TOD Kiting

[oberon131313]

One question...

With GS Tier III cold absorbtion item, and fire shield (Cold) up, and quickened reconstructs....

Can a WF wizard just stand there shield blocking and not kite at all?

You'd want fire shield (fire) since that is a 50% reduction in cold damage. Fire shield (cold) reduces fire damage.

As to the main question, personally have never tried it, but fire shield (fire), cold absorb iii, exceptional cold resist item, icy potion of frostbite, and protection: cold should allow a decently hit-pointed wf wizard with quickened reconstructs to sit them in a firewall.

[Khurse]

You (with the gear) absolutely can tank them on Normal. You'd have to be decent (and probably have a lot of HP's) on hard, and could maybe do it on elite with alot of lucky die rolls.

The secret (as mentioned) is simply cold reduction gear.
With a GS item, Frostbite pot,Fire Shield,Cold resist (and I think I'm forgetting something..maybe not) on normal I only take 20 Hps give or take (that can be a big give or take though, I've been hit for 60+) getting hit by an aura.
I've actually lapped the Shadows using Shadow Walk and run through 4 of them to see if I would live.
(This is on a Human PM,with Death Aura up)

On elite I get hit for more of the 60-80 HP type hits with the same gear. I also think I've been hit for over 100 and as low as 40.
(I try and get hit less on elite, so I'm not as sure of the damage numbers)

[TheDearLeader]

Guide to Kiting Tower of Despair, Part 2.

Guide I wrote a while back. Goes over a lot of the buffs/items that can come into play, also gives multiple videos of how to do so. Also a bit of discussion into the nature of standing in place and self-healing/being healed. Check it out. If you like it, hit the Rep button, or better yet, upload and add a video of your own for me to post on the front page.

[Four20]

One question...

With GS Tier III cold absorbtion item, and fire shield (Cold) up, and quickened reconstructs....

Can a WF wizard just stand there shield blocking and not kite at all?

Not exactly sure the process he went through, but there's a Sorc on Orien that 'tanks' the shadows instead of kiting them. I know he uses what you mentioned as well as the Risia games icy pots and 1 or 2 other things(i can't recall off the top of my head)

[Shade]

A fully geared WF wiz could actually quite easily tank a dozen of them or so, the aura tics pretty slow when you stand still. A WF sorc could do it without even trying.

Problem would be acquiring all the agro, as if you stand still its hard to see or target thru all the shadows lol, so you might miss some.

I actually could heal thru 3 of them with no cold absorbtion whatsoever. Tho I had to use reco + repair crit.

Youd likely need full gear tho, superior mending, full repair spec, triple cold absorption, fire shield. Probably wouldnt need the icy potion tho. Tho i'd make it a joke.

I don't get why casters are called upon to do this so often anyways. The are tied for the slowest running class, so to me they seem rather non-ideal.

Are most melee or ranged players really so inept that they cant use a throwing weapon or bow? It works just the same as a firewall as long as your quick on your toes and hit tab a bit as you run around.

Or even favored souls, blade barrier works the same, but they have wings and better healing encase of mistakes.

I dunno, it just seems like the old sheep mentality to me, a caster does it succesfully a bit on the first few succcessful runs, and everyone asumes thats the best way to do it.

It really isn't. It's much easier, and thus more reliable to have someone with more run speed do it.

I guess ideal would be a fvs with barb splash for more run speed. Or caster with barb lvl. As having a persistant aoe can make it easier if your not fast enough to hit stuff as it runs around.

But i see so many groups with a Fvs or skilled enough barb getting the caster to do and wipe i just have to laugh. It's not always ideal.

[grodon9999]

But it gives the caster something to do during a boring tank-and-spank beatdown.

[Khurse]

A fully geared WF wiz could actually quite easily tank a dozen of them or so, the aura tics pretty slow when you stand still. A WF sorc could do it without even trying.

Problem would be acquiring all the agro, as if you stand still its hard to see or target thru all the shadows lol, so you might miss some.

I actually could heal thru 3 of them with no cold absorbtion whatsoever. Tho I had to use reco + repair crit.

Youd likely need full gear tho, superior mending, full repair spec, triple cold absorption, fire shield. Probably wouldnt need the icy potion tho. Tho i'd make it a joke.

I don't get why casters are called upon to do this so often anyways. The are tied for the slowest running class, so to me they seem rather non-ideal.

