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  1. #21
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muffinlad View Post
    You are a totally new person, you have access to things that you could carry away...but you can't carry away the things you read, or the reputation of the dead person you got all of your stuff from.

    Your suggestion would be less "True Reincarnation" and more "SuperSayanPowerUp".

    Basically, keep all of your tomes, re-arange your stats, get+2 more stats...and get a pointly blonde hair cut and access to different feats (but you need to re-level and earn more exp).

    I suppose as a different option, this would not be bad, but it would have to come at a higher cost.

    Regs,

    muffinvegita
    This is an idea.

    Normal TR, loose tomes.

    Super TR, keep tomes, need twice as much XP to level.

  2. #22
    Community Member Impatiens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    But +2 tomes should not be kept.
    Any particular reason why? This post was definitely made with +3 and +4 tomes in mind since they are hard won raid loot. I couldn't care less about +2s, but I wouldn't complain if +2s were kept when TRing too.

  3. #23
    Hero
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    Turbine will sell +3 and +4 tomes in the DDO Store before this happens.
    Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi, Nichevo-1 | 75 million Reaper XP

  4. #24
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Tomes are consumable magic, meaning once they are used they are gone, kind of like scrolls.
    This a classic example of game design requirements (tomes should only be used by one character, and not be passed around) being justified by invented lore.

    With DDO already having a mechanism to satisfy that requirement for Raid loot tomes, BtC, there's no reason that bit of lore can't be changed to justify a better game design.

  5. #25
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernal42 View Post
    Also, FWIW, Turbine could easily turn it into a plat sink by charging pp (1 mil for a +4? Sure!) for this.
    What is this plat you speak of? How many dousing rods to I have to sell to obtain one of these +4 tomes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  6. #26
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    it makes sense to me that I can put things away in a bank vault to get after I reincarnate. However if I am level 1 again with no xp then I would not have any knowledge of tomes read (of course by that logic how would I know where to find the bank that has all my stuff? :P)


    It would be nice to keep the tomes read.
    Kill'em all and let their favorite deity sort'em out
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  7. #27
    Community Member Impatiens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragavon View Post
    This is an idea.

    Normal TR, loose tomes.

    Super TR, keep tomes, need twice as much XP to level.
    What if it's a second TR? Is it even possible to get twice as much XP? I haven't really looked at total possible XP numbers and a lot of content has been added since TRing was first introduced, so maybe it is, but that seems like a stretch.

  8. #28
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    This a classic example of game design requirements (tomes should only be used by one character, and not be passed around) being justified by invented lore.

    With DDO already having a mechanism to satisfy that requirement for Raid loot tomes, BtC, there's no reason that bit of lore can't be changed to justify a better game design.
    Better game design by the players opinion, yes, however I can give you one reason why that bit of lore cant be changed if I was running a for profit business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  9. #29
    Community Member Unreliable's Avatar
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    My personal list of reasons of why I think this has not been implemented...

    -Turbine would loose money selling +1 and +2 tomes in the DDO store.

    That is all. Thank you.

  10. #30
    Community Member Impatiens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Better game design by the players opinion, yes, however I can give you one reason why that bit of lore cant be changed if I was running a for profit business.
    Except if they made this change Turbine would make more money because more people would be buying points to TR characters that they never would have considered TRing before.

  11. #31
    Community Member jwdaniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorbert View Post
    I think people are also overlooking the fact that it's a Tome... a book. Apparently after we read these self help books we throw them on the fire or something. Instead of sitting them on a shelf somewhere in our private libraries.

    If I was leaving all of my belongings to a future me, I think I'd also give myself my copy of The Crystal Shard. I think the new me would like to read about how Drizzt and Wulfgar became friends.
    In Pen and Paper D&D, stat tomes always disappear when read. They don't hang around at the local library.

    Tomes in PnP can only be used once, by the character that reads them. True Reincarnation makes you someone else, therefore you lose the benefits of the tome that your other previous self read.

    It's funny that people can understand the lore of magic making it possible to fly, move really fast and light things on fire but the concept of a single use consumable magic item that can change your physical/mental makeup only working once and once only can't possibly be explained away by lore...

