Rogue1/Ranger11/Bard8 AA Spellsinger

[ShadowFlash]

First of all, this build is for my girlfriend who loves being an AA. We primarily Duo everything. My Build will turn out to be a Dwraven Cleric17/Monk2/Fighter1 TWF Dwarven Axes with Radiant Servant. When we group, we do so with a pure DPSer ( my son ) or guildies. I know all the controversy on Battle-Clerics and Arcane Archers, but we've played to level 12 now and we love the playstyle. When we do group, we like to bring something useful to the party as a whole.

The greatest complaint I've seen about AA's is they don't ever put there bow away. I can understand this from a mathematical point of view and some grouping situation, but peimarily when duoing I prefer her with the bow covering me up front doing the swinging. Just my personal playstyle opinion, I know the numbers show differently. We also don't like the dramatic change in playstyle when switching from the bow to TWFing. With the bow, she's jumping all over the place hanging back, and getting a good bead on targets. Once she's got a good tunnel...poof...manyshot 'em, then find a new position or cover me cleaning up the stragglers. Switching to TWFing, she'de be forced to charge into the fray for 100 secs, then re-establish her line to manyshot again. I jusy don't see this as all that practical in our playstyle.

Right now she's Rogue1/Ranger11 and we see no reason to continue with ranger. We plan on greater reincarnating into a 32-point build to optomize some mistakes made along the way, and set everything up for the run to 20. With the 1 rogue level and a decent intelligence, she should have the skill points to keep UMD,Disable Device,Open Lock, Search, Spot, and intelligence all pretty close to Maxed. I know end-game elite content her trap skills most likely will no where near cut-it, but for duoing on normal we should be fine. We'll never be able to use fascinate, so a low perform skill should be fine.

Here's the build I've worked out, and then we'll get to my questions....

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Spiritadrft 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Elf Female
(1 Rogue \ 11 Ranger \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 264
Spell Points: 684 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 21
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            16                    22
Constitution         12                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma             10                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    10
Bluff                 0                     2
Concentration         3                    27
Diplomacy             4                     6
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle                0                     2
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  3                     6
Intimidate            0                     2
Jump                  6                     7
Listen                2                     5
Move Silently         3                     6
Open Lock             7                    26
Perform               n/a                   7
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  6                    26
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                7                    10
Use Magic Device      4                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 5 (Ranger)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 11 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II


Level 14 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (2): Heroism
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

I hope that worked right....1st time posting outa the character creator

The reason for taking the Bard levels early is for spell slection. We need to be able to select cure light and cure moderate from the bard list or it won't allow the selections once rangers get them for free. I can't afford to waste the precious few ranger slots for healing, when the buffs are more important. There is plenty of room for the heals in the bard list though, while still maintaining the most useful Bard buffs.

Right now we're reincarnating back to lvl 12, so anything before that dosen't really matter. The HUGE problem with doing it this way is it pushes back Improved Precise Shot until lvl 16, which sucks big time. By lvl 18 her spellsinger song will be nice for mana reduction on both of us throwing out both cleric and bard buffs. Her Inspire Courage song will be OK and still useful, but not great. We have a pure mellee warchanter in the guild, but are short on healers. The warchanter's Inspire Courage will obviously be waayyy better when he's in our party, but the spellsong will benifit both of us and any casters even when he's there. Our Warchanter guildie also has zero healing specs, so I don't see much wasted overlap even running with him. She should be able to spot heal as needed with spells, scrolls, and wands....i.e. pick a DPSer and keep him upright, while I handle the groups.

This should give her plenty to do in between manyshots by spot healing, buffing, and signing a song without losing good position for switching back to the bow. Not to mention, she still has the full TWF line from ranger and the racial boosts to rapiers from elf.

We like everything about the build except pushing back Precise Shot, so the question is, should we just continue to lvl 16 as-is and reincarnate then ( everything evens out by then ) or should we do it now, and gain the advantage of trap skills ( which she lacks presently ), better buffs, spot healing, and a usable UMD.

Sorry for the essay...I wanted to be thorough. So many times I see playstyle and who you group with regularily ignored in builds. We're built primarily to Duo, but I still think we bring enough to the party.

Opinions, Critiques, even "you're nuts" comments welcome.

