Advice on LRing my Cleric

[PNellesen]

Hey guys,

I want to LR my 19/1 Cleric/fighter, mainly to clean up his feats, and to maybe increase his base WIS as well. Current stats/feats/enhancements below (as best I could copy them from DDO into the planner). He was my first character (28pt), so take that into account (Note that his feats as listed aren't in the order I actually took them, I just plugged them into the planner as I went along.)

My LR plan (such as it is) - increase his base WIS to 18, drop STR to 14, and DEX to 8. Lose THF, gain Maximize. All level ups in WIS as well (original build had 1st level up in STR) Possibly drop Improved mental toughness for Heighten.

My question is - is there any real benefit to maxing his WIS like this? Do the increase in SP and DCs make it worthwhile? He has no problems healing, but his blade barrier-fu is weak.

Thanks for any advice/comments.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 1589 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 6
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    26
Charisma              8                    12

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     1
Heal                  3                    10
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  3                     4
Listen                3                     8
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                     8
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mental Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Pape_27]

ability points
raise your wisdom instead of str, it will help with spell pen/dc. The point you put into str can be replaced with a +1 tome.

feats:
dump improved mental toughness and pick up maximize or empower, that will help with the damage output of your bb's.

dump thf and getting improved critical slashing (or bludgeoning, piercing, etc) if you want to maintain a halfway decent melee ability.

skill points:
max concentration, add to balance (and jump, at least to 10). No need to waste skill points on heal



one other thing to consider would be going thru a greater reincarnation instead of a lesser reincarnation. It would bump you up to a 32 point build instead of remaining at 28 points.

[PNellesen]

one other thing to consider would be going thru a greater reincarnation instead of a lesser reincarnation. It would bump you up to a 32 point build instead of remaining at 28 points.

Thanks for the input - those suggestions are almost exactly what I had in mind anyway, nice to get some confirmation.

The main reason I'm LRing him is simply because he's got the Lesser Heart of Wood sitting in the bank gathering dust, so I might as well use it. If I can acquire a Greater Heart, I'll definitely use that as well.

[mraistlin123]

one other thing to consider would be going thru a greater reincarnation instead of a lesser reincarnation. It would bump you up to a 32 point build instead of remaining at 28 points.

i was thinking on LR too but not sure, now this sets my mind. ty for info

[Habreno]

ability points
one other thing to consider would be going thru a greater reincarnation instead of a lesser reincarnation. It would bump you up to a 32 point build instead of remaining at 28 points.

Only if you have 32 point builds will this work as such.


LR as your Cleric, put your boosts into Wisdom. By l20, even on a 28, you should have at least 32 Wisdom (18 base + 3 enhancement + 5 levels + 6 item = 32) or more, if you picked up a tome along the way (don't bother with a +1 unless it evens you out while leveling; it's more useful to have 30 or 28 than it is 29 with a +1 tome... the extra 1 does you absolutely nothing unless it did you good before where it gave you an even number) and crafting GS/making and upgrading Epics can get you the rest of the way (+3 exceptional WIS from GS, +7 item from either an Epic Augment Slot or an upgradable item, +4 tome; all combined can net you 40 WIS before buffs/Completionist feat/stat pots/etc...)

[Pape_27]

Only if you have 32 point builds will this work as such.

Is this true Hab?

when I read about it on wiki, it didnt say anything to that effect.

it says the following:

Greater Reincarnation has the same benefits as Lesser Reincarnation, and additionally will upgrade a 28 point (non-drow) character into a 32 point build character.

--> http://ddowiki.com/page/Reincarnation


Confirmation of this would be nice to get.


_

[Jubbers]

Greater hearts allow you to rebuild your 28 into a 32 as I did that with 1st character, if you also earned 1750 favor. You also keep all tomes with the greater and lesser reincarnations. If you get a +1 heart you can swap out 1 level while a +3 allows you to change up to 3 levels.

[PNellesen]

Thanks for the input, guys. Below is what I've come up with for his respec, using the Character Planner v3.8.1. Full WIS, no loss of CON, replaced THF with Maximize, and added Heighten in place of Improved Mental Toughness - I'm still debating that one, though (am open to suggestions). Had some APs left over after his healing/spellcasting, and thought boosting his critical chances would help improve his results with his Dreamspitter and Rahl's Might as far as helping the melees out.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 1617 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 6
Will: 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity             9                    10
Constitution         13                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma              8                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10.5
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         4                    25
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     1
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  2                     2
Listen                4                     9
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                     9
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble               -0.5                   0.5
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Habreno]

Thanks for the input, guys. Below is what I've come up with for his respec, using the Character Planner v3.8.1. Full WIS, no loss of CON, replaced THF with Maximize, and added Heighten in place of Improved Mental Toughness - I'm still debating that one, though (am open to suggestions). Had some APs left over after his healing/spellcasting, and thought boosting his critical chances would help improve his results with his Dreamspitter and Rahl's Might as far as helping the melees out.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 1542 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 5
Will: 20

Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

If I remember correctly, you don't need to take DV if you have CHA +2 from enhancements for the PRE. That saves 3AP, if you pull out a fourth (possibly Extra Turning) you can pick up the final tier in Energy of the Zealot if you want. If not, you still have 3AP to play with; perhaps take Extra Turning II if that's 2AP and then another 1AP enhancement (Improved Concentration 1 is my recommendation)

If I'm wrong, just ignore me though xD

[tekkentroop]

You need lvl 1 of one of the divine skills for RS I

my comments
-You can skip DV II.
-I wouldnt get Prayer of Incredible Life II and III. Crits will overheal anyway.
-Energy of the Zealot isnt that necessary, id also skip II and III here.

-Where is Human Adaptability? I can understand not taking Versatility but Adaptability-Wisdom is just 4 AP cheaper than cleric wisdom III. Greater Adaptability-Constitution unlocks one more Toughness level if desired.
-If you get any spare AP after changing around, consider extra turning II for more RS action. Its probably worth more than Energy of the Zealot II. (30 mana=mass clw without metas... compare to 1 radiant burst)

[PNellesen]

Hmmm - very interesting suggestions. I played with some of these and posted edited build above. Comments in yellow. With the changes, he doesn't lose any SP, and he gains 30HP. Looking pretty good now

You need lvl 1 of one of the divine skills for RS I

my comments
-You can skip DV II. Good point - at level 20 1 or 2 shots of 25SP isn't going to do much for the casters anyway Removed.
-I wouldnt get Prayer of Incredible Life II and III. Crits will overheal anyway. I took out III - I still like the idea of having double damage on spells like Harm and other negative spells.
-Energy of the Zealot isnt that necessary, id also skip II and III here. Took out III

-Where is Human Adaptability? I can understand not taking Versatility but Adaptability-Wisdom is just 4 AP cheaper than cleric wisdom III. Greater Adaptability-Constitution unlocks one more Toughness level if desired. Wow - can't believe I missed that. Added both, and also the tier III Toughness. That should take him over 400HP now (he currently has 394 with his gear on)
-If you get any spare AP after changing around, consider extra turning II for more RS action. Its probably worth more than Energy of the Zealot II. (30 mana=mass clw without metas... compare to 1 radiant burst) Done

[PNellesen]

I've pretty much worked this out, but I'm stuck on whether or not to get Heighten In place of Improved crit-slash. I've just now started doing Epics, and it seems I'd be more effective with spells like greater command or symbol of suggestion than any melée I might be able to do (other than my Spitter or Rahl's Might). if Heighten can help get his dcs as high as I can get them, I'd much rather take that instead.