Solo Bard

[Dakthur]

For a bard that will solo most of his life, with the exception of elite quests and those requiring groups, what is the general consensus for the best prestige path? WC, Virt or SS ?

And keep in mind that this guy wont have a higher level to feed him coin and better gear.

[MarinMegara123]

All three paths could solo well but splashing could improve their soloing abilities. From my experience and imho warchanters are best though. ^_^

[cdemeritt]

Warchanter.... built more for melee...

[bladepro]

For a good solo build go WC and go something like 15bard/3rog/2Fig, good melee, evasion, trap skills, self healing.
3 rog gives more sa damage than any bonus from 16bard.

[Valindria]

I'm gonna throw in my vote for a Virtuoso as solo bard. Stealth + Enthrall/caper. Decent self heals with sustaining song. A little less melee than a WC but still nothing to laugh at.

See my Virt as an example. What I might do in your case is take Weapon Focus instead of Kopesh and then you can try out WC or Virt. Consider pierce for rapiers/heavy picks.

The disadvantage is not being able to handle traps.

Here is the general plan for my TR virtuoso:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=293085

Currently the only thing that makes the healing song better is healing amp. So my plan is to go human with max healing amp + twf with chaos blades for life steal.

[unbongwah]

Another vote for Virtuoso: lower melee DPS than WC, but also lower feat pre-reqs (0 or 1 depending on build so you can add something else), better CC songs (I've grown quite fond of Song of Capering), free song regen, and Song of Sustaining for a free mass heal-over-time effect.

[Gorbadoc]

For a bard that will solo most of his life, with the exception of elite quests and those requiring groups, what is the general consensus for the best prestige path? WC, Virt or SS ?

That's the wrong question. I've been running a war chanter heavy-hitter on a budget with great success. If I changed his prestige enhancement, it would have only a slight effect on his performance. Heck, I wouldn't even say he'd be worse: He'd have slightly lower DPS, but virtuoso would give him a couple extra free swings (with Enthrallment rather than Fascinate) plus some healing over time, while spellsinger would make him more viable as a healer and improve any casters in the party.

If you're wondering whether to go caster or melee, go melee. I know lots of fancy tricks with songs, spells, and stealth; there still comes a time where I have to be able to out-smack a monster.

[Stitch78]

For a good solo build go WC and go something like 15bard/3rog/2Fig, good melee, evasion, trap skills, self healing.
3 rog gives more sa damage than any bonus from 16bard.

Agree with Warchanter splash. But you only need 2 levels of rogue - that gets you evasion and traps skills. A third level of rogue is useless on a solo build that won't be able to sneak attack anything.

16 bard/2rog/2fight... or 12 bard/6fighter/2rog for Kensai and Haste Boost II.

[domecek1]

Already leveling my TRd bard and can solo everything, what I want to solo. No hirelings, no shrines, just walking trought quests like avalanche. Final build will be 14bard/6fighter WC. Swinging with sword of shadow againsth 0 fort or mineral GA againsth 100fort. But yeah, he is well geared. Btw, I have never met melee which would overkill me in quests during leveling (even with my buffs). Total machine. I dont care about evasion or traps. If you know quests, you can easily avoid them in 90% cases.

[gwenniez]

I'm gonna throw in my vote for a Virtuoso as solo bard. Stealth + Enthrall/caper. Decent self heals with sustaining song. A little less melee than a WC but still nothing to laugh at.

See my Virt as an example. What I might do in your case is take Weapon Focus instead of Kopesh and then you can try out WC or Virt. Consider pierce for rapiers/heavy picks.

The disadvantage is not being able to handle traps.

Agreed virtuoso make great solo characters, i ran the mabar event on my virtuoso and barely had to run back and forth at all the sustaining song will do a nice job on your way to 20 so will the capering song and enthrall. If you really are critical enthrall some mobs hit sustaining song and just sit it out its only after 18 (amrath,iq,reavers reach,shroud,most raids) virtuosos begin to loose power vs the other pre's but on your way to 20 soloing a lot they make great dependable characters.

[Alleyna]

As others have said above, a melee bard, probably with at least 2 rogue splash, with good song CC will make the best solo bard. I would vote virtuoso as well because while soloing, Enthrall + Song of Capering + Sustaining song is greater than Ironskin Chant (you can get some DR from items), Greater Heroism song (you can cast the spell), and Song of Recklessness (little less DPS). Enthrall is > Fascinate since mobs don't immediately break on a hit, so you usually get a few swings at least before they break. Song of Capering is very awesome, especially since you can hit a pesky spellcaster with it while you go to town on other mobs. Also, you can hit mobs from a far distance that may be somewhat blocked with Song of Capering.

