Open-Source DDO

[Lornman]

What kind of cockamamie word is opensourceddo? No, just no.

[Drakos]

Apparently you have never owned your business. You have any idea the investment Turbine has put to keep this game alive? You have any idea how many contractual agreements are on this game to keep the revenues up? Why would they give away their source code? Your argument makes no business sense whatsoever.

This doesn't even mention the fact the WotC would likely pull the licensing from Turbin if they made this Open Source. The licensing agreement is the only thing allowing Turbin to use the IP that belongs to WotC, and even the Open Gamming License would not allow it.

[Tobril]

An interesting thing I’ve noticed about the open source kids is
that all they ever do with their “superior” OS is fiddle with it.

This is like the guys that spend all their time working on a car
that only runs one day out of the month.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

This doesn't even mention the fact the WotC would likely pull the licensing from Turbin if they made this Open Source. The licensing agreement is the only thing allowing Turbin to use the IP that belongs to WotC, and even the Open Gamming License would not allow it.

You are correct. With the legal rift between Atari and Turbine, the last thing Turbine would do is give Atari any excuse to take away the license. WotC doesn't license directly with Turbine. Unless things have changed recently, WotC does all their video game licensing through Atari.

[damoose88]

I have already said no on this thread and given the OP - Rep for his suggestion, but I am now wondering if suggesting Turbine throw away everything they own and have worked long and hard for, is even allowed on these Forums?

I'm not suggesting they throw away everything they own. They still own the rights to the game. They still have the final say in what is included or not included. The only difference is that they players can help develop it. They can submit patches and bug-fixes and develop the game for other operating systems. They can still suggest new features (like they've been doing) and they can still tell Turbine when they come across a bug (like they've been doing), however, Turbine won't be the only one having to work on this. Turbine can still develop the core code while allowing the players to design new adventures, classes, gear, PVP systems, etc. In the end, it's less work for them and a better game for the players. Moreover, I already explained how they could continue to profit if they did this -- if $5 a month is too low for them to profit then they could easily increase it to $10 a month and still keep it affordable for the players. Moreover, they would also have access to a free development force, which they could motivate even more by offering discounted rates or a free 3-6 months or so to players who submit accepted code.

With all due respect, Kriss, I'll shut up when I see an official Turbine rep tell me no.

[damoose88]

You are correct. With the legal rift between Atari and Turbine, the last thing Turbine would do is give Atari any excuse to take away the license. WotC doesn't license directly with Turbine. Unless things have changed recently, WotC does all their video game licensing through Atari.

I don't know what licenses and agreements Turbine has with which companies, nor what the agreement in the contract was, I was merely trying to suggest a way to make the game better while allowing the company to make more money.

[Kaeldur]

Everyone else. You're assuming that every single programmer in the world is going to want to exploit this game, when, in fact, most of them want a fun, fair, enjoyable game like everyone else. I'm not saying there won't be some people who will try to exploit it, however, there will be others who won't and who will be able to prevent exploitation. Moreover, the core developers (the company itself) will be the only ones who will decide what code is included and what code won't be included -- no different than the early days of Linux when the hackers developed the code and sent their code to Linus, who would then release the updated source.

You only need 1 to ruin it for everyone else.

As far as someone coming along and opening up shop with their own version of this game -- so what? If a new company enters the market with a better product, and are able to demonstrate the superiority of the product, the people will go to the new company. If someone develops a better version of this game, regardless of whether or not they have access to the source code, people will play that game instead. People switch MMOs all the time because they find a game they like better. If the developers release the source to the game to the players (people who already enjoy playing the game), the players can then develop it and make the game they already enjoy even better.

Tell me again where in any point is this good for Turbine?

We don't need Private Servers of DDO... It can also ruin the game's image because game experience in Private Servers is usually tainted and a person can base their opinion on the game from playing on a Private Server while it's a completely different experience on the Official (legal) server.



/notsigned

Sorry. I would love to develop stuff for DDO, as I, myself, am a game dev. But not like this, Turbine is a company and they need to make money. And I hope they do, because I would hate to have DDO close down because of lack of revenue.

A much better suggestion that's been put up is allow players to create and submit content... It's been well formulated and is somewhere around, lazy to find a link right now...

[damoose88]

This doesn't even mention the fact the WotC would likely pull the licensing from Turbin if they made this Open Source. The licensing agreement is the only thing allowing Turbin to use the IP that belongs to WotC, and even the Open Gamming License would not allow it.

I wasn't aware of the licensing issues, I just thought I would suggest applying a model that has worked very well in other industries, including the gaming industry, to this game. If it can't be done for legal reasons, then so be it.

