DCs on spells.

[Phalcon]

Using House D pots to hit that DC is not sustainable.

It is when you have thousands of them.


Even without still hitting like a 48

[Delt]

44-50...lol.

Anyway, as long as you end up around ~40dc for whatever you specialize in at level 20, you are doing fine -- great actually. Anything beyond that will really come down to specialized gear, +4 tomes, TRing, ship buffs and pots.

At level 17, dc 35 without any exc. int and stuff is about right. It should work quite well in most non-Amarath content. You aren't going to be on the same level as some uber powergamer, but that shouldn't be your measuring stick.

[pie2655]

Well for necro DCs PM and Lich form really help. If you dont alreayd have one try to get the stormreavers napkind from Reaver's Fate. You made need to reset enhancements and get some SR enhancements to, and tery to get a nice SR item. Also using necrotic ray, energy drain, or enervation first can help.

[kernal42]

Well for necro DCs PM and Lich form really help

He has Archmage DC boosts, which are equivalent to lich form for necro spells.

-Kernal

[DrDetroit]

I think its just your perception. I have a L18 Wizard with a Wail DC of 31 or 32 and it works good enough.

You could also be having some back luck with mobs rolling 20s. Just keep casting the spells and they will land.

[pie2655]

He has Archmage DC boosts, which are equivalent to lich form for necro spells.

-Kernal

Oh, hes AM necro specced? Interesting. PM would still give higher DC's i think, and when the mabar event comes back the robe from it helps IIRC.

[sephiroth1084]

Level 18 Drow Pale master:


20starting int+2tome+6Item+4Level+2Lich+2Yugo+2Ship+3Exceptio nal+1LOTD=42(+16)


1Nec focus+1grt Necro focus+1Lich+1past life+2item(staff of the petitioner)+10Base+9Heightened+16int mod=41


So level 18 a PM should easily be able to attain a 41 dc wail. That is without using store pots/abishai cookies/bard songs/+4 tomes etc. So once level 20 with gear/TR's (lots of time invested) you can reach the 50 area.

That isn't easy. And is not realistic for a non-TR'ed level 17 character. Way to be not at all helpful.

My wizard with 1 TR and almost all the gear a Pale Master could desire has a DC of 43-45 depending on buffs available. That's good for basically all content where Finger and Wail work except for elite Amrath, and they still work fairly well there.

As for the max possible DC...50 is the highest you can currently get in Necromancy with every possible buff. That's unrealistic, though. 35 is pretty good for level 17 unless you're running Amrath. If that's the case, prepare for disappointment, because the DCs needed for basically everything there are quite a bit higher. I'd say 36-38 is the low end of usefulness, while 44 is pretty awesome.

Remember, though, that you can always soften target sup with Energy Drain or Enervation. Personally, I'd say that the only reason to bother going Archmage for Necromancy is to pick up the cheap Enervation SLA, since Pale Master is better in general.

[Phalcon]

That isn't easy. And is not realistic for a non-TR'ed level 17 character. Way to be not at all helpful.

How should I be helpful? I said that a 35dc for a level 17 was good enough. my first post I was mistaken as I was thinking he was a level 20. Please explain to me how to be helpful... They wanted a breakdown and I gave it to them. I do however think using an AM to focus on necro spells is a waste but just my opinion, unless hes spec'd in both necro and enchant.


P.S.
20starting int+2tome+6Item+4Level+2Lich+2Yugo+2Ship+3Exceptio nal+1LOTD=42(+16)
1Nec focus+1grt Necro focus+1Lich+1past life+2item(staff of the petitioner)+10Base+9Heightened+16int mod=41

NOT hard to do (with the exception of the LOTD.) So whats your beef?


Thanks for the neg rep though

[sephiroth1084]

How should I be helpful? I said that a 35dc for a level 17 was good enough. my first post I was mistaken as I was thinking he was a level 20. Please explain to me how to be helpful... They wanted a breakdown and I gave it to them. I do however think using an AM to focus on necro spells is a waste but just my opinion, unless hes spec'd in both necro and enchant.