Virtuoso also gives you a higher perform (+6 if you take Virt II since you need perform I and II for prereqs and get +4 perform from Virt I & II) which is important since you want your song DCs to be pretty high, and more songs, which you will always want to make use of.

[Samadhi]

For a bard that will solo most of his life, with the exception of elite quests and those requiring groups, what is the general consensus for the best prestige path? WC, Virt or SS ?

And keep in mind that this guy wont have a higher level to feed him coin and better gear.

It doesn't make a huge difference either way which path you go IMO (although personally I happen to favor SS slightly).

What it DOES matter is that you build for melee first and healing second. The songs are your crowd control; but if you can't melee you will never complete even mid-level quests; and excellent self-healing becomes even more necessary at higher levels when scrolls and concentration checks are just too slow and too unreliable while soloing.

[Dakthur]

Thanks for all the great input.

Follow up question ... which spells/songs are must haves for solo bards? But also for those occasional groups I'll need.

Thank you again. Bard community rocks!

[Gorbadoc]

As others have said above, a melee bard, probably with at least 2 rogue splash, with good song CC will make the best solo bard.

Rogue splash is a good option, but going pure is also a good option. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

When you solo a quest, you don't actually need trap skills or evasion. You can be patient figuring out the timing of a trap, since no one is waiting for you. When you do goof and get hit, very few traps will be lethal if you've packed a reasonable number of hit points into your build. The same goes for enemy blade barriers: my pure bards never have trouble making their Break Enchantment check to remove one; I just have to be paying attention. Similar story for fireballs: many can be avoided with smart play.

In all the above cases, you will get hit sometimes, at which point you simply heal yourself. Smart play is all about getting hit less often so you can save your healing. Do you save yourself healing by having Evasion, or do you do it by having better spell penetration, slightly better buffs and heals, and earlier access to various spells? It really does come down to player preference and (possibly) other goals of the build.

[Gorbadoc]

Thanks for all the great input.

Follow up question ... which spells/songs are must haves for solo bards? But also for those occasional groups I'll need.

Thank you again. Bard community rocks!

For the first four or five levels, try to get your hands on Wands of Cure Light Wounds and Wands of Charm Person. Use Master's Touch for the best two-hander you can find. Summon Monster I is nice for a little extra firepower and as a decoy. Expeditious Retreat will become a standard buff after a few levels.

Generally, keep whatever highest-level Cure spell you can fit in and dump your previous Cure spell (but take Haste and Displacement as soon as you can, even though it means delaying a Cure spell!). At higher levels, you'll start keeping more than one cure spell; I think I keep Cure Serious, Cure Crit, Mass Cure Light, and Mass Cure Mod on my high-level pure bards.

Haste and Displacement are quite possibly the biggest one-level improvement to your melee ability. When you first learn them, their durations will be short. Treat them like action boosts, casting them as you charge into combat, so you'll have them for the worst of the fighting.

For Summon Monster, I personally like the Lantern Archon and the Bearded Devil. For any given spell level, grab the "Oh wow that spell/buff is awesome" spells first, then the Cure spell, then the Summon Monster Spell. Feel free to replace the lower-level Summon Monster spell (unless you really like one of its summons for whatever reason).

Otto's Irresistible Dance is seriously cool: disable a single opponent without having to worry about your DC. Spell resistance is still an issue with devils, which is why I list this spell as one of the benefits of a pure bard (since they have a higher caster level, and they get improved spell pen from the capstone).

Good Hope is a bard-only spell. It's the easiest way to remove Crushing Despair. Inspire Courage plus Greater Heroism make Good Hope redundant (none of them stack), but Good Hope has a long duration and it affects multiple targets. Good in case I forget to re-sing or if someone misses the singing, or if I want to give everyone a cheap +2 to skills without handing out Greater Heroism.

If a buff spell looks good, it's probably worth learning; Greater Heroism and Freedom of Movement come to mind, and I'm probably forgetting some.

Note that Freedom of Movement protects against Hold Person but NOT against Greater Command (I think) or a vampire's Suggestion (I'm sure of that one); for those, you'll want a Wand of Protection From Evil (requires a UMD check).