Are most melee or ranged players really so inept that they cant use a throwing weapon or bow? It works just the same as a firewall as long as your quick on your toes and hit tab a bit as you run around.

Or even favored souls, blade barrier works the same, but they have wings and better healing encase of mistakes.

I dunno, it just seems like the old sheep mentality to me, a caster does it succesfully a bit on the first few succcessful runs, and everyone asumes thats the best way to do it.

It really isn't. It's much easier, and thus more reliable to have someone with more run speed do it.

I guess ideal would be a fvs with barb splash for more run speed. Or caster with barb lvl. As having a persistant aoe can make it easier if your not fast enough to hit stuff as it runs around.

But i see so many groups with a Fvs or skilled enough barb getting the caster to do and wipe i just have to laugh. It's not always ideal.

Your Barb is faster than a Wiz with Shadow Walk?
I mean I know he's good, but...


And your right and wrong, there's no reason if you've got a caster the caster shouldn't do it, (it's perfectly doable on elite with only a haste on a slow moving caster) There's no reason if you've got a Barb who can do it that the barb shouldn't do it.
All things being equal though, I'm willing to bet more casters are equipped and able to do it than Barbs.

[sephiroth1084]

The difference is that someone with a throwing weapon or a bow can roll poorly and miss, or get blocked by a pillar while running, and also is likely not doing enough damage per hit to grab the aggro of a shadow that has made it up the stairs and maybe got hit with some glancing blows or someone's full attacks when their auto-attack, auto-targeting picks up the shadow for a moment.

Also, ranging the shadows seems a lot more easily disrupted by lag.

It works, certainly. I've seen you do it. I've done it on my ranger, and he has no HP to speak of. I tried it on my monk, but wasn't doing enough damage per hit to reliably grab the shadows' aggro.

A favored soul can do it, as they have the speed, but Blade Barrier lasts as long as firewall does, yet takes much longer to cast, which puts you at risk.

Arcane casters are slower, but have a more reliable tool for grabbing aggro. It's a series of trade-offs. Another one is that a caster is kind of mediocre DPS in the fight if they are attacking Nythirios as they can't use many of their spells for fear of grabbing aggro. Meanwhile, you, as one of the top DPSers in the raid, are essentially wasting all that DPS by not attacking the boss. And the entire encounter gets considerably easier the faster it concludes.

[sephiroth1084]

Your Barb is faster than a Wiz with Shadow Walk?
I mean I know he's good, but...

With Sprint Boost running? Yeah, he is. It's an entirely different experience, as with Sprint Boost, even Sprint I, you're often so far ahead of the shadows you can afford to turn around and see where they are.

Still, it wouldn't be my first choice.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

I posted this guide in my guild's forums a while back, but I can see how anyone can benefit:

Since Turbine added a mechanic where the whole raid can fail because of any one given character (in this case casters) we are usually under a lot of pressure to get this right (do right or die). Which while I'm aware it's just a game, it sucks when there's so much weight on any one's shoulders. So, after all the runs with both of my casters, I have it down to a science -- almost. There's other methods, to be sure, and if you happen to be a WF, well you can be as careless as you choose to be But for the fleshlings, here's how I do it (map and then explanations below):



Buffs you need: Cold resist, Cold Protect, Fireshield (fire version), haste, rage.

1. The black line in the map is the no-fly zone (i.e. that will start the sequence timer).
2. The first thing you need to know is that you care not one bit about dmg dealt, you only care about aggro. To this end, I've found very helpful to lay a fog (any fog) spell at the base of the stairs where the shadowmaster is waiting (the green oval).
3. Then when after you get your DI from cleric and the "go" from group, dash toward the shadowmaster and cast a firewall (yellow line) anywhere from the very last step of the stairs to the Shadowmaster's feet. Then immediately dash toward initial waiting point (marked with a 'W') and stop there. Wait until the Shadowfiends get your aggro and are turning to you.
4. Cast a scroll of Shadow Walk on yourself (can be purchased in the portable hole).
5. Follow the path laid by the white arrows.
6. Every time you come a full circle Jump on the stairs (marked with a 'J') and then jump off on the other side.
7. Clean, rinse, repeat.

One thing to bear in mind is that (I have this thing timed) extended firewall will run out after two full circles. So, when you are about to jump on the stairs the second time, target the shadowmaster and cast a firewall on top of him (horizontally). This will break your shadowwalk spell, but fret not, just cast it on yourself again and keep the mad dash till shadowmaster is dead Just to be clear, the waiting point W is only wait point the very first time. After you have the initial aggro, you do not stop for anything -- period. If you stop to cast a spell or cast a rez or whatever, you're usually as good as dead.

