low strength roque

[erikbozelie]

I wont go into detail into the build but.
will i be able to achief decent dps without relying on an high strength?(20-ish tops)

thanks in advance for any responces.

[Sethasoigh]

only when you don't have agro (assuming you have 13+ rogue levels for sneak attack)

[erikbozelie]

yes 19, in my build

[voodoogroves]

Yes in many cases; no in others. Bosses will be your biggest problem, crit and sneak immune your second (undead, golems, etc.)

In a group this is less problematic as someone else will likely control the aggro. Solo you can deal with trash using stat drainers, deception/radiance/other means to get sneak damage ... but none of that works on bosses.

For a classic example, things like the red named at the end of Running With the Devils - his self-heal rate is pretty fast and w/o a good way to guarantee sneak damage, only have minimal base damage will be challenged to out-pace his healing and drop him.



Greater Bane weapons help, but only so far.

[toughguyjoe]

While Strength can easily be buffed as can damage, it is still important to have good Strength on a rogue, for those times when you cannot sneak attack at your full capacity.

Most raid bosses possess 50% fortification, which will slow your damage down considerably. At that point every point of Strength helps take it down faster.

You can get by with a lowish Strength, but I would not advise it.

In the end though, it's up to you.

[bandyman1]

I wont go into detail into the build but.
will i be able to achief decent dps without relying on an high strength?(20-ish tops)

thanks in advance for any responces.

If your rogue is a melee-build, you're going to need a decent Str score.

Bottom line.

Period.




Regardless of Dex-based, finesse-build, ect.

Your citing of " 20-ish tops " makes me think that you're also starting Str too low to take power attack, which is another mistake.
It compounds the problem of many new-rogue builders relying on sneak attack too much for damage output.

A rogue must be able to contribute more to the party than trap skills. If your plans for that contribution is melee-based DPS, then you must not limit yourself to only being able to accomplish that when your opponents aren't fort/sneak immune mob-types. Otherwise, you are a waste of a party-slot.

Never let anyone convince you that Dex-based rogues aren't viable. They are. It's only when newbies or noobs make the mistake of dumping Str and/or not taking power attack on a melee-based build that it becomes a problem.

[toughguyjoe]

If your rogue is a melee-build, you're going to need a decent Str score.

Bottom line.

Period.




Regardless of Dex-based, finesse-build, ect.

Your citing of " 20-ish tops " makes me think that you're also starting Str too low to take power attack, which is another mistake.
It compounds the problem of many new-rogue builders relying on sneak attack too much for damage output.

A rogue must be able to contribute more to the party than trap skills. If your plans for that contribution is melee-based DPS, then you must not limit yourself to only being able to accomplish that when your opponents aren't fort/sneak immune mob-types. Otherwise, you are a waste of a party-slot.

Never let anyone convince you that Dex-based rogues aren't viable. They are. It's only when newbies or noobs make the mistake of dumping Str and/or not taking power attack on a melee-based build that it becomes a problem.

Excellent advice. Now play DDO with me, you Bandyman!

[erikbozelie]

kay so 13 str is adviced.
if im able to hold it at 11/12 + tomes...

+6 enhancement +2 shrine i end up at 22 strength... way lower then any of my other melee toons

[voodoogroves]

+2 ship + 6 item + 2 tome + 2 rage (spell) + 3 exceptional = +15 ... before titan's grip, madstone, sacred/profane, pots


The deal w/ a finesse rogue is that it can get plenty of static DEX - and that's cool - but not many items or things boost your dex. Even if you start your STR at 14, you can push that to the 29 w/ reasonable grind, more with more grind and gear.

[bandyman1]

Excellent advice. Now play DDO with me, you Bandyman!

I may be making a return sometime during the summer.


I'd like to come back, I miss you ****ers . But I can't make any promises until I see how things are going to play out with the little ones. Leigh and I have our hands full ATM.

[erikbozelie]

i know how to get an reasonable amount of strength...
just wanted to know if i would be able to get decent dps without it.

[Feithlin]

i know how to get an reasonable amount of strength...
just wanted to know if i would be able to get decent dps without it.

Sneak attack, haste boosts, haste from clikies/pots/friendly caster in the group.
Anyway, as bandit said, dex-based or str-based, you should apply for Power Attack, i.e. 13 Str with tomes.
It's hard to tell more since you didn't even give your str score. If it's a 6, you'll have a hard time...

