Sins Elite Elitism

[NaturalHazard]

Would sound like a cash register, or one of those annoying timer bells from a 1970's era game show.

I love it when you get ultra squishy AA's that never put the bow down, kite like crazy people and defend their hp total because they are such great kiters they never get hit, then they go to the vale and amarath with enemies that teleport to them, , I love those devils and orthons!!!

[Acehole31]

The proper choice was made in this particular instance. It's not elitist to build a party towards success, nor is it elitist to decline someone because their build simply will not last enough to contribute. It's common sense. :|

And speaking of rangers: The good ones know how and when to range, do not kite unless the situation specifically calls for it, can handle the aggro just standing there should they pull it (Read: HP, AC, DR, self healing, DPS), and will melee as needed. Most ranger hate comes from those who don't play a ranged ranger properly, but those who understand the class and mechanics and play them properly are freaking awesome. I've seen both sides of the Ranger coin, and the difference is like night and day, noob and pro.

280 is unacceptable for ANY melee, including Rangers.

[Quikster]

Wow. This thread has been getting a lot of love while I've been asleep.

So I'm starting to see some differing opinions here:
1. Using MyDDO to screen people is bad.

I've heard something like this before; why exactly? As long as its up-to-date (you can check that at the bottom right of the window), why not utilize a tool that is at least a snapshot of a toon's life?

To be clear I never said it was bad, I said I dont use it. IMO using myddo is a sign of newbness. Let me explain why.


First I would very likely never pug spots on any amrath run. If I did I would understand that pugging comes with inherant risks (like getting a 240 hp ranger). So if im prepared to take these risks why bother looking them up? Myddo is a flawed tool at best, and a total misrepresentation of a player character at worst. Yes if you use myddo you can avoid the 240 hp rangers (usually) but it canno give you the most important player information needed to succed content you find difficult (if its not difficult for you why on earth are you using such a screening tool?) That information is if the player can follow instructions and excute them accordingly.

What if that ranger had 500 hp and didnt follow a lick of instructions or play as a team. In my opinion that information is much more important then how many hp they have or what kind of weapons they are using. Avoiding the player with few hitpoints can be justifiable, yet it is rare that someone makes it to cap without learning the important of some hitpoints and heavy fort. If they do a ride in someones backpack with a cleric that can stand up for themselves may serve them good.

Once again, continue to use myddo, I dont care, I never said it was bad.

[stoopid_cowboy]

If you run Sins of Attrition in elite, you will more need a good healer and not a dumber who lets his companion dying (sorry that's easy) and a good leader.

A good healer would keep everyone in party alive to completion using whatever rescources needed to accomplish the goal. A great healer would know when to let the party mana sponge die. Sometimes 5 people and a stone are a stronger group than 6 people. Just sayin...

To the OP, I would not have taken said AA either. But everyone knows my feelings towards pew pew rangers. Some play well and are a great contribution to the group, the rest are like Miley Cyrus. Semi entertaining, but no real world value.

yuda

[Quikster]

Semi entertaining, but no real world value.

yuda

You cant put a real world value on entertainment, it changes from person to person, and one mans entertainment is anothers headache

[bryanmeerkat]

I would be intrested to know how you knew he had 280 hitpoints , I guiess if you asked and he told then fair enough but myddo is not a reliable source for this info

[Delt]

I would be intrested to know how you knew he had 280 hitpoints , I guiess if you asked and he told then fair enough but myddo is not a reliable source for this info

It's pretty reliable lately.

[OLDTIMEDD]

i personally have a lvl 20 elven AA don't recall start con off hand but at 20 have 340hp.
The total include minos, a dusk heart and a +6 con item, no greensteel items as of yet but ocasionally have a problem staying alive mostly due to not watching hp. Seems sometimes I forget to cast healing on myself (also have 562 sp ) . Since joining a guild I don't solo as much anymore and we usually have ahealer or 2 in grp.

Not sure if it is elitist or just rudeness but rangers are almost always auto declined sadly. I use a bow but know when to switch to my dual wield weps appropriate for task at hand... If you never run with rangers, how will you find the ones that do contribute to your group??? just my op take it or leave it or just plain ignore it as you wish

[Saravis]

It's pretty reliable lately.

I wonder how accurate it really is. I typically have over 300 on my caster, but there are times when I will switch out my GFL and/or con items for whatever reason, who's to say that my info isn't obtained during those times. It's been made pretty evident, considering the previous lack of updated info, that myDDO doesn't update on an automatic basis. So I have to wonder how reliable it is, when its very well possible that your info is obtained when you have your haggle necklace on to sell some stuff instead of your Shav necklace?

[Tobril]

It's pretty reliable lately.

Some of my guys still don't show up correctly.

As such you can't rely on it exclusively.


Every time I've had to earn yugo favor there has been a "Are you a bad enough dude to save the president" interview. Once a bit of gear and tactics are worked out running those quests can go pretty smooth.

[MsEricka]

Anyone who's got half a brain can tell when someone has swapped out their con item for a haggle item or their minos for a a teleport mask etc.

But as an example, I've seen a WF caster in myddo wearing a helmet of inner focus and a moderate fort belt. When seeing that you need to assume that they are wearing that gear intentionally and lack toughness.

Yes myddo is a guessing game sometimes, but it's also a good primer on the character and sometimes the player too. No matter what you do, if you look on myddo and see a character with 8 or 10 con they're going to be squishy no matter what gear they put on.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

280 HP for a Sins Elite group

People really have HP that low? Decline.

[TheDearLeader]

To be clear I never said it was bad, I said I dont use it. IMO using myddo is a sign of newbness. Let me explain why.


First I would very likely never pug spots on any amrath run.

