Keep Tomes when TRing

[Impatiens]

There's not much to say to explain this suggestion, but I would love it if tomes were kept when TRing. We keep all our gear, we keep tomes if we lesser or greater reincarnate, why not keep tomes when true reincarnating? I am planning on TRing my current character. I just pulled a +4 tome. Obviously I'm not using it right away since I know I'm going to TR, but I would like to use it in her next life. However, once I do that it means I'll pretty much never think about TRing her again since I would lose that +4 tome and we all know that +4s are not easy to come by. However, if I knew I would not lose that tome when TRing again I would definitely consider it. I have a friend in a similar situation. I'm pretty sure that if we kept tomes when TRing more people would do it and if more people are TRing turbine will be making more money on points. I really can't think of any reason why this shouldn't be implemented, but if anyone has any thoughts on the matter, let's hear them!

Edit: This thread has received a lot more attention than I expected! Based on a lot of the discussion in the thread I would propose that this only apply to +3 and +4 tomes that are Character or Account bound. These are raid loot items and should not be lost. From a lore perspective since they are bound to your character you should retain the knowledge you gained from them. I think the easiest way to do this would be to simply have a tome placed in your reincarnation cache to use again at the proper level. I definitely do not think that people who have used +4 tomes in a previous life should suddenly have those stats at level 1 when they TR. If we were simply given a new +3 or +4 tome to use at the proper level when we reincarnated there would still be a market for the +2s to be used earlier on. I know, for instance, if I had a +4 int tome waiting in my reincarnation cache I would still use a +2 int tome at 7 in order to make use of the extra skill points early on.

[ThePurePanda]

you know i have never heard this suggested before 0.0 /sarcasm

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Because unlike lesser and greater resses, you are destroyed and reborn. You are for all intensive purposes a new being. I may not like it either but I agree completely with the decision to not keep your tomes that have been already used.

[Deamus]

/signed.

Not keeping tomes keeps alot of people of TRing. As for an explanation of why we keep them for the RP poin to view im 100% that they can find a reasonable excuse for that.
Tring means more money for turbine after all.......

[DrakmireTS]

I don't play PnP to know, but are there specific rules in place for reincarnation in D&D? Or was it a mechanic implemented specifically for DDO? Because if it's the latter, a storyline reason isn't really that strong considering we play in a world that breaks immersion (necessarily) *constantly*.

[Quarterling]

This has been suggested before, and has generally received negative views.

[dkyle]

/signed, for Raid-loot +3/+4 tomes

We shouldn't have to choose between wasting dozens of completions worth of Raids, and exercising the TR option. Especially as new classes and races come out.

Tomes are in principal no different than any other Raid loot. There's no good reason to treat them differently.

I'd also like to see some post-20 character leveling options (not epic levels, necessarily, but something other than items) that are kept through TR, but just suppressed until reaching 20 again.

A game where we can work on gearing out and improving our level 20s, without fear of losing that effort (other than the XP to get to 20) if we decide to TR them, would be a great thing.

Turbine long ago removed permanent damage from bound items, to prevent Raid loot destruction. That was a good thing. The same logic should apply to tomes.

I don't play PnP to know, but are there specific rules in place for reincarnation in D&D? Or was it a mechanic implemented specifically for DDO? Because if it's the latter, a storyline reason isn't really that strong considering we play in a world that breaks immersion (necessarily) *constantly*.

The closest precedent, the Reincarnation spell, does in fact preserve applied tomes.

Not that it should matter. DDO's Reincarnation is radically different from anything in PnP, and not destroying hard-won Raid loot is simply a good idea. Precedent from 3.5 is unnecessary.

[muffinlad]

You are a totally new person, you have access to things that you could carry away...but you can't carry away the things you read, or the reputation of the dead person you got all of your stuff from.

Your suggestion would be less "True Reincarnation" and more "SuperSayanPowerUp".

Basically, keep all of your tomes, re-arange your stats, get+2 more stats...and get a pointly blonde hair cut and access to different feats (but you need to re-level and earn more exp).

I suppose as a different option, this would not be bad, but it would have to come at a higher cost.

Regs,

muffinvegita

[flynnjsw]

I don't play PnP to know, but are there specific rules in place for reincarnation in D&D? Or was it a mechanic implemented specifically for DDO? Because if it's the latter, a storyline reason isn't really that strong considering we play in a world that breaks immersion (necessarily) *constantly*.

Not with the same mechanics that DDO has. Basically, reincarnating in PnP is just a cheaper, more dangerous way to be ressurected.

[Impatiens]

Because unlike lesser and greater resses, you are destroyed and reborn. You are for all intensive purposes a new being. I may not like it either but I agree completely with the decision to not keep your tomes that have been already used.

With that logic we shouldn't get to keep any of our items either though, but I don't think many people would go for that.

[Impatiens]

Tring means more money for turbine after all.......

This is my main point. Sure, there are plenty of RP reasons why tomes should not be kept, but unless I somehow pull the same +4 tome again and save it for another life there is no way I'm TRing and giving up that tome I just got.

You are a totally new person, you have access to things that you could carry away...but you can't carry away the things you read, or the reputation of the dead person you got all of your stuff from.