Blur and Rage are both good, though I don't make high priorities of them at early levels. Note that Blur does NOT stack with Displacement; people like it because it lasts longer (taking time to re-displace in the middle of combat is a pain).

Break Enchantment is your one-hotkey solution to Wall of Fire, Blade Barrier, cloud spells, and the teammate who fell victim to Hold Person/Monster.

Hypnotize is good at the beginning, but its usefulness will quickly fall off a cliff as monsters get halfway decent Will saves. Caster-specced bards and wizards overcome this problem by dedicating their builds to raising their DCs. Melee bards overcome this problem by learning to use Fascinate instead.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

Thanks for all the great input.

Follow up question ... which spells/songs are must haves for solo bards? But also for those occasional groups I'll need.

Have only played a Spellsinger, but from a caster/CC point of view:
Defenses = Displace/Blur, Diplomacy skill, Blind
Melee Offenses = Inspire Courage/Greater Hero/Haste/Master's Touch & Clicky of Divine Power(occasionally)

Survival is tied to the SP pool, in my case.
Spellsong Vigor regens spell points, Eyld Edge regens songs, Spell points regen life.

Groups don't typically remain cohesive in one place for long, so Extend Spell is good for buffing at the start along with the songs. Selective Displace is wonderful for Tanks. So is Haste/Rage on the DPS.

High UMD and Master's = able to use almost any non-exotic weapon in the game. I prefer to dual wield (without any feats) to get more weapon effects. With a light off hander, Inspire Courage makes up the difference in lost to-hit.

To liquidate trash, Charm one or two, let the confusion begin and then selectively Hold Monster and chuck an axe while holding a seeker +10 in the other hand. Or: Shoot with an Imp Cursespewer, and then Control their Minds.
With lots of distractions, and strong Diplo, you can easily squeeze more DPS with Backstabbing weapons. Or, Blind them, and backstab away.

Cast Otto's Sphere & Mind Fog *behind* you as well, to trap them when you retreat.
To handle bosses, send in your recruits *first* to die. Regenning Trolls are great recruits.

A good Summons is a Hasted Displaced Heroed(they are subject to fear!!) Earth Elemental, that can earthgrab. Earthgrab = autocrits. Use a pair of Bursting Picks. No 2WF feats? Who cares? They're dead in a flash.

You only need ONE healing spell- your best one. You're not a cleric. Any minor damage you have to fix? Use a wand. Need to heal yourself when out of power? That's Heal Scroll/ Potion time.

Detect Secret Doors & Featherfall - Good utility spells for a soloist, but replaceable by swappable clickies.
Glitterdust - disappointingly, most mobs save vs this one, which can give a nice AOE blinding effect. Rogues will love it if anything fails the save.

AOE heals are useful vs packs of Undead, but you can pick up a lot of non-Diplo-able Aggro. Generally not that great as an offense, but economical to heal a group.

[charmor]

Nice thread.

I also would like to try a solo bard, and I'm problably going virtuoso. In this case, which is the best weapon to use? Should I for example just grab a two-handed weapon with Master's Touch, avoid Dex and put everything into Str/Cha/Con? Or aiming for the TWF line is really the best way to go (this way taking more benefit from inspire courage). Problem is that I'm going pure bard, so I don't know if I'll have enough feats for the TWF line..

[Gorbadoc]

Nice thread.

I also would like to try a solo bard, and I'm problably going virtuoso. In this case, which is the best weapon to use? Should I for example just grab a two-handed weapon with Master's Touch, avoid Dex and put everything into Str/Cha/Con? Or aiming for the TWF line is really the best way to go (this way taking more benefit from inspire courage). Problem is that I'm going pure bard, so I don't know if I'll have enough feats for the TWF line..

Think:
16 str
8 dex
14 con
? int
8 wis
12 cha

That should leave some points left over. Your low-hanging fruits for those remaining points are:
Intelligence (Concentration, Perform, UMD are the must-have skills; Hide, Move Silently, Listen are great to max if you want to sneak around; Balance, Jump, and one point of Tumble can split the remaining points. Haggle is good if you don't have a haggle bot. That's 4, 7, or 8 skills per level needed).

Constitution (18 on a dwarf or warforged, 16 on other races; must at least TRY to keep your survivability on par with the fighters you're trying to imitate)

Strength (once the above low-hanging fruits are addressed, more strength is always good. Half orcs should be able to do 18 strength no problem).

