Can This Toon Be Saved?

[TheDearLeader]

You might ditch Extend. Take Enchantment Focus at level 1 so all you'll need is a feat swap if you decide to go that route-- for example, if you take Maximize at 18 and later decide that you want Maximize AND GSF but not Extend. I'm not saying that's what you WILL decide; just that it's nice to keep your options open.

In any event, you'll be in a better position to prioritize once you've seen the high-level content. Also, you'll get a feel for the kinds of items needed to truly maximize your DCs.

I personally disagree with this statement, but this is normally a point of argument in a lot of caster threads.

I view Extend to be absolutely essential. Early on, it makes your buffs like Blur last between Shrines, even in the longer quests. Later on, you're using it to get max duration Haste and Rage. It also will extend the duration of your CC spells, such as Otto's Dancing Sphere and Otto's Irresistible Dance. As a Bard that's moving toward being more CC based, these will be crucial for you.

[Aashrym]

I personally disagree with this statement, but this is normally a point of argument in a lot of caster threads.

I view Extend to be absolutely essential. Early on, it makes your buffs like Blur last between Shrines, even in the longer quests. Later on, you're using it to get max duration Haste and Rage. It also will extend the duration of your CC spells, such as Otto's Dancing Sphere and Otto's Irresistible Dance. As a Bard that's moving toward being more CC based, these will be crucial for you.

It's nice, and can save on SP, but it's not essential. I've cut it in the past too. That's the issue with limited feats. Tough choices sometimes.

[Gorbadoc]

I personally disagree with this statement, but this is normally a point of argument in a lot of caster threads.

The key is that, if he takes Spell Focus at level 1 (and Extend at 3, 6, 9, or wherever), he can have Extend while leveling, but still have the freedom to drop it at 20 with just one feat swap. He will definitely do well to look at both sides of the argument in making his decision, of course. Or she, if Oakanius self-identifies as female. Stupid English with its lack of a polite gender-neutral pronoun that doesn't sound weird...

[Oakianus]

The key is that, if he takes Spell Focus at level 1 (and Extend at 3, 6, 9, or wherever), he can have Extend while leveling, but still have the freedom to drop it at 20 with just one feat swap. He will definitely do well to look at both sides of the argument in making his decision, of course. Or she, if Oakanius self-identifies as female. Stupid English with its lack of a polite gender-neutral pronoun that doesn't sound weird...

It's okay, I was born in a male body and am pretty well cisgendered except for maybe a weird dream or two here and there I guess but hey, that happens to everyone right?

Right?

AHEM

That sounds like a good idea though. Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to check the thread and just LR'd. :P

Thinking about posting my gear in a bit and looking for suggestions? I have three of the four big immunities covered, at least, and can't remember what the last one was. The ones I have are blindness, disease and poison immunity. Is the fourth one deathblock? Deathblock's pretty cool, I must admit. :P

[Gorbadoc]

Deathblock is probably MORE important than the others.

Blindness, Poison, and Disease can all be removed by a potion. Heck, you can even preemptively protect yourself with the poison pot.

Death effects, meanwhile, are not so easy to remove. For starters, when you fail your save against one, you're dead. And while I like the Death Ward spell as much as the next low-fort-save character, it can and will be dispelled by beholders, who still use Finger of Death on occasion.

Do you have The Necropolis adventure packs? The Silver Flame upgradeable necklace is a great guaranteed deathblock item that also absorbs negative energy effects (useful if you run out of Death Ward).

[der_kluge]

I don't think that build is a lost cause. Sure, he's going to struggle from a combat perspective, but you can still have fun with him, and he can still contribute.

Thing is, to make an effective combat character, you really have to kind of plan for that sort of thing. You can't just take a weak person and say "I'm gonna make you awesome at combat!" It doesn't work that way. No amount of gear in the world would make this guy able to solo his way through quests effectively.

That said, it looks like you're going to LR him, which is fine. Ultimately, it depends on what you want to do with your character. I really enjoy playing my spellsinger, and she really brings a lot to the table.

[Alleyna]

12: Spell Pen or Maximize.
15: Heighten
18: GSF: Enchant or Maximize.

Anyone have any opinions regarding those feats and where I might squeeze in Maximize? I know it's pretty useful for healing, which I'm obviously working on, but I'm worried that without GSF or Spell Pen, I won't be landing any of my spells when I get on toward epics.

You want to be a CC spell-caster? Every single DC point counts at end game. Period. I would not recommend ditching GSF Enchant.

Someone recommended possibly getting rid of Extend spell for Maximize. I find Extend very useful. While it is not necessary to have, it's disappointing throwing under 2 minute hastes, rages, and displacements. If there are lots of mobs and you throw down a disco ball, it's not good if it disappears before you get a chance to dispatch all the mobs. Plus, it saves you spell points over casting it twice, and as a spellcaster bard, you want to maximize your spell points as much as possible. I would not recommend ditching Extend.

There are many mobs without spell penetration and you have other ways to up your spell penetration against those that do. Take a rank or two of the Bard Spell Penetration enhancement (or all three if you can fit it in, but I find the 6 AP cost of Bard Spell Penetration III to be too expensive for the benefit). The Bard capstone Bard Musical Prodigy gives you a +2 Spell Penetration. Find/buy a Greater Spell Penetration VI weapon (random generated loot) or run Demon Queen raid from the Demon Sands adventure pack and pick up the Torc of Prince Rayium-de II. Also, your CC songs are not subject to Spell Penetration. I personally would recommend ditching Spell Penetration for Maximize.