Your first post was mistaken, sure, but the one I quoted was after you acknowledged that he wasn't capped and still represented some difficult to acquire raid loot as "easy" to get for a non-capped toon. I know very few people who have managed to get a Litany or pimp-cane in under 20 runs. I got my staff somewhere around 15 and Litany on my 40th. I'd include them in a breakdown for DCs, but would leave off the "easy" descriptor.

The raid isn't easy, and certainly isn't easy to get into to learn in the first place. If anything, I'd list an upgraded Death's Touch for the Greater Necro focus. That's certainly easier to obtain, even if doing so is rather dull.

P.S.
20starting int+2tome+6Item+4Level+2Lich+2Yugo+2Ship+3Exceptio nal+1LOTD=42(+16)
1Nec focus+1grt Necro focus+1Lich+1past life+2item(staff of the petitioner)+10Base+9Heightened+16int mod=41

NOT hard to do (with the exception of the LOTD.) So whats your beef?

Again, +3 exceptional isn't likely going to be available for a level 17 toon. Neither are Yugo pots, though a bit easier to obtain. Ship buff may not be either. He's clearly not a TR, so past life is out as well. I'm all for providing a full breakdown for someone to shoot for, or cull for the bits that apply, but telling them it isn't hard to do isn't going to help anything when that's incredibly relative and very unlikely for a non-capped toon.

Thanks for the neg rep though

Wasn't me. I haven't repped you one way or another any time recently.

[Phalcon]

I think the abbot raid is very easy actually... stupid easy in fact... The way khyber runs the raid makes it seem a lot harder then it really is but meh they get the job done in the end. As far as keying for it... very easy just takes time. Now getting the gear out of the abbot your right isn't necessarily easy, so your right about that.

[sephiroth1084]

I think the abbot raid is very easy actually... stupid easy in fact... The way khyber runs the raid makes it seem a lot harder then it really is but meh they get the job done in the end. As far as keying for it... very easy just takes time. Now getting the gear out of the abbot your right isn't necessarily easy, so your right about that.

How do other servers make it easier?

And I didn't mean flagging for it as being hard, but simply getting into it, finding groups willing to take along a new player and teaching them.

It would seem that someone (you?) neg rep'ed me for my reply earlier as well.

[Phalcon]

How do other servers make it easier?

And I didn't mean flagging for it as being hard, but simply getting into it, finding groups willing to take along a new player and teaching them.

It would seem that someone (you?) neg rep'ed me for my reply earlier as well.

Ive actually never neg repped anyone, even if I didn't agree with them, so I guess were both at a loss not that it matters. Well I am more then willing to start up an abbot raid and teach those that want in. I agree I don't see much on khyber for abbots and the ones I have been in, I didn't like the strategies. I actually disliked them for many reasons. I don't agree with sending everyone into roids to sleep, I dont agree with using ice platforms lol. I'll show you in game if you hit me up sometime how to run it efficently in 7-10 min (provided the tiles have 2 solid players that can get it done quickly without eating up all the time.

[sephiroth1084]

Ive actually never neg repped anyone, even if I didn't agree with them, so I guess were both at a loss not that it matters. Well I am more then willing to start up an abbot raid and teach those that want in. I agree I don't see much on khyber for abbots and the ones I have been in, I didn't like the strategies. I actually disliked them for many reasons. I don't agree with sending everyone into roids to sleep, I dont agree with using ice platforms lol. I'll show you in game if you hit me up sometime how to run it efficently in 7-10 min (provided the tiles have 2 solid players that can get it done quickly without eating up all the time.

In the runs I do with the guild we tend to send extraneous players to goggles for more "lives" and don't bother with ice platforms either, instead choosing to heal through inferno. Sometimes the heal-through works and sometimes we're left with one healer alive and struggling to either finish the Abbot off or revive everyone.

With the other group of guys I run Abbots with frequently we tend to send people to bed in Asteroids and use ice platforms. Sometimes a bunch of people die trying to get to the platform, and sometimes we have a problem with the platform and wipe.

What do you do with extraneous people if not send them to sleep in 'roids and not having them waste time in goggles? Kill them? Do you use a different method for the inferno?

I agree that in good groups the raid isn't especially hard, but I've seent hat even with excellent groups who run the raid together frequently it still has the highest chance to randomly fail of any of the raids or quests in DDO. There's no other quest where I go in expecting somewhere between a 50-75% chance of success on the first run.

