Healers Are 2nd Class Citizens

[Gorbadoc]

My previous post was meant as a joke, but the OP's gripe about people demanding healing is sometimes legitimate. My serious advice: turn a PUG into an exercise in operant conditioning.

The basic theory is this: Players don't like having low hit points. Not only that, but if they have low hit points, they have a sustained visual cue that they've been taking damage. I know, it sounds silly, but some players genuinely don't seem to notice when they've been hit by a club the size of a tree. If players are left at low health, their tendency is to get hit less. The trick is to keep them alive, but without ever refilling their hitpoint bars.

But wait, there's more! You do want the bad players to attack; you just don't want them to be stupid about it. Here's where the operant conditioning comes in: You watch how people play, and you reward competent play by keeping those players' hitpoint bars full. As the underperforming players play more conservatively, you reward their caution by eventually refilling their hitpoints as well.

If you're ever unsure who is playing poorly and who is taking smart risks, a good rule of thumb is to follow your mana. Good players will take damage if it means nailing a dangerous opponent quickly, but they won't do so constantly. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt in the form of a free heal once in a while, and just keep count.

This strategy will occasionally lead to one of the over-aggressive players complaining that you're not doing a good enough job healing them. At this point, comments about how you're not their mother are the standard response if you wish to be rude. My personal favorite is to act innocent, though: "Oh, dear. I'm sorry! I naturally assumed you WANTED to be at low health, what with how recklessly you've been playing." This draws attention to the simple fact of the matter: You don't care whether they zerg, but you personally will not assume responsibility for the damage they suffer while zerging.

I hope this helps. It definitely helps me keep my sanity when I PUG as a healer.

[azrael4h]

Originally Posted by LadyLastTouch View Post
Healers (Cleric or Fvs) are treated as 2nd class citizens in DDO. Why? Most items in chest and other sources are beneficial to fighter types but hardly ever useful for healer classes.

Clerics and Favored Souls both have 3/4BAB and decent hp. Most items in chests are just as usable to them as anyone else.

Healer class usually spend their own funds (supplies, wands, etc.) to maintain the zeal of the rest of any party.

Pretty much everyone has to buy their own supplies. Period. Only the very new and the very dumb do not invest in potions and the like, wands and scrolls if they can use them. I've seen Barbarians whip out a Rez scroll and stop a potential wipe in HoX before. A purely useless Divine (also known as a healbot) shouldn't have many item repairs either, while most everyone else will.

Healers tend to be squishy and frequently spent a lot of effort just staying alive rather than healing. Right, right right, play something else if you are unhappy.

My Favored Soul at level 15 has 400hp, and has never ran Shroud, much less gotten a GS hp item. A Warforged FvS could have about 30 more hp than me as well, presuming the same gear. My Cleric is kinda low at 380hp @ level 18, but she's an Elf (no raid gear at all either, I have terrible luck pulling good items). Had I the experience I do now, I'd have probably gone Human, so she'd have been at least at 400 just on the CON difference. I expect around 450hp from my Cleric after getting a GS hp item, and my final levels; while my FvS will break 500. An experienced/geared player should and probably will get higher than that.

Some even tack on saves and Evasion with a Monk splash. I see more Clerics like this than FvS, but then FvS gets a hefty boost at level 20, compared to Cleric.

Squishy is a playstyle, not a Class or even a Race. If your Cleric is squishy, then you built it wrong. Same goes for your Elf, your Sorcerer, your Drow, and your Goat.

Perhaps if healers stop healing the game would take some notice - is that the plan???

Perhaps you need to realize that there isn't a class called Healer in DDO, at all. Period. When you create a character, there are no options to select a Healer class.

There are Clerics and Favored Souls, which are Divine casters, and Bards which are more of an Arcane caster with access to many Cure spells. Also Paladins and Rangers get access to some Cure spells and Paladin even has a couple of class abilities that heal. Rogues and Bards can more easily get the UMD to use Heal scrolls than any other class, but again I've seen Barbarians using Heal scrolls before. Had one prevent a wipe in HoX during a bad spot where both Clerics got killed. Sorcerers often have excellent UMD as well, due to their use of CHA as their casting stat.

