1 cleric level will not help you!

[Wizzly_Bear]

It probably would have been a good idea to read through the other posts before basically re-posting information that was already proven incorrect.

Nope. See about a dozen or so posters who explain why this statement is simply incorrect.

No. This was explained very clearly and very well by the posters above that potions are situational and in terms of cost, speed, ability to two-fist-heal, etc wands are extremely useful at all levels.

Braegan is speaking from the strictly powerfamer perspective, and is indeed correct. For my playstyle I agree 100%. However, I remember being new once and taking cleric for wands and dv's. While this can be very useful for beginners, it's also "full of fail" for the experienced player.

[Postumus]

It was nice supprice to get mana from barbarian with 1lv cleric splash .

I think I can understand any crazy multiclassing except one:
caster (wizard/sorc) + barbarian.

Hello, you can't cast while in rage, guys!

If you were a WF barbarian a level of wiz/sor might make sense since it would open up repair/reconstruct wands.

[Postumus]

Braegan is speaking from the strictly powerfamer perspective, and is indeed correct.
...

While this can be very useful for beginners, it's also "full of fail" for the experienced player.

"Powergamer" perspective, huh? OK.


I see the potential usefulness of splashes, including one level of cleric; and numerous other posters have demonstrated at length why so I see no need to rehash their compelling and cogent arguments.


If some players are too short-sighted, or creatively challenged to be able to think outside the cookie cutter molds they are accustomed too, that is their loss.

[Entelech]

"Wizard + Sorc" and "FvS + Cleric" are the only truly worthless multiclass combos.

[Entelech]

Splashing 1 level of cleric on a wizard in order to be able to use inflict wands is A TERRIBLE IDEA! Don't even suggest that it is a good idea. You give up the wizard capstone, so DC and spell pen, in order to get some mediocre extra healing that isn't even needed with the aura, blast, and inflict pots from collectibles. There is no good point to splashing on a wizard. Period.

Given that I have a Pale Master at cap, and another Pale Master multiclass battlemage I am re-leveling after a TR, I'm well aware of the issues.

Actually, Inflict wands still have some marginal utility for a Pale Master in that they allow you to top off between fights while conserving spell points. Also, they're effectively free, since I tend to get far more of them than I will ever use.

But you still get generic healing wand access for pre-undead use, you still get armor and shield proficiency, you still get a nice selection of weapons, and so forth. And you get Diplomacy in class.

If you're going to splash, and you're a Wizard, Cleric is arguably a better choice than, say, Paladin or Bard.

If you're going to argue that getting the capstone is better than any sort of splash at all, that's a separate debate. And clearly opinions on the matter vary widely, if a sampling of server population is to be believed.

[Alabore]

While this can be very useful for beginners, it's also "full of fail" for the experienced player.

I am not sure about the whole "experienced" part.
I've spent some quality time with "experienced" players lecturing me on how weak my characters were, from inside my backpack...

...

Given the chance to rebuild some of my earlier chars, I would likely tweak them a bit.
I am not sure about half elven dilettante feats though.
I would rather player a rog2/wiz9/clr9 than touch any of the newer races.
I thought I had warmed a bit to half elves, but after buying them I still cannot bear myself to go past creation screens.

[Braegan]

It probably would have been a good idea to read through the other posts before basically re-posting information that was already proven incorrect.

Actually I did. A good number agree with me as well, so it's not like I am the only one on my own little soapbox. I also completely refute that it was proven incorrect, rather just some other vocal folks put their two cents in.


Nope. See about a dozen or so posters who explain why this statement is simply incorrect.


I stated potions are better then wands at low level healing. Why? Potion of Cure Serious = ML 1, Wand of Cure Serious = ML 5. At low levels potions are greater then wands.


No. This was explained very clearly and very well by the posters above that potions are situational and in terms of cost, speed, ability to two-fist-heal, etc wands are extremely useful at all levels.

I still stand by my statement (powergamer, elitist, w/e). When you splash you gain somethings by sacrificing others. The amount of gain from a melee taking 1 level of a healing class is shadowed by it's sacrifices.

[Braegan]

If some players are too short-sighted, or creatively challenged to be able to think outside the cookie cutter molds they are accustomed too, that is their loss.

No you are wrong here. The Fact is most of us old timers have done those builds already. We know they work to a point, and fail at a certain point. It is indeed much more the loss of newer folk that don't listen to vets that recommend otherwise because we have already been there, done that and bought the tee-shirt.

But then again feel free to post and go on about things and learn now in 2011 what I (and many others) learned in 2006.

