you should be looking at TWF, since you'll get roughly "double worth" on your songs.

[LVSammy]

So, i have had this discussion with many ppl and can usually get them to agree with me by the end. It is my opinion that the highest dps bard u can make is a pure 20 warchanter.

Now, i have had many ppl disagree and give examples of all the builds previouslt posted here. It is, however based on what ur focus is. Imo, the reason to make a bard is for raids primarily. With that in mind, in a raid of 12 ppl, i can usually count on 8-10 ppl actually swinging a stick and just less than half of those being twf, so i think that +1 dmg per bard song is equivelant to 12.2(thfs-5*1=5, twf-4*1.8=7.2) dmg per hit far,more than any splash will give u.

Now, with this, half-orc is the obvious option, going thf with an esos. Take feats pa, wf, imp. Crit, tough, max, ext, and quicken. Starting stats of max str, enough cha to hit 16 endgame w/o an item (inc capstone for an addition +2 and u start with 10-12), and the rest into con.
Now, on top of being the most dps, this is also the most versatile build having full extended rage/haste, quicken/maxd heals, and a quickened ottos. Ur still able to max perform umd and haggle and one other.

And just for a reference for dps, my bard hits for 80s+, crits for 300+, has 507 hp, heals himself with only emp healing atm, til i get torc for about 160 with cure crit, has a 22 spell pen check w/ no item, and is also probably my most fun toon to play atm.

[testing1234]

So, i have had this discussion with many ppl and can usually get them to agree with me by the end. It is my opinion that the highest dps bard u can make is a pure 20 warchanter.

Now, i have had many ppl disagree and give examples of all the builds previouslt posted here. It is, however based on what ur focus is. Imo, the reason to make a bard is for raids primarily. With that in mind, in a raid of 12 ppl, i can usually count on 8-10 ppl actually swinging a stick and just less than half of those being twf, so i think that +1 dmg per bard song is equivelant to 12.2(thfs-5*1=5, twf-4*1.8=7.2) dmg per hit far,more than any splash will give u.

Now, with this, half-orc is the obvious option, going thf with an esos. Take feats pa, wf, imp. Crit, tough, max, ext, and quicken. Starting stats of max str, enough cha to hit 16 endgame w/o an item (inc capstone for an addition +2 and u start with 10-12), and the rest into con.
Now, on top of being the most dps, this is also the most versatile build having full extended rage/haste, quicken/maxd heals, and a quickened ottos. Ur still able to max perform umd and haggle and one other.

And just for a reference for dps, my bard hits for 80s+, crits for 300+, has 507 hp, heals himself with only emp healing atm, til i get torc for about 160 with cure crit, has a 22 spell pen check w/ no item, and is also probably my most fun toon to play atm.

"Now, on top of being the most dps"

-this is not the most dps, without taking the three feats of THF its obvious not the highest dps why say it is it only weakens ur case.

"this is also the most versatile build having full extended rage/haste, quicken/maxd heals, and a quickened ottos"

-this is not the most versatile bard build, saying its the most "versatile" pure bard is very close to true but even then it comes down to what you consider worth how much. there is no real general accepted standard on this word in DDO and again i dislike your exaggerations.
as i see it this build could try to fit in lots of small things more without sacrificing anything major,
why not have intimidate also
why not multiclass what makes the capstone so good for a melee bard +1bard/2spell pene song is nice but its hardly versatility
if multi 2 lvls or more lots of other things it could fit in


perfectly understandable you want to recommend a build your very happy with but no need to exaggerate
all this being said a pure 20 is basically never a bad choice

[Drallac]

I use a 16/2/2 dwarf warchanter build which is as follows:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 436
Spell Points: 445 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         20                    25
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20


Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting

Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

Now the first thing that will strike most people is next to no charisma, this is for 2 reasons, getting a DC/spell pen high enough for Combat casting reduces the dps of the build, granted at the loss of SP. Secondly by maximising str/con you increase your value as a dps build.

Again, feat choice was something i struggled with, currently im using 3 toughness feats, GTHF doesnt seem worth it, and the only other possibilities is maybe power critical? As it stands at level 20 my no Tr'd bardbarian is walking around with 37 str, 31 con and 16 cha, 581 hp and 820 sp. The SP is just enough to GH/blur a raid and chuck a rage down too, there is an arguement that a bard should be able to fully buff a raid/party however i disagree the most important bard buff is the songs, and im happy to chuck down a GH/blur for a sorc/wizzie but I've never had an issue in any raid, and even if i do, just chug an elixir.

This build is really gear orientated (currently using a GS hp and sp item, encrusted ring+belt set, antique GA/min2 ga) but hits for around 70-90 and crits for 210-270, which is pretty good for a support class

[LVSammy]

-this is not the most dps, without taking the three feats of THF its obvious not the highest dps why say it is it only weakens ur case.


-this is not the most versatile bard build, saying its the most "versatile" pure bard is very close to true but even then it comes down to what you consider worth how much. there is no real general accepted standard on this word in DDO and again i dislike your exaggerations.
as i see it this build could try to fit in lots of small things more without sacrificing anything major,
why not have intimidate also
why not multiclass what makes the capstone so good for a melee bard +1bard/2spell pene song is nice but its hardly versatility
if multi 2 lvls or more lots of other things it could fit in


perfectly understandable you want to recommend a build your very happy with but no need to exaggerate
all this being said a pure 20 is basically never a bad choice

Well, i do apologize for the slight exaggeration, but with twitching the need for thf feats for max dps is minimalized. Also, i was in a little bit of a rush as i read and responded to this while on my lunch from work. There were many points i would have liked to get to, but sadly, i did not. The reason no intim, is for the lack of skill points, would be my next choice however if i had more. The 20 bard is not for the.capstone, thats just a bonus. Lvl 20 is for the final tier of song damage (and as a bonus atk as well). My point is that that 1 extra dmg on song adds more dps to a raid .group than any multiclass could do. Also, my number, 12.2, was ofc an estimate, tho i believe a fair one in its generation, i forgot to account for crits, and assuming no fort, its about an extra 3 or more dmg, depending on the partys gear/builds. And for the versatility, i stick by that one as it is able to cc, heal, raid buff, and do significant dps. The only thing more "versitile" some would say to be rogue abilities, however, as i do not see having those abilities in any way necessary for end game content, i dont count it. That is just my opinion, so to me he is the most versatile, and in fact he is nearly the highest dps (where only sacrificing healing, and casting abilities would change it). Hope this clears it up a little, and just glad i could help.

[Hayday]

Jes,
What +3/+4 tomes do you have available?
This is an important piece of information when planning a TR.

Whatever build you decide on, make sure you have Maximize and Concentration. I made the feat swap on my main a couple weeks ago and am loving it. Having another member of the party who can quickly throw a cure for 120+ without having to switch to scrolls and UMD gear helps tremendously in sticky situations.

I'm thinking 15/3/2 brd/rog/ftr h-orc would be a good choice for you.

edit: posted before i checked your current gear setup...pure bard might be better

[Astars]

If you got a grind bone in you, go for max cha bard and grab epic dynastic falcatas or elyd edges (elyd edges are easier, but got str as damage modifier). Am on my way there with my own 18/2 bard/rog spellsinger.
Two challenges:
1. grinding the epics (flacata shards are hellish to obtain)
2. managing to cap the build with low str and next to no dps till you cap
Alternative, if you want to go that way: level as str based wc and lr to cha spellsinger or wc

Cheers

Ast