Weapon: Any two-hander. Like you said, Master's Touch is your friend.
I also recommend finding a decent shield and a throwing weapon. Equip them to a weapon set. Play around with them. As an example of their usefulness: sometimes, entering a room would mean a You vs. Fifty Casters fight. If you can slowly skirt around a door frame so only one caster sees you at a time, you can instead make it a series of You vs. One Caster fights, albeit with the less-than-ideal throwing weapon.

Don't believe the hype about not having enough feats. Non-humans get seven feats. The must-have combat feats are:
Toughness
Power Attack
Weapon Focus (War Chanter only; Spell Singers need a different feat; Virtuosos can get whatever they want)
THF (or TWF)
Imp Crit
ITHF (or ITWF)
GTHF (or GTWF)

Seven feats, seven slots. You just need to prioritize: slight DPS improvement, or handy metamagics?

The bigger problems with TWF are the stats and the equipment. Like I hinted above, you already want high strength, high constitution, some intelligence (at least, if you love stealth like I do), some charisma. Thank goodness you can dump wisdom and dexterity! But if you go TWF, you need to hit the 17 dex mark (tomes count, items don't) for ITWF and GTWF. That's doable, especially for a True Reincarnation, but you'll be prioritizing.

Then there's equipment. You go THF? You need to buy ONE fancy weapon at a time. You go TWF? You need to buy TWO fancy weapons at a time. Nothing wrong with either path; just know that, when people say "TWF wins the DPS battle", they're assuming comparably fancy weapons, which means twice as many weapons on the TWFer. (Actually, oddly enough, I've heard Epic Sword of Shadows is so insanely powerful that it actually overtakes the best TWF weapons. I personally would never spend enough time running the same quests over and over to get the stupid thing, but it's something to keep in mind if you like farming and want a build for bragging rights).

[sly_1]

For a good solo build go WC and go something like 15bard/3rog/2Fig, good melee, evasion, trap skills, self healing.
3 rog gives more sa damage than any bonus from 16bard.

3 rogue gives more sa bonus (exactly 3.5 avg per blow), but less overall utility. 16 bard grants lvl 6 spells including ottos irresistible dance, arguably the best single target cc spell in the game.

3.5 dmg vs a spell that can potentially save the day in sketchy situations.... personally that tiny extra dmg seems rather irrelevant to me *shrug*

[RobinofSpiritwood]

Nice thread.

I also would like to try a solo bard, and I'm problably going virtuoso. In this case, which is the best weapon to use? .

Of the 3 Bard flavors, Virtuoso is the best suited for solo survival.

Virtuoso gives a LOT of songs, auto-regen of songs and very strong Enthrall ability. You can use that as your main CC, and build a heavier focus on fighting skills. That basically means you don't need to absolutely max out Charisma for spell DC's. By the time you get to Virtuoso 2, you get a very effective healing song too- a real boon to any party, or a vital asset to a soloist, reducing your dependency on a big SP pool for heals.

So, what feats do you absolutely need?
- Power Attack. Demands Str of 14 minimum for the closest bonus break point. Higher Str carries over better to THF
- Combat Expertise( if you want to Tank with AC). Demands minimum base Int of 13, you can start with 11 and use a +2 tome.
- 2WF line( if you go thataway) mandates min Dex of 16 for closest bonus break point. Will need a +2 tome to reach the limit for the last feat, or you will have to allocate ability points here. If you wish to build good AC, you will need plenty plenty Dex, and therefore the Finesse feat.
- Toughness ( and Toughness enhancements) for more HP. You still need a good base Con, say 14 or so.
- Imp Crit: area of choice - a very good thing to have.

Let's assume that the DC's and Spell point pool is going to be smaller than a Spellsinger's. You cannot get the Autocrit Holds, and so don't benefit from Picks(narrow crit range/big multiplier) - you will have to get Crits the regular way with a wide Crit range weapon: Scimitar, Rapier, or Khopesh. If you go 2HF, look at Falchions.

If you are not going to be much of a combat caster, you might want to look at getting the biggest honkin' shield you can hide behind for those bad times, preferably one with a big Protection bonus on it, and do some Shieldsinging. You are going to be doing ranged fighting, and the thing to pelt is an axe (while holding a seeker +10 in the other hand if you haven't gotten a Bloodstone.) Brutal Throw is a good feat if your Str is way higher than Dex( say in place of Finesse?) - but not essential.

Throwers get to take your STR bonus along for damage either way, and Inspire Courage stacks on top, so an unbuffed Fighter would need to surpass your Str by a whopping 16 points just to break even with you.