[Phalcon]

In the runs I do with the guild we tend to send extraneous players to goggles for more "lives" and don't bother with ice platforms either, instead choosing to heal through inferno. Sometimes the heal-through works and sometimes we're left with one healer alive and struggling to either finish the Abbot off or revive everyone.

With the other group of guys I run Abbots with frequently we tend to send people to bed in Asteroids and use ice platforms. Sometimes a bunch of people die trying to get to the platform, and sometimes we have a problem with the platform and wipe.

What do you do with extraneous people if not send them to sleep in 'roids and not having them waste time in goggles? Kill them? Do you use a different method for the inferno?

I agree that in good groups the raid isn't especially hard, but I've seent hat even with excellent groups who run the raid together frequently it still has the highest chance to randomly fail of any of the raids or quests in DDO. There's no other quest where I go in expecting somewhere between a 50-75% chance of success on the first run.

I send all excess to goggles. Its not a waste if someone F's up the goggles. So I start off leading 1 person across, if they make it then take the rest all at once.

For the infernos, you heal through it and if you ever noticed the inferno is a curse. if your not a healer, you drink curse pots and protection from fire pots one after another until its done, this alone will keep you up through them. For the healers it is imperative that they drink a curse pot, then use mass heals, just not the spell mass heal as its too slow. typically this will shred their sp, but the abbot should only be a 30 second - 1 minute fight if casters are nuking dps is swinging and healers are healing.

[TheKeg]

Oh, hes AM necro specced? Interesting. PM would still give higher DC's i think, and when the mabar event comes back the robe from it helps IIRC.

Yea I'm AM and Necro specced. As I mentioned earlier, Necro spec comes from well before AM and PM were options. If I were rolling the guy new, I'd probably have gone Enchantment spec. I didn't go PM because I think the idea of a WF Lich is...silly. Also, I picked up SF: Enchant as my 18th level feat last night. Will weight what feats I have that I could dump for picking up GSF: Enchant.

Oh yeah, I also noticed that I did have Spell Pen feat and almost took Great Spell Pen instead of SF:Enchant, but I haven't had much problem beating SR.

I did get a spyglass crafted at the recent event so I'll have a +2 Ex INT in another 2 levels. Now, I guess I'll have to start making a list of items I want/need.

[TheKeg]

Okay, I've run the guy a lot here recently and I've seen him perform pretty decently. It was just my initial perception that he was failing like mad. Ran a bunch of IQ and some others this weekend and was satisfied with his work. I also picked up SF: Enchant with AM enhancment to shoot off a mass hold for those mobs that make the save against my wail.

Thanks for everyone posting insight in the thread here. I guess my next question would be, what items help with enchantment? I have a standard +1 enchanment DC item to use along with my necro item (trying to unsupress my Death's touch currently for the +2). Are there any similar items for enchantment?

[Tinco]

Dreamspitter (Reaver Raid - Staff) and Eardweller (IQ quest raredrop - trinket) both have greater enchantment focus.

[sephiroth1084]

Dreamspitter (Reaver Raid - Staff) and Eardweller (IQ quest raredrop - trinket) both have greater enchantment focus.

And the Staff of the Petitioner from The Abbot. The Epic Staff of Inner Sight has Spell Focus Mastery, which is +2 to all schools (non-stacking).

[TheKeg]

Thanks to you both. Going to have to run Reaver's more it seems.

[tinyelvis]

I have a Nec specced Wizard from back before AM and PM were planned. He's 17th and I've recently become very discouraged with him when running quests. I can't seem to get wail or FOD to land as often as it seems others do.

I have a DC of 35 or so on my wail. I have taken the following things helping with the DC:

*Archmage - School mastery I and II
*Necro item
*Spell Focus - Necro
*Greater SF - Necro
*+6 INT item
*either 16 or 18 starting INT (can't remember atm)
*All level ups into INT

Am I missing something painfully obvious here? Or is the failure rate just my perception and it just seems worse than it is?

This DC is good if you are a WF sorc, otherwise it is quite low. Don't expect to do well in high fort areas until you get your DC above 40.