minimum charisma?

[azmodeus1]

was going to TR into a 34 pt, past life barb, 16pal/2ftr/2rog using dual kopeshes. i would prefer race: horc or WF, leaning more towards horc...and sinse horcs get penalized on the cha, i am kinda wondering what the lowest i could dump it would be. i think loh, and smites are powered by cha, as well as spell lvls, but im not sure exactly what else.

the purpose of the build is primarily DPS, also only 11 lvls of pal are required for this life so any other split that would be more advantageous, i'd like to hear it.

i do not have access to mnk class yet, still waiting on a sale for that, although i would consider buying it at full price if there was a good enough build to support it.

thanks for any input, im open to any and all ideas.

[Irongutz2000]

I would start with no less than 14 chars+2 tome for divine might 2, also will help with umd, i assume ur gonna take with ur rogue lvls

[Kinerd]

Junts' guide states that paladins get more DPS out of each base Charisma than each base Strength, and I am inclined to agree with it. This suggests that of your preferences warforged makes the most sense.

Also, your spell points, DCs, and (perhaps most important for a paladin) spell level castable are determined by Wisdom. Smite's only use for Charisma is the to-hit bonus, which should be largely irrelevant for you. Divine Might and Lay on Hands are the big ones, and the save bonuses are nice too.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Junts' guide states that paladins get more DPS out of each base Charisma than each base Strength, and I am inclined to agree with it. This suggests that of your preferences warforged makes the most sense.

How does WF make more sense? They have the same starting CHA...

[jsaving]

The most important benefit from a high charisma is access to a higher tier of divine might. Other benefits include better LOH and smites, higher saves (divine grace), more turning attempts (DM uses), and a bigger modifier for intimidate/UMD.

For a DPS build, you'll generally want the lowest possible charisma that lets you access the best divine might you're eligible to take. For a 16-level splash, that will be divine might 3, so you'll want to shoot for an 18 charisma at/near endgame. You could reasonably go as low as 14, with one level-up point and a +3 tome achieving the desired 18.

[azmodeus1]

well i would use at most a +1 tome. probably also take enhancments to up it two more, so im thinking 13 or 15. with a +1 dex tome, dex would still need to be 16, con at least 15 as well...that doesn't leave much for wis/int if i have a decent str.

what umd does a paladin need to access res/heal scrolls?

for a horc pal im thinking:

str 16
dex 16
con 16
int 8
wis 6
cha 13

i'd like to have cha higher, but with GTWF needing 17 dex, and horc giving a bonus to str, i can't really see taking more points out of con for more cha...and i get very little room for upping UMD. a THF paladin would free up so many points, and two feats....im wondering if TWF is worth it now...

thf could go:

str 14
dex 8
con 14
int 14
wis8
cha15

though that may be overkill for int for UMD purposes...

[sephiroth1084]

If you aren't planning on using more than a +1 tome (why?) I'd go THF. Horcs get better DPS with THF anyway. If its a 34 point build I'd go:

Str 18
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 11 +1 tome at 3 for 1 more skill point per level
Wis 8
Cha 15 +1 to get DM II

If you're TRing, you should probably have access to +2 tomes. If you're TRing out of this again, and don't want to spend the money on tomes, I guess just go THF and save your khopeshes for your next life.

Skill-wise, take UMD as a priority--keep it maxed. Nothing else you're getting is as important.

Honestly, if you really want to go TWF, I'd go with a drow instead:
Str 16
Dex 16 +1 for TWF
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 17 +1 for DM III

Keep in mind that Cha enhancements won't give you access to higher tiers of Divine Might; only base + level-ups + tomes will help you meet the required Cha. Each rank is +2 damage for 1 minute a number of times per day of 3+Cha modifier (including gear and enhancements). So more Cha also gives you more uses.

Also, I'd recommend getting to at least level 14 paladin as you get Zeal at that point, which provides a 10% doublestrike, and that's some very good DPS.

[bryanmeerkat]

well i would use at most a +1 tome. probably also take enhancments to up it two more, so im thinking 13 or 15. with a +1 dex tome, dex would still need to be 16, con at least 15 as well...that doesn't leave much for wis/int if i have a decent str.

what umd does a paladin need to access res/heal scrolls?

for a horc pal im thinking:

str 16
dex 16
con 16
int 8
wis 6
cha 13

i'd like to have cha higher, but with GTWF needing 17 dex, and horc giving a bonus to str, i can't really see taking more points out of con for more cha...and i get very little room for upping UMD. a THF paladin would free up so many points, and two feats....im wondering if TWF is worth it now...

thf could go:

str 14
dex 8
con 14
int 14
wis8
cha15

though that may be overkill for int for UMD purposes...

I would get at least +2 tomes for charisma and dex , they can be brought for about 400k for both . Do 1 shroud run more than you where planning to do before rerolling and trade the mats in if for the books .

Why would you gimp your self out of the equivelent of 5 build points for the sake of an hour in the shroud ?
TWF will nearly double your damage of a lot of your big damage abilities . Go TWF

[sephiroth1084]

I would get at least +2 tomes for charisma and dex , they can be brought for about 400k for both . Do 1 shroud run more than you where planning to do before rerolling and trade the mats in if for the books .

Why would you gimp your self out of the equivelent of 5 build points for the sake of an hour in the shroud ?

Sounds like a pretty good idea.

TWF will nearly double your damage of a lot of your big damage abilities . Go TWF

While this is true, and I definitely enjoyed my paladin more as a TWFer than as a THFer in most cases, the to-hit penalties on TWF can really hurt in some spots while leveling, and especially in some epics--it's actually the reason I LR'ed my main from TWF to THF: I was tired of not being able to tank the Abishai Devestator simply because I was missing too often. Going from TWF to THF ended up being a swing of 5 points of to-hit as points from Dex were moved into Str and I lose the -2 TWF penalty and -2 penalty for using a non-light weapon in my off-hand. Could have avoided the second penalty by using a light weapon, but then it's a trade-off of to-hit vs. DPS (though obviously as you start missing, you lose more DPS than the difference between weapon types anyway).

Still, TWF is definitely more productive for most of the game on a paladin as you can get double or even triple smites and Divine Sacrifices.

[azmodeus1]

well this paladin is just for the past life healing amp, the final 36pt build will be a wf soul survivor fvs.

on one character to 20, and one to 18, i've made about 500k pp, not counting gear upgrades and supplies, so spending 400k on a +2 dex tome isn't really appealing. i still need to grind shroud for materials for my greensteels, but we'll see. mabye selling extra would be an option, since im waiting on TR's to go on sale, so with the extra time it could work out.

if not i may just do horc THF, frees up some feats, i have a wide array of axes available, and it allows for a high str/cha, while maintaining a decent con.

[Kinerd]

How does WF make more sense? They have the same starting CHA...

So they do! I'm not sure what I was thinking.

[sephiroth1084]

well this paladin is just for the past life healing amp, the final 36pt build will be a wf soul survivor fvs.

on one character to 20, and one to 18, i've made about 500k pp, not counting gear upgrades and supplies, so spending 400k on a +2 dex tome isn't really appealing. i still need to grind shroud for materials for my greensteels, but we'll see. mabye selling extra would be an option, since im waiting on TR's to go on sale, so with the extra time it could work out.

if not i may just do horc THF, frees up some feats, i have a wide array of axes available, and it allows for a high str/cha, while maintaining a decent con.

If you're not planning on staying on the character for long at 20, definitely go THF, skip the +2 tomes and maximize your abilities for levels 1-19.