1 cleric level will not help you!

[Yellfor]

I have been seeing a lot of builds like 18 wizard 1 cleric, 19 fighter 1 cleric. When I ask them why they took 1 cleric level, they all tell me they wanted self heal.

Here's my question, how much can you heal yourself with a cure light wand? And is it going to be fast enough to keep yourself alive even though you take bunch of damage from bunch of mobs end game.

Multiclassing might sound nice, but please think about the fact that you are sacrificing your capstone, make sure you get something useful out of it.

I did want self healing on some of my toons, for those who want to self heal as a dps or caster class, I recommend they go human for heal amp and take 2 rogue levels for UMD and use heal scrolls on themselves. It is a better option for many builds. You get attack speed boost + evasion also a little sneak attack damage out of it. Even trap skills, if you wish.

Enjoy gaming!
Gelb.

I think U have forgotten one thing - the usage lvl of a wand or scroll is based on NOT the single lvl of cleric BUT the TOTAL lvl of the toon. i.e. cleric 1/fighter 4 can use lvl 5 divine wands/scrolls, cleric 1/fighter 19 can use ANY lvl divine wand/scroll.
This also holds true for any lvl 1 arcane splash.
Now there will always be a chance the scroll will fall if Ur CASTER lvl, (not over all lvl,) does not equal the minimum lvl of the scroll. BUT there is NO CHANCE of spell failure with wands.
And lesser/greater reincarnate will that care of the capstone problem.

Now don't get me wrong I think splashing one lvl of ANYTHING is not the way to go... And it would be better to splash 2 lvls of ROGUE and use UMD, not to mention the evasion bonus.

[Chai]

Empower Healing for Halfling Dragonmarks? A Command spell that's effective (against the right targets) up to about level 8? Use of Restoration scrolls that doesn't depend upon UMD (and thus can allow you to restore neg levels upon yourself).

I think the utility from a single Wizard level is better as it grants Stoneskin and 10th level Shield/Blur wands and the Dragonmark Heal is so slow

1 Clr doesn't compare favourably with the Bard or Paladin capstone imo, but levelling in a static or permadeath group 1 Cleric on a high Charisma character is handy for divine vitalities and wand use. Especially if you don't use rest shrines :P

Restoration scrolls needed to wipe away neg levels will be well out of reach of a 1 cleric splash. You can use lesser restoration scrolls or wands which get rid of stat debuffs and such.

I used to see 1 cleric splash on bards back in the cap 16 days to get a bunch of low power DVs, which was still questionable, heh.

Alot of the crazy mutt builds I see in PD wouldnt hold their weight in elite high end gaming and epic questing though. Metagaming through elite low level content is different than high end elite and epic content which unfortunately favors specialization and is designed for min maxing. It would certainly depend on the player and the gear level.

[Chai]

I think U have forgotten one thing - the usage lvl of a wand or scroll is based on NOT the single lvl of cleric BUT the TOTAL lvl of the toon. i.e. cleric 1/fighter 4 can use lvl 5 divine wands/scrolls, cleric 1/fighter 19 can use ANY lvl divine wand/scroll.

Yes for wands. No for scrolls. Scrolls require you to make a caster level check based on the level of casting ability only. They also have a minimum level equal to two levels below the level that the caster would acquire the spell. If a single level of cleric gave you the ability to rock heal scrolls without UMD, then I could see 1 level cleric splashes being the norm, but this is clearly not the case.

[DrNuegebauer]

Yes for wands. No for scrolls. Scrolls require you to make a caster level check based on the level of casting ability only. They also have a minimum level equal to two levels below the level that the caster would acquire the spell. If a single level of cleric gave you the ability to rock heal scrolls without UMD, then I could see 1 level cleric splashes being the norm, but this is clearly not the case.

Just quoted for truth.

Sad that people think 1 cleric level will give you access to heal scrolls OR reduce the UMD requirement of them. It won't!

Splash 1 rogue instead and take UMD as a skill!

[Wizzly_Bear]

1 cleric level = no fail cure critical wand usage = two-fisted healing = not useless

[Wizzly_Bear]

That said, I would personally recommend bard or ranger over cleric.

[Chai]

1 cleric level = no fail cure critical wand usage = two-fisted healing = not useless

Depending on the build, there is likely a better splash they could have taken instead of 1 level of cleric. I could care less about interpreting peoples builds though. I will run with them if they are a good player and can get the job done.

That said, I would personally recommend bard or ranger over cleric.

Yeap.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Just quoted for truth.

Sad that people think 1 cleric level will give you access to heal scrolls OR reduce the UMD requirement of them. It won't!

Splash 1 rogue instead and take UMD as a skill!