[transtemporal]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet but make sure the shadows can actually see you when they hit your firewall. If they can't, they'll ignore you and go for the party which kinda defeats the purpose of kiting.

Also on the wf tanking method, Jenix on Argo does it with the cold absorb item, fireshield and an icy potion. Thats enough to reduce the cold aura to manageable levels (with the caveat that that toon has near 600hp) but there was some other thing he mentioned that made it tricky. Can't remember what it was.

[voodoogroves]

Hmmm. Tanking could be fun. My Wizard sits at 507-ish in Lich form. Buffs on that, likely enough to tank w/ various other procs.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet but make sure the shadows can actually see you when they hit your firewall. If they can't, they'll ignore you and go for the party which kinda defeats the purpose of kiting.
.

Indeed. In the map I made (above), I signal the area where people should wait before dashing off. It's very important to wait until aggro is established else is all for naught.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Hmmm. Tanking could be fun. My Wizard sits at 507-ish in Lich form. Buffs on that, likely enough to tank w/ various other procs.

I would not recommend trying it unless it's a guild group and they know ahead of time you're gonna try it. The Shdows hit like a truck and very often. I've only seen it successfully done with a 90+ AC melee. Even at 500HP with cold absorption and fire shield they hit for 40-60 x 3 (if you're standing). Multiply that by 2 or 3 and you can be dead before you get a chance to cast the next quickened repair.

[mws2970]

I posted this guide in my guild's forums a while back, but I can see how anyone can benefit:

Since Turbine added a mechanic where the whole raid can fail because of any one given character (in this case casters) we are usually under a lot of pressure to get this right (do right or die). Which while I'm aware it's just a game, it sucks when there's so much weight on any one's shoulders. So, after all the runs with both of my casters, I have it down to a science -- almost. There's other methods, to be sure, and if you happen to be a WF, well you can be as careless as you choose to be But for the fleshlings, here's how I do it (map and then explanations below):



Buffs you need: Cold resist, Cold Protect, Fireshield (fire version), haste, rage.

1. The black line in the map is the no-fly zone (i.e. that will start the sequence timer).
2. The first thing you need to know is that you care not one bit about dmg dealt, you only care about aggro. To this end, I've found very helpful to lay a fog (any fog) spell at the base of the stairs where the shadowmaster is waiting (the green oval).
3. Then when after you get your DI from cleric and the "go" from group, dash toward the shadowmaster and cast a firewall (yellow line) anywhere from the very last step of the stairs to the Shadowmaster's feet. Then immediately dash toward initial waiting point (marked with a 'W') and stop there. Wait until the Shadowfiends get your aggro and are turning to you.
4. Cast a scroll of Shadow Walk on yourself (can be purchased in the portable hole).
5. Follow the path laid by the white arrows.
6. Every time you come a full circle Jump on the stairs (marked with a 'J') and then jump off on the other side.
7. Clean, rinse, repeat.

One thing to bear in mind is that (I have this thing timed) extended firewall will run out after two full circles. So, when you are about to jump on the stairs the second time, target the shadowmaster and cast a firewall on top of him (horizontally). This will break your shadowwalk spell, but fret not, just cast it on yourself again and keep the mad dash till shadowmaster is dead Just to be clear, the waiting point W is only wait point the very first time. After you have the initial aggro, you do not stop for anything -- period. If you stop to cast a spell or cast a rez or whatever, you're usually as good as dead.

+1 to you for the map and excellent kiting tips.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

+1 to you for the map and excellent kiting tips.

Thanks! But just for the sake of giving credit, I took the raw map image from ddowiki. I then added the overlay arrows and such.

[transtemporal]

Indeed. In the map I made (above), I signal the area where people should wait before dashing off. It's very important to wait until aggro is established else is all for naught.

I place firewalls like this at the start: -\-/- then wait in the middle so the shadow on the right side can see me before I dash off. If you're on the extreme left of the map, sometimes the stairs occlude the right shadows sightline such that he won't see you before you run off.

Plus if I stand in the middle taunting them, it looks tougher.

