Sins Elite Elitism

[mudfud]

I Like Waffles.......and Syrup!

Makes me want to almost go to IHOP and see the big deal about this chicken and waffles combo they doing.

[gfunk]

I ask this as neutrally as possible:

Is it "Elitist" to decline a level 20 Pew-Pew Ranger with 280 HP for a Sins Elite group?

I was neither the Ranger, nor the decliner.

So what's the consensus, Sarlona?

Well, I'll tell ya, that normally I wouldn't accept any pugs, no matter what their stats or class. I'd prefer to solo it, or short man it. Ever since they started releasing content, player ability has gone way down hill (why can't it be 2008 again where everyone knew all the quests backwards and forwards and we had to run them with no gear to make it fun/interesting?)

That said.. if I was going to pug it... and I do occassionaly pug (really hex!). Then **** rights I would accept the Pew-pew! The way things are on the server, there is just as much of a chance of the 800hp barb, or 400 hp wf wizi annoying/entertaining me to no ends. Why wouldn't I take the ranger? I say, that if you are going to pug elite, then you should be prepared to solo it if needs be anyways.

[Phidius]

...why can't it be 2008 again where everyone knew all the quests backwards and forwards and we had to run them with no gear to make it fun/interesting?...

Of course, back then everyone complained about the lack of content and how boring it was... not me, though. I'm weird in that I really enjoy the comfort of a well-worn rut.

Don't tell my wife I said that

[Tobril]

Had quite the experience getting elite yugo favor this week.

First group for sins was a PUG that went quite well, no real issues.


What followed afterwards, however, was one fail-train after another. Wizard in an 80+ level guild that didn't haste/rage/CC/anything. Other casters who tried to be effective seemed to get one-shotted right away every new fight. (myDDO would later show that caster had ~200 HP and 0% fort) Various other issues too numerous to mention didn't help.

Ultimately it was probably my fault for not checking people beyond asking "can you handle this".

The last three of my characters who chased elite favor didn't have any problems. (this was quite some time ago) One of those times was even short-manned with no healer.

As such it's getting a lot more tempting to screen via not only tells but also myDDO…

[CanuckWench]

Aww man.. did you really have to do that to me man? Now I'm hungry. >.<

You are always hungry ... no go make me a sandwich!

[ballsz]

No not elitist by any means. I wouldn't of taken them either. I may have sent a tell asking about the low hp, and given some tips on how to fix it, depends on the mood I was in.

My bard did a sins the other day with 320hp and didn't die. o.o So I guess it depends on who you're playing with?

Well, your bard can(should) also keep themselves displaced at all times essentially doubling your hp as long as your not standing in the traps.

[Humperdink]

Let's see if I make a successful roll on my Raise Dead Thread spell...

Inflammatory version- The problem is you may be elitist but you are not an Elite player. An elite player would help the player through and meet success without burning through a ridiculous amount of consumables.

Ok, now that I got my obligatory troll response out of the way. In my opinion it depends on your character you are using, your knowledge of the quest, and your ability to control the flow of action. I have pugged elite Sins on Sarlona several times. And I used characters that met the above criteria. Example- a couple months back I did such a group. I knew one other person and it was a healer I trusted. I was on my sorcerer. We filled the group with 4 puggers who were not too well equipped but were generally willing to listen and learn. Very similar to what the OP posted. Quest went smoothly. How did we succeed?

-I used large amounts of crowd control (Otto's Irresistible, Dancing Ball, Mass Hold, Mind Fog, Mass Suggestion)
-I changed up my magic a little bit to keep the group engaged and fun for all. When I could of level drained and quickly fingered a bad guy, I instead cast hold and let the melee go to town
-I offered advice to the group on what weapons may work better, where to position themselves, etc
-I supplemented the healing here and there with scrolls
-I kept the party buffed with haste, displacement, stoneskin, rage, resistances, mass protects, etc
-I monitored boss health and if it felt like we were falling a little behind I started unloading damage spells to help.

Everybody had a good time. I felt happy helping out newer players and allowing them to experience a fun, intense quest, where everyone participated instead of just standing at the beginning and waiting for the FvS to BB everything to the end. They all enjoyed themselves while voice and party chat reflected that fact. And they got to see veterans working together to help make a typically painful run go smooth.

[mudfud]

Let's see if I make a successful roll on my Raise Dead Thread spell...

Inflammatory version- The problem is you may be elitist but you are not an Elite player. An elite player would help the player through and meet success without burning through a ridiculous amount of consumables.

Ok, now that I got my obligatory troll response out of the way. In my opinion it depends on your character you are using, your knowledge of the quest, and your ability to control the flow of action. I have pugged elite Sins on Sarlona several times. And I used characters that met the above criteria. Example- a couple months back I did such a group. I knew one other person and it was a healer I trusted. I was on my sorcerer. We filled the group with 4 puggers who were not too well equipped but were generally willing to listen and learn. Very similar to what the OP posted. Quest went smoothly. How did we succeed?