[erikbozelie]

i am just thinking of an roque19, monk1.
there are probably already builds out there that do the same, but id like to think its my own build.
putting a lot into wisdom and dex. alowing decent stunning fist dc. with fists and greater 2 weapon fighting it shouldn't be that bad...

i haven't looked everything up yet. or written it down on paper, but if its like the point buy of my clronk (97 ac, with not optimal gear) my roque idea shouldnt be an glass cannon anymore heh? .

well its just an thought.

19 level roque = 10d6 sneak attack? hmm, 1/2 elf with dilligette would get the capstone xD. but lost fists...

fists arent that far off with khopeshes at an certain point. i am only looking some stuff up, and asking some questions whenever i have them on the forrum .

[Artos_Fabril]

i know how to get an reasonable amount of strength...
just wanted to know if i would be able to get decent dps without it.

That depends what you mean by "decent" You'll never has as much DPS as a full geared Dex based rogue as you will as a fully geared STR based rogue, and your to-hit won't be able to burst as high either...

On the other hand, 95% of groups you join won't know the difference one way or another. What they will notice is if you die left and right or pike the quest in someone's bag.

[karl_k0ch]

i am just thinking of an roque19, monk1.

Without much Str, your main portion of DPS will come from Sneak Attack Damage. And you will deal less damage than Str-based rogues.
Without the capstone, you miss 4D6 extra SA damage.

Bear with me for a moment to figure out what that means.
A level 19 Assassin III (non-halfling) with all enhancements and Tharnes will deal 13D6 + 20 SA damage.
So the SA damage without the capstone is 65.5, and the capstone adds 14 to that, i.e. it grants a SA boost of about 21%. Even if only half of your DPS consists of SA damage, this is still a 10% boost in DPS which you give up when you are not going pure.

[Bodic]

the only stats a rogue can 8 out is Wis and Cha, because they have the ability to make up for the low stat.

Do you want POWER ATTACK you must start with a stat that will base you to at least 13. given that its your last feat taken usually as a rog you have time to eat tomes but a 5/DR is fair and common in game so a +5 str score is needed to break the DR.
My DEX rogue sits on a 30+ str I started with a base 16 str and 18 dex 16base+2tome+2ship+7stat+3exc (+TITAN,YUGO, RAGE,& STORE) Madstone not included them boots have evaded me thru 2 lives the first being from content release.

EDIT: what good is 1 monk lvl nothing your lose is to great for your gain. if you go to 18 on a Rogue you must stay pure or accept your gimpness for lack of SA dice and a free +1 to several DC's

[Asketes]

is taking 1 level of something else worth losing the 4d6 SA capstone?

[Battlehawke]

I can tell you that I have quite a few rogues (Hurtlocker 13 rogue/6 pal/1 mnk, Berzerker 6/Acrobat 13/Ftr 1, Pure Assassin str build lvl 20, a Kensai 18/2 Rogue, and a Survivor 12 Acrobat/6 Defender Ftr/2 Pally) and that for almost 4 years my Finesse Halfling Pure Acrobat was one of my funnest toons. I put everything into Dex with some Con and Intel and minimized the rest. She NEVER missed with over a 40 Dex, but with a 18 Maxed out Strength she did very little damage when she wasn't getting sneak damage. I hated giving up the Acrobat Stuff, but honestly, now ALL my rogues are Str builds to some degree and They are Much more fun.....

[Original]

i am just thinking of an roque19, monk1.
there are probably already builds out there that do the same, but id like to think its my own build.
putting a lot into wisdom and dex. alowing decent stunning fist dc. with fists and greater 2 weapon fighting it shouldn't be that bad...

i haven't looked everything up yet. or written it down on paper, but if its like the point buy of my clronk (97 ac, with not optimal gear) my roque idea shouldnt be an glass cannon anymore heh? .

well its just an thought.

19 level roque = 10d6 sneak attack? hmm, 1/2 elf with dilligette would get the capstone xD. but lost fists...

fists arent that far off with khopeshes at an certain point. i am only looking some stuff up, and asking some questions whenever i have them on the forrum .

1 level of monk your stunning fist maybe able to stun kobolds in the harbor. You can't use fists with 1 level of monk and expect to compete at any level... my halfling thrower will out dps you.
Fists arent that far off with khopeshes at an cetrain point? Would like to see those numbers.

[Asketes]

taking a lvl of monk is a waste of your time. if you want a monk, make a monk. if you want a DPS rogue, make a rogue.

enjoy your d6 fists