When we TR we could just have the tome put into our reincarnation bank again so we'd have to "read" it again to gain the knowledge from it if that's really the issue here. It really doesn't make sense that a book would get destroyed when it was read either so there is really no reason that that book should not be included with all the stuff we got from that dead person.

It's one thing to have to get +2 tomes again. That's not really an issue as they are very easy to come by. But +3 and +4 tomes are hard won raid loot. Raid loot should not be destroyed when we TR whether it has been used or not in our past life.

[Alexandryte]

/signed many times over

You initially read tomes to learn some secret on how to be more charismatic, stronger, tougher, agile, intelligent or wise.

>Why would your previous self not record the finding during their own life?


Not to mention it essentially segregates the community as things currently stand, design wise. Those with long time characters will not TR because of the rarity of raid tomes. Those who TR will not consume tomes while still considering a following life. Anyone who gets Completionist now will be perpetually screwed over until Turbine can make up its mind on Druids or other additional classes. (Eat tomes on the gamble of Turbine wont introduce Druids for a long time, Don't eat tomes on the prospect that Druids may be imminent, Be screwed if another class shows up after you decide)

They are currently two disjunct systems when they do not need to be.



Both from a design perspective and a lorelol* perspective it would be more advantageous to allow some means to carry over the knowledge gained from any tomes consumed than to separate their paying community.



*Any time lore or "tabletop rules" get in the way of something that is practical, it is important to remember that DDO =/= DnD. Certain concessions need to be made for any translation. For instance, I don't see people clamoring for an experience penalty on death, permanent reduction to Con for each death or permanent negative levels. Whys that? They don't translate well into a virtual game-space where certain elements are well beyond player or GM control or just don't fit.

[kernal42]

/Signed, for the following reasons:

Tomes are in principal no different than any other Raid loot. There's no good reason to treat them differently.

With that logic we shouldn't get to keep any of our items either though, but I don't think many people would go for that.

[TPICKRELL]

/signed

And I still think the easy answer is that a bound to character tome +3/+4 should not be deleted when it is read. Can't be passed on to anyone but a future TR for the same toon anyway.

[kernal42]

It's one thing to have to get +2 tomes again. That's not really an issue as they are very easy to come by. But +3 and +4 tomes are hard won raid loot. Raid loot should not be destroyed when we TR whether it has been used or not in our past life.

IMO, this should apply to all bound tomes.

Raid loot (+2 to +4)? Yes
Festival turn-in (+4)? No
Favor Reward (+2)? Sure

Also, FWIW, Turbine could easily turn it into a plat sink by charging pp (1 mil for a +4? Sure!) for this.

-Kernal

[Gnorbert]

I think people are also overlooking the fact that it's a Tome... a book. Apparently after we read these self help books we throw them on the fire or something. Instead of sitting them on a shelf somewhere in our private libraries.

If I was leaving all of my belongings to a future me, I think I'd also give myself my copy of The Crystal Shard. I think the new me would like to read about how Drizzt and Wulfgar became friends.

[kernal42]

/signed

And I still think the easy answer is that a bound to character tome +3/+4 should not be deleted when it is read. Can't be passed on to anyone but a future TR for the same toon anyway.

Yes, although it would be nice (though certainly not necessary) if the change were made in a retroactive manner.

[Chai]

I think people are also overlooking the fact that it's a Tome... a book. Apparently after we read these self help books we throw them on the fire or something. Instead of sitting them on a shelf somewhere in our private libraries.

If I was leaving all of my belongings to a future me, I think I'd also give myself my copy of The Crystal Shard. I think the new me would like to read about how Drizzt and Wulfgar became friends.

Tomes are consumable magic, meaning once they are used they are gone, kind of like scrolls.

/signed, for Raid-loot +3/+4 tomes

We shouldn't have to choose between wasting dozens of completions worth of Raids, and exercising the TR option. Especially as new classes and races come out. .

Theres no waste in raid completions, the loot is still there.

Tomes are in principal no different than any other Raid loot. There's no good reason to treat them differently.

Tomes are consumable magic, meaning once they are used they are gone, kind of like scrolls.

Turbine long ago removed permanent damage from bound items, to prevent Raid loot destruction. That was a good thing. The same logic should apply to tomes.

Apples on the right, oranges on the left.

The closest precedent, the Reincarnation spell, does in fact preserve applied tomes.

Ther closest precident is a scroll, which is a consumable one time use macig item.

Not that it should matter. DDO's Reincarnation is radically different from anything in PnP, and not destroying hard-won Raid loot is simply a good idea. Precedent from 3.5 is unnecessary.

How about precident from the for profit business industry regarding micro transactions, heh. This is the REAL reason why it likely wont happen.

[Impatiens]

/signed

And I still think the easy answer is that a bound to character tome +3/+4 should not be deleted when it is read. Can't be passed on to anyone but a future TR for the same toon anyway.

This would be fine...though then I'd need to find room for them! It seems like the simplest solution though for sure. Though I would like to see it be retroactive, so if people had already used a +4 tome they would get it back to use in future lives.

[protokon]

I really wouldn't mind keeping the +4 tomes I've consumed in the event I do decide to reincarnate those few toons who have consumed them.

But +2 tomes should not be kept.