Whats more, these classes can be built to melee very effectively. Favored souls in particular are excellent in this role, due to inherent DR10/something (only what, 3 classes get this inherently?) and class Toughness enhancements (the only class that gets them that isn't a pure warrior-type). Warforged can get even higher DR and more hp.

TY to Phidius for breaking this up into readable form.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I thought healers were the upper class of DDO society.

You know, having to spend a greater portion of their hard earned plat to support those who make no effort to support themselves.

[hityawithastick]

Pale master is confused as to how this is a suggestion.

The only suggestion he sees is the everpresent suggestion of "flay me and make me a zombie."

[Vissarion]

My previous post was meant as a joke, but the OP's gripe about people demanding healing is sometimes legitimate. My serious advice: turn a PUG into an exercise in operant conditioning.

The basic theory is this: Players don't like having low hit points. Not only that, but if they have low hit points, they have a sustained visual cue that they've been taking damage. I know, it sounds silly, but some players genuinely don't seem to notice when they've been hit by a club the size of a tree. If players are left at low health, their tendency is to get hit less. The trick is to keep them alive, but without ever refilling their hitpoint bars.

But wait, there's more! You do want the bad players to attack; you just don't want them to be stupid about it. Here's where the operant conditioning comes in: You watch how people play, and you reward competent play by keeping those players' hitpoint bars full. As the underperforming players play more conservatively, you reward their caution by eventually refilling their hitpoints as well.

If you're ever unsure who is playing poorly and who is taking smart risks, a good rule of thumb is to follow your mana. Good players will take damage if it means nailing a dangerous opponent quickly, but they won't do so constantly. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt in the form of a free heal once in a while, and just keep count.

This strategy will occasionally lead to one of the over-aggressive players complaining that you're not doing a good enough job healing them. At this point, comments about how you're not their mother are the standard response if you wish to be rude. My personal favorite is to act innocent, though: "Oh, dear. I'm sorry! I naturally assumed you WANTED to be at low health, what with how recklessly you've been playing." This draws attention to the simple fact of the matter: You don't care whether they zerg, but you personally will not assume responsibility for the damage they suffer while zerging.

I hope this helps. It definitely helps me keep my sanity when I PUG as a healer.

Heh, I love the idea of treating pugs as subjects of behavioral modification. I can see it now: "BF Skinner's Guide to DDO."

+1

[Arlith]

Wooh, rate the classes! This is fun. Okay, here's my list:

1. Monk
2. Cleric/FvS (they're distinct classes, but whatever; these ratings are strictly for entertainment purposes)
3. Bard
4. Twinked-out melee wizard
5. Rogue (the kind who bothers to have hit points)
6. Twinked-out melees
7. "Regular" arcanes
8. Non-twinked melees (with Paladin leading among them, thanks to Holy Sword)
9. Druids (they don't exist yet, but they still deserve their place on the list!)
10. The PUGs with whom the OP was running
11. Rogue (the kind specced for PnP)

My changes to your list:

1. Druids (they don't exist yet, but they still deserve their place on the list!)Monk
2. Sorc
3. Arcane Trickster Archmage (Enchantment)
4. Cleric/FvS (they're distinct classes, but whatever; these ratings are strictly for entertainment purposes)
5. Rogue (the kind who bothers to have hit points)
6. Twinked-out melees
7. Monk
8. Non-twinked melees (with Paladin leading among them, thanks to Holy Sword)
9. Bard
10. The PUGs with whom the OP was running
11. Rogue (the kind specced for PnP)

[Dandonk]

Healer class? Haven't seen that one, yet. Is it a new one just out that I haven't purchased yet?

[Memnir]

My cleric isn't second class, second rate, or second fiddle. I don't spend any reasourses in PUGs that I don't want to, and really don't feel squishy at all. Plus, I have no shortage of gear I want to loot and can make use of from chests.

I'm sorry you feel yours is second class, but please don't lump all us "healers" into one bag.

[BrightAsh]

I feel like you have been in some lousy groups OP. I play a healer and it is loads of fun. It never costs me money coz most groups ask for a pot count after running a raid. They refund back the major pods you used. Furthermore i use load of healscrolls... but really, they dont cost so much if you see how long you can go along with a stack of 100 scrolls.