[Drakos]

Why do you only quote one sentence separate from the context of the statement in its entirety? I have never owned my own business but I'm not stupid -- I'm fully aware Turbine has spent a lot of money in this game. However, if someone releases a clone of this game (which has been done legally, just look at Pac-Man and Tetris) and releases the source of the code to that clone, Turbine would run into some very serious problems very quickly. Turbine made a great game, but it still has plenty of room for improvement. WB's acquisition of Turbine gave Turbine access to a very large financial repository, but it can only do so much. The players know what they want, obviously, and by opening up the source, they players can build exactly what they want and submit it directly to Turbine, who would decide whether or not to add it. Open-sourcing does not take away any power from Turbine, it gives a lot of power to the players, and it gives Turbine access to a volunteer labor force that would do Turbine's work for them. This model makes great business sense and it would be even better if it were applied to a game like Dungeons and Dragons.

And it gives the not so altruistic people out there every bit of information they would need to create, Bots, Trainers, Hacks, Exploits, etc... and release it upon the world. This would KILL the game. Just look at Open Battlenet (mentioned above) it would turn DDO into that.

Fisrt, talented "hackers" would be able to hide backdoors and worms and such into the code they submitted. If Turbin missed just ONE of thes hidden items then the hacker could have unlimited access to the game servers, which you do realize that includes the account servers, you know the ones that hold everyons credit card data. Look at the Offer Wall feiasco from last year and multiply the ramifications by at least 100.

Secondly, even without inserting malicious code into the game itself, the Hackers would now have access to the communication protocalls and be able to hijack them, piggyback onto them, packet sniffing, enabling them to get peoples login information. There is way too much that would be open and could be made virtually undetectable to Turbin.

Finally, you say "so what if another company produces a clone". You may not think it is a big deal, but I will guarentee that Turbin thinks it is a huge deal, so does WB and their stockholders. Like it or not as a proprietory system they will stay alive, what you suggest would kill the game.

No, not everyone that gets the source will use iy maliciously, but it only takes one to kill the dream.

[Mr_Tank]

I think the wall was a better idea that this. And we all remember what a disaster that was.
/not signed

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

The players know what they want, obviously

Again, you must not have have never heard the computer age adage "none of us is as stupid as all of us." A user/player-driven game would be a terrible, terrible idea (at least for the multiplayer games, single-player games it's a whole different animal). You need to prioritize, estimate, cost vs. benefit, etc. things that are not possible to do effectively on a multi-player-driven development.

As for what happens when another studio comes about and opens up shop to compete with them? They can't. Turbine has contractual stipulations to have MMO-exclusivity for which they pay a lot of money.

[Drakos]

I don't know what licenses and agreements Turbine has with which companies, nor what the agreement in the contract was, I was merely trying to suggest a way to make the game better while allowing the company to make more money.

There is NO way on this earth that your suggestion would help Turbin make more money.

[damoose88]

And it gives the not so altruistic people out there every bit of information they would need to create, Bots, Trainers, Hacks, Exploits, etc... and release it upon the world. This would KILL the game. Just look at Open Battlenet (mentioned above) it would turn DDO into that.

Fisrt, talented "hackers" would be able to hide backdoors and worms and such into the code they submitted. If Turbin missed just ONE of thes hidden items then the hacker could have unlimited access to the game servers, which you do realize that includes the account servers, you know the ones that hold everyons credit card data. Look at the Offer Wall feiasco from last year and multiply the ramifications by at least 100.

Secondly, even without inserting malicious code into the game itself, the Hackers would now have access to the communication protocalls and be able to hijack them, piggyback onto them, packet sniffing, enabling them to get peoples login information. There is way too much that would be open and could be made virtually undetectable to Turbin.

Finally, you say "so what if another company produces a clone". You may not think it is a big deal, but I will guarentee that Turbin thinks it is a huge deal, so does WB and their stockholders. Like it or not as a proprietory system they will stay alive, what you suggest would kill the game.

No, not everyone that gets the source will use iy maliciously, but it only takes one to kill the dream.

Fair enough.

[EyeRekon]

Its a nice wish. But Turbine didn't invest so much capital, raise funds, accept buyouts in order to fund the development of DDO to just give it away.

Furthermore, projects that go from Closed-to-Open source reveal a lot of dirty laundry in the codebase and commit logs.

The threat of competition from other teams of developers who can do a far better job is too real. Don't like Turbine's direction? Hear comes Real DDO! Back to true-to-rules gameplay. AC works again! No blanket immunities, etc.

The closest thing I can think of that Turbine might extend is a build-your-own Adventure Pack (think like a mobile phone app). You design your own areas and quests, loot, XP, favor. It gets approved and sold, you get a revenue share of sales.

[dragonmane]

An interesting thing I’ve noticed about the open source kids is
that all they ever do with their “superior” OS is fiddle with it.

This is like the guys that spend all their time working on a car
that only runs one day out of the month.

That is called Nascar isnt it?? lol

[Tobril]

That is called Nascar isnt it?? lol

Haha nice, +1

I was actually thinking of the guys in high school that were going
to pick up every chick in town with their bad-ass ride…except they
never finished the car…(or painted it, etc)