-I used large amounts of crowd control (Otto's Irresistible, Dancing Ball, Mass Hold, Mind Fog, Mass Suggestion)
-I changed up my magic a little bit to keep the group engaged and fun for all. When I could of level drained and quickly fingered a bad guy, I instead cast hold and let the melee go to town
-I offered advice to the group on what weapons may work better, where to position themselves, etc
-I supplemented the healing here and there with scrolls
-I kept the party buffed with haste, displacement, stoneskin, rage, resistances, mass protects, etc
-I monitored boss health and if it felt like we were falling a little behind I started unloading damage spells to help.

Everybody had a good time. I felt happy helping out newer players and allowing them to experience a fun, intense quest, where everyone participated instead of just standing at the beginning and waiting for the FvS to BB everything to the end. They all enjoyed themselves while voice and party chat reflected that fact. And they got to see veterans working together to help make a typically painful run go smooth.

You missed the memo that was called the last update/patch. Sins Elite is nerfed. You no longer need to be or have elite elitists who think or know they are elite but are not really elite. Furthermore it was nerfed so much in the current update/patch that you no longer need to use large amounts of crowd control supplemented with the healing of scrolls. Or even offer advice that might cause you to change up your spells to use damage spells on the boss if damage is not up to the past elitist level.

[Velexia]

Did you check to see if they had on a +15 Haggle Item where a +6 Con item might go? I do that a lot, and sometimes I don't notice until after I have completed the quest with no deaths...

HP are your margin of error, not your chance of success.

Skill beats quests, not HP.

[Envoi]

Equipment > play skill

Or is it

Play skill > equipment

I forget (**** tasty delicious beer)

Someone did a breakdown once for a FB barb.

Equipment > Build > Skill

[Humperdink]

You missed the memo that was called the last update/patch. Sins Elite is nerfed. You no longer need to be or have elite elitists who think or know they are elite but are not really elite. Furthermore it was nerfed so much in the current update/patch that you no longer need to use large amounts of crowd control supplemented with the healing of scrolls. Or even offer advice that might cause you to change up your spells to use damage spells on the boss if damage is not up to the past elitist level.

I wasn't aware Sins had been changed up. This was sometime last year. Haven't played the game much since, just poking at my TR with a stick here and there. Regardless, the statement still stands that a good player can run others that are considered gimped by many through a lot of content (I'm not saying all) and it doesn't have to be a screaming bloody expensive experience. Hexxa does it all the time.

[mudfud]

I wasn't aware Sins had been changed up. This was sometime last year. Haven't played the game much since, just poking at my TR with a stick here and there. Regardless, the statement still stands that a good player can run others that are considered gimped by many through a lot of content (I'm not saying all) and it doesn't have to be a screaming bloody expensive experience. Hexxa does it all the time.

I would actually say all. A good player will have the patience for the 'gimped' ones and show them how its done and get it done, not by showing or doing it themself but by communicating it. That's the thing that separates a lot of the mediocre elite players and the truly elite/good players.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The best players do not care if someone else is gimped.

[Original]

But I bet he was wearing all the Crystal Cove EPIC GEAR!

I love running into 20's who are not flagged for Shroud or who have never done VOD or Hound.
I have been to lasy latey and take whoever hits lfm... Painfull but does give some laughs for sure.

[aronious]

I personaly know a Pew-Pew ranger on Sarlona with hp's in the 300's that can and has soled all of those quests on elite. It doesnt hurt that he has 20+ pieces of epic gear and at last count 26 tier 3 Greensteel pieces; hp's isnt the only defining factor of a good build or player. You might want to DDO them and view the gear they wear ... how many times have you seen Barbs at level 20 wearing Korthos Island stuff!

[Munesai]

I personaly know a Pew-Pew ranger on Sarlona with hp's in the 300's that can and has soled all of those quests on elite. It doesnt hurt that he has 20+ pieces of epic gear and at last count 26 tier 3 Greensteel pieces; hp's isnt the only defining factor of a good build or player. You might want to DDO them and view the gear they wear ... how many times have you seen Barbs at level 20 wearing Korthos Island stuff!

My analysis: Subject appears to suffer from disposophobia, extreme introversion, and unemployment.

[Aeolwind]

But I bet he was wearing all the Crystal Cove EPIC GEAR!

I love running into 20's who are not flagged for Shroud or who have never done VOD or Hound.
I have been to lasy latey and take whoever hits lfm... Painfull but does give some laughs for sure.

I was 20 on my fighter before I ran Hound/Vod =(. I figured if I didn't know the quest, the least I should do is be over level to compensate for the newbness lol.

[donfilibuster]

If the pew-pew ranger is an AA, has the player skill of a quake player and link you at least a dozen GS bows for the occasion then yeah, is ok to let them in and understanable they would not go beyond 300 hp since they would manage well.
Still elitist maybe but safe to pick.

[Bodic]

as long as there are 1 or 2 souls in party everyone else should be piking so yes I would allow said AA.