No, what's sad is you thinking you know everything. All of us were new and uninformed once. I'd be willing to bet 100 large scales that there are at least 3 thing you think you know about ddo but are wrong about, and at least 10 you never even thought of.

[stille_nacht]

i once saw a cleric/wizard/rogue. when asked why they responded "so i can hurt and heal at the same time"

multiclassing don't work that way people. it just don't.

im sure he quickly learned from his mistake though.

sure it does!

he can hurt like a level 8, and heal like a level 10! in amrath...

[Alabore]

That's still a fail build. What did that 1 clr give you that 1 ranger or 1 pali would not? (or even 1 rogue for UMD)

Lesser Restoration wands.
But really, if that Cleric level really irks you so much, I'll be more than gladly to accept donations for a +1 Druidic Heart.
Make it Greater, so I can turn that char into a 32-pointer, too.

...

[Club'in]

back in the day a 9 paladin 1 cleric was teh uberz!


keyword: back in the day

Two keywords: Divine Vitality! lol....yeah, I had one of those....can you say rerolled? I knew you could!

[JollySwagMan]

Restoration scrolls needed to wipe away neg levels will be well out of reach of a 1 cleric splash. You can use lesser restoration scrolls or wands which get rid of stat debuffs and such.

I used to see 1 cleric splash on bards back in the cap 16 days to get a bunch of low power DVs, which was still questionable, heh.

Alot of the crazy mutt builds I see in PD wouldnt hold their weight in elite high end gaming and epic questing though. Metagaming through elite low level content is different than high end elite and epic content which unfortunately favors specialization and is designed for min maxing. It would certainly depend on the player and the gear level.

Greater Restoration is out of reach, but not regular Restoration scrolls. With 1 Cleric level they can be used - albeit with a mediocre success rate, but one that is not dependent upon skill bonuses (which are subject to neg levels).

And I agree that endgame favours specialisation to such a point that experimental builds are not recommended. However I don't think that an endgame focus is relevant to all build advice.

When directed to the forums, new players see build threads which assume +2 tomes, bound gear etc. They are told to cap a character and then learn the game. IMO this is good for the DDO Store since it leads to lots of LR/TR sales purchased by new players who invest too much into their characters too early.

Rerolling is good. Rerolling is healthy! Reroll lots before you buy that +2 Supreme Tome :/

[zex95966]

Or go helf and take cleric dille. you can then stay pure

[Gelb]

Ooo. wait a sec, Once you pass that 6th level of cleric the rules change. RS, burst, changes the rules, and 8 levels? Why not take 9 and get BB? Makes no sense to stop at 8 unless they were trying for a 12/6 Dual PrE split, and in those cases, it would be 2 monk or 2 rogue thrown in to add evasion feat, which is near a requirement for any self sufficient build, unless it was like a pally/cleric split, but even then, a Pally/Cleric would gain more from 2 monk then 2 more cleric levels. Maybe a 12/8 monk/cleric split, but, still I think 14 monk would be better then 2 more cleric levels, or 11/9 split in that case.

My example was a little bit off-topic. I gotta admit, but was just saying. Topic is still focused on only 1 level or maybe 2 of cleric.

My answer for you would be the fact that even if you put like 6 levels of cleric in there, you still sacrifice dps for aura burst. When it comes to end game there's mostly healers taking care of people anyways. Well, I can see the benefit of taking 12 cleric levels for aura, still when you run out of auras build would be useless and BB would be probably weak, since you wouldn't have room for quicken, maximize, empower. And very low sp... But this is a little off topic.

[JollySwagMan]

My example was a little bit off-topic. I gotta admit, but was just saying. Topic is still focused on only 1 level or maybe 2 of cleric.

My answer for you would be the fact that even if you put like 6 levels of cleric in there, you still sacrifice dps for aura burst. When it comes to end game there's mostly healers taking care of people anyways. Well, I can see the benefit of taking 12 cleric levels for aura, still when you run out of auras build would be useless and BB would be probably weak, since you wouldn't have room for quicken, maximize, empower. And very low sp... But this is a little off topic.

At risk of derail:

I think a Radiant II/Paladin Defender/Evasion splash might be an interesting split for an Intimitank/Backup Healer. Maximise/Empower Healing/Empower/Quicken would be vital as the build would rely on bursts when required to solo-heal. I don't know if the Paladin ability Divine Righteousness works for such a purpose, but it might have some interesting synergies with Cleric spells - but I am unclear as to how Hate-generating dynamics of non-damage spells (eg Cleric symbols) work now. If it requires damaging spells (BB most likely - which may be more effective in a random group scenario with additional hate generation) then all the metas involved would make this a SP-intensive tactic on a low SP-build (presuming that damage spells would need to be meta'd). One might consider Aligning the Heavens vs Cleric 12 for the experiment, but this would restrict the build's functionality between shield use and ki generation - not worth trading the Aura for. If Divine Righteousness does require damaging spells in order to be effective, Fighter Defender may be preferred for extra feats in order to optimise Intimidate.

