Sins Elite Elitism

[Saravis]

what do you have on your head that's so important you can't wear minos?

Tereza's Perfect Sight with the full set covering my wis item, str item, and wasting a ring slot. The ring slot wasted isn't lovely, but the set bonus is nice. Perhaps I'll change things around someday, perhaps.

I have a level 20 AA...elven to boot. Not a twinked out toon by any standard. I honestly don't know how a toon can have 280 HP with a starting con of 14. I had a starting con of 14 and unbuffed, I sit at 424 (which even feels squishy). Something sounds off.

No idea, thats the math, perhaps you're not a pure ranger?

Funny, I'm getting so much attention, when I just had a dumb story that was worth mentioning, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Meh, not really, but whatever.

[TheDearLeader]

Seems this turned into an advice thread on HP. We finished, btw. Lucky winner got his Yugo favor (already had mine).

Elven Ranger
160 Base HP
20 Heroic Durability
22 Toughness (Feat)
20 Toughness (Enhancements, 3 AP)
40 Base 14 Con
60 Con +6 Item
30 Greater False Life
10 Draconic Vitality (GH/Reaver's Refuge Favor)
20 Toughness (Item)
=382, as MyDDO would see a totally unbuffed character.

Ways to pump this up even further without having Yugo Favor/Using Turbine Points:
20 Rage, as per Spell
40 Madstone Rage
40 Double Madstone
20 +2 Ship Con Shrine
=Possible 502.

I'm sure that's missing something, but that's what I can easily come up with. It also doesn't include Shroup HP/DT HP items.

[Faent]

I'd take him for the entertainment value.

This. I can solo Sins Elite on my ranger, and have no problems keeping myself alive without a cleric (and killing everything, if I have to) in a six-man group. So yes, I'd bring them in for the entertainment value. It'd also be an edumacational experience for them. "OMG, that ranger isn't taking damage and is leading the kill count!?!?! WHY DO I SUCK SO MUCH? !?!?!" If I was running it on my FvS, I'd probably tell them to hang back since I won't be healing them. Then either just grind everything up in BB's or heal the competent players while they have fun killing stuff.

[Saravis]

120 Con +6 Item

Correction +6 item would be +3 modifier meaning 60 HP not 120 at lvl 20.

I might end up with more HP at 20, no idea, but still amusing that I had a couple of (good) players tell me to dump con a couple points. My third finger is pointed in the upward position towards them, in jest of course.

[TheDearLeader]

Correction +6 item would be +3 modifier meaning 60 HP not 120 at lvl 20.

I might end up with more HP at 20, no idea, but still amusing that I had a couple of (good) players tell me to dump con a couple points.

Bah, I make that same mistake all the effin time. Corrected my original, thanks.

[Seamonkeysix]

Probably so, but I remember when I first created my AA. Other players I ran with, were so insistent that I put too much into con and that I should lower it because I didn't need that much and I should put more into str, bla bla bla.
They are good players by the way, well recognized on the server.

Amusingly (not sure if its good or bad considering the topic at hand) my con was 14, which would amount to 220 at lvl 20 and 280 with +6 item. My head item is preoccupied and so I can't wear the Minos Legen. I have a GFL ring on, but that will get replaced at lvl 20, meaning I'll have to figure out another place to put GFL. The belt is preoccupied by Heavy Fort. What am I saying? I really have no idea, other than I'll have 280 at lvl 20 WITH a con item and not sure if I'll be able to get more.

Edit: correction in my favor, forgot to mention toughness, which will bring me up to 303, guess thats saying something.

Tereza's Perfect Sight with the full set covering my wis item, str item, and wasting a ring slot. The ring slot wasted isn't lovely, but the set bonus is nice. Perhaps I'll change things around someday, perhaps.


No idea, thats the math, perhaps you're not a pure ranger?

Funny, I'm getting so much attention, when I just had a dumb story that was worth mentioning, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Meh, not really, but whatever.

Myddo Pinkpoison of Sarlona. 20 ranger. Elf. AA. 424 hp.

[Saravis]

Myddo Pinkpoison of Sarlona. 20 ranger. Elf. AA. 424 hp.

Okie dokie then, I don't need to look, I believe you Well that is to say, I'm too lazy to look, never used the thing except in curiosity of some such thing.

[TheDearLeader]

So overall, it would seem to be the consensus that anyone with 280 HP isn't really a worthwhile contribution to an Elite Amrath quest, aside from obvious comedic value?

One thing I will say : this person was NOT unguilded. There was a guild tag associated with this individual, so someone's obviously let him think its cool to be at that level of HP.

Oh - he also has a ToD ring, btw. So it may or may not have had +2 ExCon slotted.

[Faent]

So overall, it would seem to be the consensus that anyone with 280 HP isn't really a worthwhile contribution to an Elite Amrath quest, aside from obvious comedic value?