What if that ranger had 500 hp and didnt follow a lick of instructions or play as a team.

Once again, continue to use myddo, I dont care, I never said it was bad.

Heavily edited the above to the "sweet spots": I hate quoting large posts in full.

At the end, you claim you never say it to be "bad" to use it... but in the beginning you said it is a "sign of newbness". These two sentences seem to be in opposition to one another.

Also, "First, I would likely never pug spots on any amrath run."

But, you said, in response to someone else saying they'd take him on their run:

And I would take him because i dont use myddo to screen, he would die, we would complete, everyone would be happy.

So which is it? You'd pug him in, or you wouldn't?

Then the last tidbit:

What if that ranger had 500 hp and didnt follow a lick of instructions or play as a team.

To this, I fully agree with you. Just because the MyDDO "snapshot" looks legit, it is in no way a guarantee of player skill or cooperativeness.

However, I will add that the inverse is not necessarily true. While MyDDO doesn't have a "Player Skill" rating anywhere, gear choices, build choices, etc. can be a satisfactory display of "lack of player skill". And its more than just checking HP/Fortification/Date of Snapshot Update. Its looking over all the pieces of gear, confirming lack of haggle gear, and noting that it is instead the player's "Combat attire", and then still finding it to be... well, lacking.

But in sum: Whether or not you agree with MyDDO usage, you would have *not* accepted this person into your group, like the majority of other thread posters have said? You don't pug Amrath, after all.

[geoffhanna]

Yes it was elitist

I would have brought him unless (a) I knew something else about him or (b) had several joiners from which to choose.

Your group your call though. Obviously.

BTW, how did you know he was a pew pew ranger?

[TheDearLeader]

Yes it was elitist

I would have brought him unless (a) I knew something else about him or (b) had several joiners from which to choose.

Your group your call though. Obviously.

BTW, how did you know he was a pew pew ranger?

Actually, wasn't my group or my call. Good fail on reading OP. Specifically stated as such.

I said "Pew Pew" ranger because he had a Lit II Bow in his hands on MyDDO. Considering everything else he had for gear was pretty junky, I feel safe in assuming it was his first Tier III GS item, meaning he puts priority on bow use, meaning Pew Pew! The fact that he was elven helped.

Could he have been Tempest? Sure. But I don't see many Tempest Rangers that leave the bow in-hand any longer than necessary.

And if you would have brought him, I challenge you to the same as I have the other respondents of like mind: go do it.

To those who say "I would have taken him":
1. I posted this right before we actually started the quest, 10:45 PM EST on Saturday. One might assume that the player is an adult in the North America region with standard play times.
2. The party was open simply as "Sins of Attrition" under the Quest Panel, and Elite as the detail notes.
3. I encourage each and every one of the two of you to hop onto Sarlona this evening, and pop up your own LFM for Sins Elite. Heck, run it 3-4 times with all sorts of new people.
4. You can have, at most, *1* other person in there you know and trust. The other 4 must be complete strangers to you. The other 4 must participate throughout the entirety of the quest.

And well.. we'll just see how things go, yes?

[Saravis]

Anyone who's got half a brain can tell when someone has swapped out their con item for a haggle item or their minos for a a teleport mask etc.

But as an example, I've seen a WF caster in myddo wearing a helmet of inner focus and a moderate fort belt. When seeing that you need to assume that they are wearing that gear intentionally and lack toughness.

Yes myddo is a guessing game sometimes, but it's also a good primer on the character and sometimes the player too. No matter what you do, if you look on myddo and see a character with 8 or 10 con they're going to be squishy no matter what gear they put on.

Haggle item is just an example.

On my caster, I have an equipment setup that gives me better damage, but at the cost of less health. I wear this setup when I know that I won't have any concern for my health during a quest, that doesn't mean I don't have a setup that enforces survivability.

Another example is on my ranger, I have the Elders Focus that I switch my con necklace out when I'm buffing. When I'm done buffing I switch it back. How would you know by looking at my ranger, that I have a con item or not if my info is obtained during that time?

Finally, I also have a magi quarterstaff on my ranger. If my info is obtained while I have that staff equipped, can you figure out what kind of ranger I am?

Who's to say that the leader of the party, even took the time to look at the 280 hp Ranger's equipment setup or ask him/her how much HP they have or even can have? That same leader might have looked at my horribly low HP ranger and not even thought for a minute that I might have a con necklace to replace my Elder's Focus necklace.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

You know whats fun?

Sometimes I rearrange all my toon's gear before logging out, just to mess with people who use MyDDO as gospel.

Its fun to watch my cleric/caster/barb get the 3rd degree before joining a quest we've all run 100 times.

My fun may not be your fun, to each their own I guess.

[stille_nacht]

My wizard has 322 hp without her GS hp item on... (ive had it off for a while now for some reason o-O), there is no reason that a ranger should have HP that low, and certainly not if they want to do elite amrath, so no, not really elitist imo.

[LordPiglet]

Even if I re-arrange all my gear, I think the lowest my con will show is 18 on both Alyesia and Arrael. The only time I don't have a +6 con GFL belt on is when I'm going for GH or trying to dance someone

My elven ranger had 405 at cap her first life, another friend on mine has around 450 hp on his AA with no shroud HP item.

Personally, solo sins on normal right now and can probably do it on hard. Blur and Displacement (especially this) are huge factors in my survival.

I recently ran Sins on normal with a 200 hp FVS. We were under level (meh) but it was terribad. They couldn't take a hit so we ended up having to bluff pull through the whole thing. I wasn't with my guildies but am friends with one of the others so I just stayed with it.

[Molotov]

hp too low, its common sense to not group with said person on an elite run of any quest