[Hounder]

Gonna list down what I currently have while tanking to make things less abusive to the eye!
-Drow fleshie palemaster
-496 hp is what I can attain currently unless I get better eq but I believe 330+ is enough
-45% cold absorption eq
-Fireshield (fire)
-Epic robe of shadows (12% crit means death aura crits more and you can negative energy burst less)
-Maximize, empower, quicken, extend are on while heighten is off as it down contribute to healing and just makes your heals cost more! D: (you can do without empower if you didn't take it or extend if you've learnt to live without it)
And that's it! What I use to tank on normal- never tried elite
You can do it with less or more as long as it works!

Now the how to part:
-When everyones ready, run to base of stairs, fully buffed and equipped with whatever you have and put down firewall on th stairs.
-Party runs past you into position while you double check you have the necessities
-Shadows arrive, pass you, into fwall and then back to you
-With buffs and equipment their aura hits for 50-60 every 2 seconds if I remember right, with death aura on some of this is back almost immediately
-Negative energy burst when you're about 200 hp down from full (my burst heals about 170 I think) basically you have to decide this part yourself. If you have more hp you can heal less as your aura will keep you up for quite awhile I think, if you have less hp then heal more
-Do not move/jump as doing that is like running into a blade barrier again and again (you take damage every few seconds when standing still, even more if you move)
-Replenish your firewalls (could use a few tips here myself! I always manually target the staircase and fwall but once the shadows arrive they block my view! so far I've never had to place more than 2- once at start, second when shadows depart. But what if I'm in a group with slow dps and need more?)

And tadaa part 2 complete! Sure it requires more from the player eq wise but tanking is more reliable than kiting in the sense that you eliminate 'randomness'. When shadows suddenly appear in one of the corridors you're passing even the best might not react well to it.
Tanking allows you to be in full control the entire time ensuring a 100% success.
*Disclaimer: only works on normal and hard! I'll update when I get to do elite or someone else can update it! I'm sure it's been done before

[voodoogroves]

Gonna list down what I currently have while tanking to make things less abusive to the eye!
-Drow fleshie palemaster
-496 hp is what I can attain currently unless I get better eq but I believe 330+ is enough
-45% cold absorption eq
-Fireshield (fire)
-Epic robe of shadows (12% crit means death aura crits more and you can negative energy burst less)
-Maximize, empower, quicken, extend are on while heighten is off as it down contribute to healing and just makes your heals cost more! D: (you can do without empower if you didn't take it or extend if you've learnt to live without it)
And that's it! What I use to tank on normal- never tried elite
You can do it with less or more as long as it works!

Now the how to part:
-When everyones ready, run to base of stairs, fully buffed and equipped with whatever you have and put down firewall on th stairs.
-Party runs past you into position while you double check you have the necessities
-Shadows arrive, pass you, into fwall and then back to you
-With buffs and equipment their aura hits for 50-60 every 2 seconds if I remember right, with death aura on some of this is back almost immediately
-Negative energy burst when you're about 200 hp down from full (my burst heals about 170 I think) basically you have to decide this part yourself. If you have more hp you can heal less as your aura will keep you up for quite awhile I think, if you have less hp then heal more
-Do not move/jump as doing that is like running into a blade barrier again and again (you take damage every few seconds when standing still, even more if you move)
-Replenish your firewalls (could use a few tips here myself! I always manually target the staircase and fwall but once the shadows arrive they block my view! so far I've never had to place more than 2- once at start, second when shadows depart. But what if I'm in a group with slow dps and need more?)

And tadaa part 2 complete! Sure it requires more from the player eq wise but tanking is more reliable than kiting in the sense that you eliminate 'randomness'. When shadows suddenly appear in one of the corridors you're passing even the best might not react well to it.
Tanking allows you to be in full control the entire time ensuring a 100% success.
*Disclaimer: only works on normal and hard! I'll update when I get to do elite or someone else can update it! I'm sure it's been done before

This I want to try and may do so. All I need now is to make that cold absorber. My HP is well over 500 buffed, probably pushes near 600 with various temp HP.

I wonder how this would work in conjunction w/ a cloud to ensure you grab aggro...

[sirgog]

When leading ToD, I only ask an arcane to kite if no FvS is available. It's just so much easier on a FvS.

If it's a fleshie arcane doing the kiting, I prefer to put a cleric type in the middle of the six pillars (assuming the caster does full loops of the hexagon). Their job is simple - cast instant-reaction heals on the kiter if they get hit.

But a character with 17+ FvS levels makes this a total joke, especially if they have the UMD (or Red Dragon Helm) to Fireshield: Warm.