Thanks

[unbongwah]

Stats: why so much WIS & CHA? Yes, I know they're the casting stats for rgrs & bards, but you're better off putting them into CON, STR, maybe DEX and relying on +WIS & +CHA items instead. It's definitely better than spreading your lvl-up pts into 3(!) diff. stats.

Feats: FYI, one advantage to taking bard on an AA is you no longer need MT as a feat. That lets you take another meta like, say, Maximize; or a melee DPS feat like Power Atk.

Healing: don't forget that the power of your heals is tied to your caster lvl. A lvl 8 bard only tosses out 3d6+6+8 CSWs (plus metas & enhs); that's hardly enough to be worth bothering with at late game, IMHO, esp. given her low SPs. If anything I'd skip healing entirely; or rely on wands & scrolls instead (w/bard Mastery enhs of course).

[ShadowFlash]

actually...just put wisdom to 14 right off the bat, it was cheap enough, and nonever anything to worry abou, but you're right, the +2 Supreme tome takes effect at lvl 7, so i could short some point there. I put CHA at 11 in the builder counting on the tome boost to take me to the needed 13 for bard spells. the extra +1 CHA came from enhancements just to round it out to an even 14. I'll short WIS 3 points and make it up with the tome also and put the points elsewhere. Unfortunately all the other needed stats take 2 to level up 1, o i might as well take 12 wisdom to start, put one lvl up stat in con to round it off, and the rest in DEX more than likely. Chances are seh'll have a +7 Dex item or a "^ and +1 exceptional to round that off.

As far as healing and spell pool. This is without items which should boost it up nicely, and all she really does most of the time is buff I think she'll be OK. I know the healing spells aren't much, they are basically there to top off so I (cleric) don't have to. I haven't done the math, but with bard song magic III, and a devotion item I think it'd still be useful for her own self healing. Being an AA she is almost always out of range of my Radiant Bursts, so something is better than nothing. If she has to seriously heal others, then yes, scrolls and wands are the way to go. She has the UMD to do that just for that reason ( and stoneskin ). there really isn't any other bard buffs at those level i would take anyhow to replace the healing ones.

Nice call on no need for Mental Toughness. I don't know that maximize would be all that useful, but pumping up the dex some more by shorting WIS a bit may make power attack viable for her bow. Thanks for that one.

I don't really like counting on items to make my min spell casting levels cause we switch gear alot depending on if we Duo or group. The items IMO are more useful for boosting the SP pool.

Any other suggestions ? She is built as a support character, but still has a bunch of options with full TWF and full AA. Jack-of-all-trades- master of none I know, but it is needed when Duoing. We're just looking to bring more to the table when we group. Spellsinger was chosen simply because we're both casting a ton of buffs all the time and even the little 10% reduction helps

Thanks

[Qindark]

Nice call on no need for Mental Toughness. I don't know that maximize would be all that useful, but pumping up the dex some more by shorting WIS a bit may make power attack viable for her bow. Thanks for that one.


Thanks

I might be wrong here, but I don't think power attack works with ranged weapons.

[jwdaniels]

I might be wrong here, but I don't think power attack works with ranged weapons.

Power attack is definitely melee only.

[wolfy42]

You don't really need the bard levels till your ready to start using AA seriously (worth getting IPS first by far).

I'd go with 1 rogue to start, then straight up to 11 ranger after that. Don't worry about the heal spells the ranger levels let you use all wands anyway..and your UMD will let you use scrolls later on. Backup healing will be best with wands/scrolls for her character pretty much throughout the game. Use her mana for buffs...so you (the cleric) can have extra mana for healing when needed.

Power attack does not work with bow attacks....so only take it for TWF fighting if at all. There are plenty of other options you can take feat wise. If you do decide to wait for lvl 13 to take any bard levels you might want to snag mental toughness early on to qualify for AA...and then switch it out for something else later (could even hold off till then on getting toughness...and switch mental toughness for toughness at 13).

Manyshots usefulness is based on your BAB btw....which is another reason to get the ranger levels ASAP.....your losing out on 1 bab for the rogue level and 2 for the bard levels. You'll still reach the required 16 BAB for full manyshot...but won't get it till lvl 19...which hurts a bit (divine power clickies can help with that though).