[Oakianus]

I figured that for the gratification of people who gave me such great advice, I would go ahead and share a little bit.

Had a GREAT weekend's worth of playing and made it pretty much to the doorstep of 11th level. Went and used my LR chance and rerolled the character mentioned earlier, and honestly I started off wondering if I hadn't made a bit of a mistake. I was **** when it came to soloing anything within a mile of my level, and I still felt like I was piking a bit, other than throwing around backup heals.

Then... 10th level happened. I picked Otto's Disco Ball of Furious Awesomisity and Hold Monster, and then went with a PUG through VoN 1-4 and the entire quest chain in all of the jungle caves/mines, wherever the hell that was.

REGARDLESS, the point is that I really came into my own all at once. I'm still not super great at targeting monsters where I want to target them, nor of dropping my disco ball exactly where I want to. But I have a feeling that said skills will come with time. And meanwhile, I am really enjoying the huge change in playstyle. Whereas before I felt that I was able to give some minor DPS benefits and backup healing, being able to bust out effective CC and watching a whole horde of trolls dance about like silly monkeys is just completely epic.

Thanks to everyone! You were right about what works and what doesn't, and you've really improved the amount of fun that I'm going to have with this toon.

[Gorbadoc]

Good. Disco Ball turns Gianthold into a joke.

Unfortunately, one of the punchlines is this: eventually, monsters get freakishly good spell resistance and will saves, such that you have to focus really hard on those DCs and that spell penetration to make your CC spells do their job.

The other punchline is even worse: Because your CC abilities are so good, certain quests are immune. Right now, sure, you have to use Glitterdust on undead instead of Disco Ball, because of the whole undead = no mind-affecting spells thing. Eventually, though, there are entire quests where a bunch of your better spells don't work, pretty much because Disco Ball is so awesome in Gianthold, and the devs didn't want your life to get boring.

"Why can't I charm him? Devils are vulnerable to charm!"

"Normally, yes, but all the monsters in this quest have the Ward of Poorly-Planned Crowd Control Systems"

"%&#*!"

You'll still be useful. You just won't shine quite so bright in these particular quests.

[learst]

Good. Disco Ball turns Gianthold into a joke.

Unfortunately, one of the punchlines is this: eventually, monsters get freakishly good spell resistance and will saves, such that you have to focus really hard on those DCs and that spell penetration to make your CC spells do their job.

The other punchline is even worse: Because your CC abilities are so good, certain quests are immune. Right now, sure, you have to use Glitterdust on undead instead of Disco Ball, because of the whole undead = no mind-affecting spells thing. Eventually, though, there are entire quests where a bunch of your better spells don't work, pretty much because Disco Ball is so awesome in Gianthold, and the devs didn't want your life to get boring.

"Why can't I charm him? Devils are vulnerable to charm!"

"Normally, yes, but all the monsters in this quest have the Ward of Poorly-Planned Crowd Control Systems"

"%&#*!"

You'll still be useful. You just won't shine quite so bright in these particular quests.

Hehe, true that.

Gianthold Tor, Reaver's Refuge, the Shock Troopers, Lieutenant Devils etc.

[locus]

Someone recommended possibly getting rid of Extend spell for Maximize. I find Extend very useful.

On a bard, definitely keep extend. It's much more useful than maximize and agreed - the sp savings are significant.

Then... 10th level happened. I picked Otto's Disco Ball of Furious Awesomisity and Hold Monster, and then went with a PUG through VoN 1-4 and the entire quest chain in all of the jungle caves/mines, wherever the hell that was.

Yeah, aren't these ridiculous? Wait until you can irresistable dance tough orange monsters with high saves You might want to grab a couple of heavy picks (ideally of maiming, or work on a maiming rocksplitter from the Lordsmarch quests at levels 12-14) eventually so you can tear held monsters apart. It's too bad bards don't get mass hold monster; makes no sense.

Do you have a heavy fort item? You can get one at level 9 running Relic of a Sovereign Past, but if not then 11 from Necro 4 turnins. A must have

[Aashrym]

I will jump on the maximize is more important than extend wagon. It's important to for healing. I would take both if possible but not many classes can take all the feats they want.

[TheDearLeader]

I will jump on the maximize is more important than extend wagon. It's important to for healing. I would take both if possible but not many classes can take all the feats they want.

My Bard does not have Maximize/Empower/Empower Healing. Full CC Spellsinger.

Have Wand and Scroll Mastery III. If a Heal scroll fueled with that doesn't do me, I'm in more trouble than Maximize can fix. And while I don't think my build could solo-heal Shroud, I've certainly kept smart 6-man parties up.

How important is healing, really, if our focus is to prevent damage from ever happening through superior buffs and CC abilities? The mobs in Sins of Attrition, for example, do little damage while dancing. But if that Dancing Ball goes away too early because *someone* doesn't have Extend? Yes, well, now the lack of Extend created the need for Maximize.

[der_kluge]

Wait til you get Mass Suggestion. My 16 spellsinger can probably (I say probably, because I've never bothered to try) solo Gianthold quests without ever having to dirty her blade.

[TheDearLeader]

Wait til you get Mass Suggestion. My 16 spellsinger can probably (I say probably, because I've never bothered to try) solo Gianthold quests without ever having to dirty her blade.

Mass Suggestion or Mass Charm Monster. I use the latter to solo Sins of Attrition on Normal.

I do still help my minions fight their compadres, but its much easier when 95% of the battlefield is on your side.