[Wizzly_Bear]

No you are wrong here. The Fact is most of us old timers have done those builds already. We know they work to a point, and fail at a certain point. It is indeed much more the loss of newer folk that don't listen to vets that recommend otherwise because we have already been there, done that and bought the tee-shirt.

But then again feel free to post and go on about things and learn now in 2011 what I (and many others) learned in 2006.

This. If we cannot learn from the mistakes of the past, then we are doomed to repeat them.

[thegreatneil]

No you are wrong here. The Fact is most of us old timers have done those builds already. We know they work to a point, and fail at a certain point. It is indeed much more the loss of newer folk that don't listen to vets that recommend otherwise because we have already been there, done that and bought the tee-shirt.

But then again feel free to post and go on about things and learn now in 2011 what I (and many others) learned in 2006.

I lol'ed.

[Angelus_dead]

Actually, Inflict wands still have some marginal utility for a Pale Master in that they allow you to top off between fights while conserving spell points. Also, they're effectively free, since I tend to get far more of them than I will ever use.

1. Pale Masters automatically top-off between battles without doing anything, thanks to the green bubble.
2. Wizards can UMD an Inflict wand anyway, thanks to high intelligence.

[JOTMON]

Problem with hirelings is, they only recently started curing debuffs, such as curse, poisoning and so on.
Before, they were only good for raw healing - and some cleric splashes date back to earlier times.

I'm not trying to defend what could be a less than desirable option - but keep in mind not every player is equally committed to keeping their character up to date to the point of reincarnating or rerolling them.

I, for one, am not.
Will that marginalise me and my characters?

* shrug *

The way I look at it 1-2 splashes of anything doesnt really break any build. Almost every one of my builds is a splash of of some sort. Each offers benefits of some sort. I would not reject a toon with any unsual splashes unless it was something like wiz10/sorc10 ( yes I have seen it, and no I still don't get why someone would do it).

Pretty much anything else offers something to a build.

Point here is that 1 cleric splash is a weak compared to other classes.
It seems appealing initially, but long term loses more than it gains.

Will it break a build, no.

Will it get you rejected from groups.. maybe initially, but you will come across those that will reject people for whatever reason.

Proving yourself within the game will have people inviting you to join future groups or not.

The great thing about this game is the ability to be create all types if variations if you so choose.

[Noctus]

The point about jump animations is this, if you are jumping up and down in one place you might as well be standing still. It means that you are ignoring the reason to move -- to escape combat/danger. And, you cannot be moving and drink potions without the animation stopping. Jump simply overrides the stop by taking you to the end point of the jump anyways.

The point about drinking while jumping vs using wands while running is this -- wand use does not stop you from running. Not everyone is adept at jumping. But, anyone can hit the "R" key and go into autorun.

This really shows the level of game knowledge you have ... or rather not have.


You can indeed drink a potion while staying in motion. Through using Jump.



P.S.
And you are fighting the wrong battle. According to your posts you argue that everyone says that the 1 cleric splash has no advantages. - That is clearly not the case.

What the others are sayig is that the small advantages of the splash get massively dwarfed by the disadvatages of missing out on what the level in another class would have given you instead + the advanteges get even less and less usefull the higher your total character level gets.
---> 1 Cleric is a bad splash. Ever.

[Therigar]

Splashing 1 level of cleric on a wizard in order to be able to use inflict wands is A TERRIBLE IDEA! Don't even suggest that it is a good idea. You give up the wizard capstone, so DC and spell pen, in order to get some mediocre extra healing that isn't even needed with the aura, blast, and inflict pots from collectibles. There is no good point to splashing on a wizard. Period.

Ah.

Well, that sort of depends on how long you plan to stay at L20.

There are many different types of players playing DDO. Among them there are those who get to L20 and stay there for an extended length of time. For them you are right, splashing cleric for access to cause wounds is a really bad idea.

Another type of player is the one that gets to L20 and immediately TRs. Maybe they are working on completionist or maybe they just don't see much point in epic questing or maybe they have other reasons. It doesn't matter. For this player capstone enhancements are never important because they aren't sticking around at L20 anyways.

So, what could be a great idea for one player can easily be a horrible idea for another.

The same goes for almost any build advice that goes on. People should look past their own preferences and play styles and try to think about what others are maybe doing.

Cleric x/wizard x makes sense, good sense for some players.

[Therigar]

1. Pale Masters automatically top-off between battles without doing anything, thanks to the green bubble.
2. Wizards can UMD an Inflict wand anyway, thanks to high intelligence.