As for the squishy part.. That might be a build mistake (did that too on my first cleric...). Dont dump con And stay out of the fight OR stand right in the middle and quicken heal/cure on yourself. Since a cleric heals, i never really had the problem of squishyness.

As for the gear, i might agree with you some more.. The great gear comes at later levels and is rare (as is all great gear thank god), but on the bright side, not much healers in a group, so any healer gear that drops is bount to be yours! But with 20 runs of Hound, you've got some decent gear (if you dont have a Lorrik's set then, you are in some bad luck). Add some GS and you're stacked. Allthough i can't come up with lower level gear fitted for healers, but that might just be me.

[PNellesen]

Allthough i can't come up with lower level gear fitted for healers, but that might just be me.

Just off the top of my head from what I used for quite a while:

Some Korthos Gear (Archivist's Necklace in particular)
Chronoscope (Full/Lesser Might of the Abishai set)
Red Fens sets (Sacred Band/Sacred Helm in particular)
Lordsmarch/Attack on Stormreach sets (Teraza's Sight, Katra's Wit)
Reaver's Fate (Napkin, Gauntlets of Eternity, Dreamspitter, others)

I'm sure there's plenty more that I just never looted.

[bryanmeerkat]

My Cleric is god . I am the only member of the party that matters . I am why we do well . Sure if I have to do the DPS myself it will take longer but ill still get the job done , but if you stand in my aura while I hit this stuff then i really dont need to worry about you staying up .

Clerics and FVS are gods and if you are not a god when on your FVS or Cleric its because you suck .

[BrightAsh]

Just off the top of my head from what I used for quite a while:

Some Korthos Gear (Archivist's Necklace in particular)
Chronoscope (Full/Lesser Might of the Abishai set)
Red Fens sets (Sacred Band/Sacred Helm in particular)
Lordsmarch/Attack on Stormreach sets (Teraza's Sight, Katra's Wit)
Reaver's Fate (Napkin, Gauntlets of Eternity, Dreamspitter, others)

I'm sure there's plenty more that I just never looted.

You are right.. it is me

My Cleric is god . I am the only member of the party that matters . I am why we do well . Sure if I have to do the DPS myself it will take longer but ill still get the job done , but if you stand in my aura while I hit this stuff then i really dont need to worry about you staying up .

Clerics and FVS are gods and if you are not a god when on your FVS or Cleric its because you suck.

What Bryan meant to say is: Clerics and FVS are gods and if you are not a god when on your FVS or Cleric its because you're build could be somehwat better.

[bryanmeerkat]

You are right.. it is me



What Bryan meant to say is: Clerics and FVS are gods and if you are not a god when on your FVS or Cleric its because you're build could be somehwat better.

Hehe ,yeah that was a bit of a megalomaniacal rant there .

[Bodic]

if healers stop healing the game would take some notice

Your right some as in some content namely Shroud,VOD,TOD.

I know my FvS as I lvl'd did Melee/Casting for the greater part, and little babysitting.

Edit: All content in Game can be completed W/O a Cleric or FvS babysitting U.

[RenigadeWolf]

While quite new to healing; seeing as i would make a terrible babysitter :P i now have a Favored Soul who can melee great, yet still keep a party on its feet, mind you it is /my/ healing, so if someone is running off and trying to waste that power, they get a free ride in my pocket. I can easily manage to get through just about everything, have near 600 SP and over 150 HP at level 6... I think you might be doing it wrong OP, you should be dominating the group with your presence, not the other way around.

[FlyingTurtle]

The DDO Healer's oath is kind of like the reverse Hippocratic Oath:

"If they suck, help them die faster."

Now you know why you can't unmemorize Cure Light Wounds.

[Gorbadoc]

My changes to your list:

1. Druids (they don't exist yet, but they still deserve their place on the list!)

Yeah, I was going to put druids in last place, because what could be more useless than a nonexistent character? Then I remembered.

Heh, I love the idea of treating pugs as subjects of behavioral modification. I can see it now: "BF Skinner's Guide to DDO."

+1

Hehe. Well, there's more to it than that, especially if you want to lead a party of noobs. :-)

[augie]

This topic is soooooo 2006.