    EDIT: Conceptually, lesser and greater reincarnation work differently because they're an in-game lore way to justify a respec of your current character, not a re-do with a completely different self.


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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Impatiens View Post
    With that logic we shouldn't get to keep any of our items either though, but I don't think many people would go for that.
    I don't under stand this.

    Losing understanding gained from a book when you TR I get.

    Losing gear?

    Gear is just stuff. Like an inheritance. It can be passed down a lot easer then understanding...

  13. #33
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    You know, I came in here to grumpily say, "No, that's overpowered/unnecessary/etc.".

    But then this convinced me otherwise, at least for bound raid-loot/event-reward +3 or +4 tomes:
    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    Tomes are in principal no different than any other Raid loot. There's no good reason to treat them differently.
    No one's saying that it's unbalanced to keep raid and BTC equipment when TRing, and the same arguments apply equally well to tomes.

    And I think this is the right (and easiest) implementation:

    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    And I still think the easy answer is that a bound to character tome +3/+4 should not be deleted when it is read. Can't be passed on to anyone but a future TR for the same toon anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

  14. #34
    Community Member Impatiens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiusbot View Post
    I don't under stand this.

    Losing understanding gained from a book when you TR I get.

    Losing gear?

    Gear is just stuff. Like an inheritance. It can be passed down a lot easer then understanding...
    Tomes are just books. It doesn't make sense that they disappear when you read them either. And there is no reason that we couldn't write down the knowledge we had gained to pass on to future people.

  15. #35
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What is this plat you speak of? How many dousing rods to I have to sell to obtain one of these +4 tomes?
    To be clear, kernal was onal suggesting a way to keep already earned tomes for plat. Tomes should not be purchasable outright for mere plat.

    And this would be a great way to mitigate the inflation from the event in a fair way, while staving off the inevitable inflation the game has had inherently.

  16. #36

    Default If I have said it once I have said many times.

    Ask for a way to scribe a tome. As part of the TR experience or as a separate thing.

    You lose the bonus and gain a tome.

  17. #37
    Community Member jwdaniels's Avatar
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    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tom..._and_Influence

    Just an example of how they work in 3.5 PnP.


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  18. #38
    Community Member mws2970's Avatar
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    So if we get to keep our tomes, as a human (for example), I would start at 12 base stats (assuming I ate +4 in all stats) and then get to be a 36 point build (assuming double TR or more) and add +2 to all stats for completionist. I like it, but it won't ever happen because this is just a bit too over powered.

    *Edit......This assumes the tomes are applied during the beginning build and not at the appropriate level.
    Last edited by mws2970; 03-08-2011 at 03:17 PM.
    Main: Castagir (completionist), officer of the Fighting Clowns of Sarlona. Alts: Modric, Modrich, Kristna and others.

  19. #39
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impatiens View Post
    Except if they made this change Turbine would make more money because more people would be buying points to TR characters that they never would have considered TRing before.
    If they have demographic information to support this they might move on it. I wonder what the dollars comparison would be for people buying +2 tomes plus people buying TRs as it is now -vs- people buying tome sets in the store (less) plus people buying TRs (more) if this proposal saw the light of day.

    If I was in the decision making chair for this you would have to speak pretty good numbers-ese to convince me. I am banking on the assumption that +2 store tomes sell well. If this is the case, convincing someone in the decision making process to create a situation that takes away from already good money making mechanics for the possability to make it back and then some on something else would be a hard sell. Those projections better look stellar, heh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  20. #40
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    To be clear, kernal was onal suggesting a way to keep already earned tomes for plat. Tomes should not be purchasable outright for mere plat.

    And this would be a great way to mitigate the inflation from the event in a fair way, while staving off the inevitable inflation the game has had inherently.
    Ok so how many rods do I have to sell to re-create the tome I already used on myself before I reincarnate?

    While we are being clear, there will always be another cash cow. In game money mechanics are trivial. Turbine, being a for profit business, weighs more in on RL money mechanics to make these types of decisions. As a player you could likely convince me to go along with this. Looking at it through the business perspective, the numbers would tell the story. If they could make more selling TRs than they do selling +2 tomes now, you might see this in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

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