UMD is a CHA skill but I think you mean that the high INT leaves skill points for UMD.

Regardless, this is probably the least likely splash and over debating it detracts from the rest of the discussion.

[jwdaniels]

I disagree with the OP strongly. 1 level of Cleric is an excellent idea for any character that is planning on taking 19 more of them, and in the hands of experienced character builders even as few as 16 more. Less than that is, except in a very few odd circumstances, a poor idea at best.

[Therigar]

And you are fighting the wrong battle. According to your posts you argue that everyone says that the 1 cleric splash has no advantages. - That is clearly not the case.

What the others are sayig is that the small advantages of the splash get massively dwarfed by the disadvatages of missing out on what the level in another class would have given you instead + the advanteges get even less and less usefull the higher your total character level gets.

I see most L1 cleric splashes on melee characters. I equate it to L1 wizard splashes on warforged.

I have used these splashes in order to simplify leveling thru L12-14.

On melee characters it is typical that INT is a complete dump stat. This means there are no skill points available for UMD. Take your typical half-orc fighter or barbarian. The fighter cannot even focus on 2 skills as he'll have only 1 skill point every level. What's he do -- intimidate, jump, spot? The barbarian at least gets two choices.

So, the UMD advice in the original post doesn't apply at all.

Having access to some minor self buffs before you've acquired clickies and the full range of clerical wands for things like healing, resists, etc. is very attractive. Smart even. Especially for a new player working their first character.

Now, the warforged wizard splash is a bit better because the utility of the arcane spells is slightly higher. But new players don't usually have warforged as a race choice, especially F2P players.

At around L12 or so a player might have accumulated enough gear that the splash isn't giving much value. Maybe class based attributes are kicking in or the player has fallen in with a relatively static group of players. Maybe they have enough money built up to afford hirelings.

Typically I look to LR +1 at around that time because I've gotten about as much mileage out of the splash as I can get. But, I've been playing nearly from launch and have 20+ characters in various stages of development on just my primary server.

A newer player might find the benefits of the splash continuing. Moreso if the capstone isn't really all that great or if they plan an immediate TR on hitting L20.

If the splash is only for self healing then paladin or ranger is a better choice. If it is for the additional buffs (nightshield, protection from evil) then cleric is better. And, +2 on will saves for fleshy melee characters isn't so bad either -- something you are not getting with the ranger or paladin splashes.

[muffinlad]

I have played, and tried out a huge number of multi-classes. 14/6 FvS-Rng (Tempest Soul)...check. Clonk (18/2) Morc (18 Sorc/2 Monk), Arcane Trapsmith (18/2)...and many others...some of them work well, some don't work as well.

Today, as the game stands, you have better options than taking one level of Cleric. No, you should not reroll if you have done it (thats what getting to 20 and TRing is for...). As mentioned Helf dilies give you some options, if you want to cross class later, playing a 18 fighter/2 rogue with UMD, or any of the other build options out there...but you should know that a 1/cleric or 1/Fvs is not optimal.

It should not stop you from getting parties (except from the most picky), and your personal playing style will show your worth even more than your build.

Good luck and good loots,

muffinphilo

[Alabore]

Point here is that 1 cleric splash is a weak compared to other classes.
It seems appealing initially, but long term loses more than it gains.

I would tend to agree - when I first built that character, my first character ever, I wasn't sure what DDO was like, and how long I would have stuck along.

I was still scarred by other MMOs, where beginning areas just feel like they never end ever.
I kind of expected my character would spend months chasing trogs, forever stuck at level 2.

I levelled very slowly, carefully tackling quests at level, waiting for a suitable PUG, sometimes alting between chars and servers, when I couldn't find a group for a given quest.
It took me ages just to leave harbour area.

Cleric lost its appeal for raw healing about the very second I hit char level 3.
I kept that character because I harboured - and still harbour - the romantic notion that these characters are more than just a collection of stats and gear.
I haven't deleted any of them, not even the seriously broken ones.
I see it as a challenge, see how far they can go, with skill, proper gear and some cunning respeccing of feats and enhancements.

The clr1/ftr12 played better, after I respecced it from stalwart defender to greataxe kensei.

Took me a while to relearn how to play DnD.
DDO is mostly static - barring big updates and nerfs, contents tend to stay the same.
Once you find out what works, you tend to gravitate towards certain builds.
When you first join, you have to make do, and learn on the go.

In a sense, the cleric level for that character has become a bit of an internal role-play hook plot, for me.