On topic:

I agree with you in that a single splash of Cleric is not worth a capstone for most builds. The exceptions that I have pointed out are geared towards builds that won't be using that capstone anyway (due to deeper multiclassing, rerolling etc.).

[pokeoutyoureardrums]

I have been seeing a lot of builds like 18 wizard 1 cleric, 19 fighter 1 cleric. When I ask them why they took 1 cleric level, they all tell me they wanted self heal.

Here's my question, how much can you heal yourself with a cure light wand? And is it going to be fast enough to keep yourself alive even though you take bunch of damage from bunch of mobs end game.

Multiclassing might sound nice, but please think about the fact that you are sacrificing your capstone, make sure you get something useful out of it.

I did want self healing on some of my toons, for those who want to self heal as a dps or caster class, I recommend they go human for heal amp and take 2 rogue levels for UMD and use heal scrolls on themselves. It is a better option for many builds. You get attack speed boost + evasion also a little sneak attack damage out of it. Even trap skills, if you wish.

Enjoy gaming!
Gelb.

I have a build in mind. 3 spell levels of wiz and 3 spell levels of cleric. The rest barb. No points spent on the casting, just be happy with some basic healing and buffing. Use all of your points and enhancements for the barb factor. Not the best build, i think, but not the worst.

Won't be the best healer but good enough to survive solo.

Not a powerful arcane caster but will have some range attacks and be able to buff yourself.

Basically a self sufficient mini tank. This is a tangent and not the right place for this, but i already typed it. Thoughts?

EDIT: you would need to spend points on fluidity for the casting part to work, but who can't afford 12 points?

[thegreatneil]

I have a build in mind. 3 spell levels of wiz and 3 spell levels of cleric. The rest barb. No points spent on the casting, just be happy with some basic healing and buffing. Use all of your points and enhancements for the barb factor. Not the best build, i think, but not the worst.

Won't be the best healer but good enough to survive solo.

Not a powerful arcane caster but will have some range attacks and be able to buff yourself.

Basically a self sufficient mini tank. This is a tangent and not the right place for this, but i already typed it. Thoughts?

EDIT: you would need to spend points on fluidity for the casting part to work, but who can't afford 12 points?

Perhaps 18 barb / 2 rogue and just UMD what you need. (you cant scroll or wand raged i don't think)

@Haters, A 19fighter/ 1cleric AA kensei build could work well (i would got 1bard personally)

[JollySwagMan]

I have a build in mind. 3 spell levels of wiz and 3 spell levels of cleric. The rest barb. No points spent on the casting, just be happy with some basic healing and buffing. Use all of your points and enhancements for the barb factor. Not the best build, i think, but not the worst.

Won't be the best healer but good enough to survive solo.

Not a powerful arcane caster but will have some range attacks and be able to buff yourself.

Basically a self sufficient mini tank. This is a tangent and not the right place for this, but i already typed it. Thoughts?

Thing is - the spells available to 3rd level Wizards/Clerics are also available at vendors in scroll form. So a Rogue splash may better serve a Barbarian - allowing UMD of higher level spells (most notably Heal scrolls) and Evasion. Barbarians also get a few more skill points than most classes, which helps with Rogue synergy.

An exception I mentioned in a previous post is scroll use when under the effect of negative levels - the Cleric splash would have some ability to restore lost levels to itself. However this functionality doesn't compare favourably with Evasion/UMD in my opinion.

If you're not set on higher level content, a Wizard-splashed Barbarian can be great for farming low level favour across the servers, using Shield, Exp Retreat and Charm spells/wands to enhance your character's solo ability. You might be surprised at how low the Will saves are on Elite Hobgoblins in Tangleroot

[pokeoutyoureardrums]

Thing is - the spells available to 3rd level Wizards/Clerics are also available at vendors in scroll form. So a Rogue splash may better serve a Barbarian - allowing UMD of higher level spells (most notably Heal scrolls) and Evasion. Barbarians also get a few more skill points than most classes, which helps with Rogue synergy.

An exception I mentioned in a previous post is scroll use when under the effect of negative levels - the Cleric splash would have some ability to restore lost levels to itself. However this functionality doesn't compare favourably with Evasion/UMD in my opinion.

Using scrolls never occurred to me. Almost like having 4 classes.

[JollySwagMan]

Using scrolls never occurred to me. Almost like having 4 classes.

UMD is awesome