Well, I could drop my ranger's HP to 280 and still contribute effectively. So taken as a universal principle, your claim is false. =) (Actually, I bet I could solo the quest at 280 HP.) In a six-man group with a healer who didn't let the well-geared barbarian die, I wouldn't die running with 280 HP. Of course, I'd be keeping myself displaced, I'd be perma-blurred, I'd be maintaining 10 DR, and when that briefly drops, 5 DR, etc... I can self-heal from my blue bar for around 120 HP a pop, I no-fail heal scrolls, and I can maintain every buff needed for the quest, including Nightshield and Fire Shield Hot/Cold. So some people can contribute effectively to a Sins Elite with 280 HP. But you're insane if you expect a 280 HP pugger to be doing this.

[mudfud]

I loved when ddo turned into do as much dps as possible instead of knowing when and how to control agro. I'd take that ranger anytime.

[Entelech]

Any player experienced enough to manage aggro well is unlikely to have only 280 HP, unless he's doing it intentionally as a challenge to see how he does with zero margin for error.

If he's badass enough to be saying "I'm going to play a 6-Con Ranger and do endgame stuff because I can dodge THAT well..." then he's also smart enough to realize that anyone who MyDDO's him is going to have some serious questions about his sanity. He'd have said something up front. Whenever I apply to a raid or serious PUG, I always send a TELL to the groupleader explaining my build when I apply with my Wizard 12 / Fighter 6 / Rogue 2 Pale Master tank. And a guy with 280 HP at level 20 probably looks even goofier to your average PUG leader than that set of class levels does.

The only reasonable assumption is that the guy is an idjit.

[sirgog]

The only way somebody like that is surviving is to either (1) do no DPS, in which case decline him, or (2) run around like a cheerleader in a B-grade horror flick. In which case, decline him, /squelch him, and shoot his dog.

/shudder.

+1 for making me laugh.

The only way they could be a useful party member in elite Sins with 280hp is if they had enough AC to be almost untouchable, which (IIRC) is in the low or mid 80s in elite Amrath.

Anyone that can achieve a ~83 AC would know the merits of HP.

[Faent]

The only reasonable assumption is that the guy is an idjit.

No. Just clueless. That's why you pull them into your run if you can. It'll be an educational experience for them. And hopefully they'll learn something from it. If they don't learn anything, then yes, they're idgits. But you shouldn't assume that everyone who doesn't know what they're doing is an idjit. If you assume that, you're the idjit.

[LordPiglet]

If they weren't unguilded it would depend on their guild. I might take them along just to see how they did if I knew the rest of the team could handle it. I might do it just as a teaching point. It would honestly depend on my mood.

I know at 495 I solo sins normal, but I'm also displacing and bluring myself etc. (so no rage or madstone).

I've also hit some rough spots where I've been under 100 hp finishing off a mob (forgot to displace myself).

[exvanguard]

my lvl 17 cleric is sitting at 415 hp's and I haven't taken toughness yet.... if he wasn't declined, I would be happy to make room in my backpack for him

[Anthios888]

I'd take them. Everyone needs to die 22 times in a quest -- at least once -- so they can get the wake up call! We all have to consider whether there might be a few areas of their that can use some work as we go into new content.

And, judging by the MyDDO, they probably need those Yugoloth pots as much as anyone!

Does that make me a good person or a bad person?

[Vellrad]

If they have less HP then the caster or healer .... not only would I decline I would maybe ask him if he needs help fixing his character

What if caster got 500+ HP?
I know a lot of meeles with 400-450 HP max

[Quikster]

I loved when ddo turned into do as much dps as possible instead of knowing when and how to control agro. I'd take that ranger anytime.

And I would take him because i dont use myddo to screen, he would die, we would complete, everyone would be happy.

[rheincan]

The sadness in the question is why are you asking the hit points of a character when you put a lfm? If the ranger wants to play with 280 HP, that's his problem not yours.

We know that an elven ranger will not have a lot of HP but the points are done somewhere maybe in strength or in dexterity and that means he must be good at the group while doing his job.

If you run Sins of Attrition in elite, you will more need a good healer and not a dumber who lets his companion dying (sorry that's easy) and a good leader.

The greatest challenge in this game isn't playing with a group of friends or very well stuffed players but with a pug or a group with random players and succeeding a hard quest.

The most beautiful encounters are those when you discover new players or guys you don't usually meet when you go in this game.

The greatest achievement is when you have a tell for thanking you of leading a raid or a quest of flagging a little bit difficult such as quests in amrath, not running the 20th Tower of despair or the 30th epic dragon.

[ColdNapalm]

If you run Sins of Attrition in elite, you will more need a good healer and not a dumber who lets his companion dying (sorry that's easy) and a good leader.

Sorry...WHAT?!? No...and big old HELL NO. A cleric maybe the healer, but a fighter character who has less HP then the WIZARDS and none of the wizard's nifty defenses is not gonna be kept up by the healer and that is NOT the healer's fault. Yes a healer should TRY to keep everyone alive...but they are not responsible for stupid.