I'd also at least pump strength up to 16 base......you don't need as many points in cha/wis etc......you also don't really need a 16 base dex (ranger levels qualify you for all the dex requirements anyway and you'll be able to hit everything just fine with your buffs etc) but since your an elf dropping it to 14 won't be that useful..so leaving it at 16 is fine. I'd say drop your wisdom 2 and your cha 2 and pump strength to 16. With tomes you could get by using owls/eagles clickies to buff up and not even need +wis/cha items (don't even need the tomes early on).

I suggest you go with 16 base strength and put ALL level up stats into strength as well. This will add significantly to your long term DPS. Dex between ranger bonuses and elf bonuses will be fine. High strength will give her more twf versatility late game...while still helping your AA damage output just about as much as dex would.

[ShadowFlash]

nope...already tried it that way...no where near enough AP to take all the DEX enhancements. We're already lvl 12 doing just what you said...1rogue/then 11 ranger. Looking at reincarnating into a more efficients end build. We would NEVER want to waste ranger spell slots on cures, but we have room for them in the bard slots, which means we need at least 4 lvls of bard before we reach lvl 8 ranger or we won't be able to chose them as bard.

We can however, continue playing as is for the next 4 lvls to 16, then reincarnate....we would be using imp precise shot now, and at lvl 16 re-incarnating we'de still have ranger 11 goodness with the earlier bard levels for better spell and enhancement progression.

The main problem is, when we first started, we DIDN'T take rogue first....HUGE mistake obviously. Which means as of now, she has near useless UMD, decent lock skills, and ZERO trap skills. So doing it now means we gain more buffs, good trap skills for our level and OK UMD. AA imbues and such are the same...we gain about 5 buffs and some self healing power. The ONLY downside is pushing back imp precise shot to 16. My fear is that if we don't do it now, we won't be able to enjoy our trap skills and self healing, because by lvl 16 content is starting to get tougher and her ability to disable will lessen on harder difficulties.

I know Imp. Precise Shot is the holy grail for an AA. It comes down to can we survive the Lordsmarch Chain ( extend with the p2p ) and Gianthold without it with all the extra skills and buffs gained.

As far as the extra feat we now have, any suggestions ? She rarely melees...more of an emergency thing with her, so something for bow would be nice....perhaps shot on the run ?

[ShadowFlash]

alrighty....re-combobulated with some of your suggestions. I used the free feat from mental toughness to add Imp Crit. Piercing for TWF rapiers as elves get bonuses there anyhow. Incedentaly, by doing that I had to take the more expensive (SP wise) Empower Spell as opposed to the Empower Healing Spell to qualify for spellsinger. shorted some stats in the begining a little as suggested, although probablly not as much as you guys would have wanted. I still wound up with an odd stat increase at the end, so I just evened out my one odd stat.

Here's the new rendition....please critique, this costs alot of real life moola to do ( buying both 32-point build and the Greater ReIncarnation ) so I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

spiritadrft 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Elf Female
(1 Rogue \ 11 Ranger \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 244
Spell Points: 559 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 20
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             15                 20                   20
Dexterity            16                 18                   20
Constitution         12                 14                   14
Intelligence         14                 16                   16
Wisdom               12                 14                   14
Charisma             10                 13                   14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                  9                    9
Bluff                 0                  2                    2
Concentration         3                 23                   27
Diplomacy             0                  2                    2
Disable Device        6                 26                   26
Haggle                0                  2                    2
Heal                  1                  2                    2
Hide                  3                  5                    5
Intimidate            0                  2                    2
Jump                  7                  9                    9
Listen                1                  2                    4
Move Silently         3                  5                    5
Open Lock             7                 25                   25
Perform               n/a                7                    7
Repair                2                  3                    3
Search                6                 24                   26
Spot                  5                 24                   26
Swim                  7                  9                    9
Tumble                7                  9                    9
Use Magic Device      4                 25                   27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 5 (Ranger)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 11 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Heroism
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II


Level 13 (Ranger)
Spell (2): Barkskin
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Spell (2): Hold Animal
Spell (2): Mass Camouflage
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Protection From Energy
Spell (2): Snare
Spell (2): Spike Growth
Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 14 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Spell (3): Neutralize Poison
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III
Spell (3): Wild Instincts


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

Thanks for your help so far....I appreciate the constructive replies

[ShadowFlash]

Just an update to the build. We didn't wait for level 12, and GR'ed at lvl 11. We play slow and have fun, so we're no level 13, and her split is 1 Rogue/9 Ranger/3 Bard. I did change up the skill points a bit to add some to perform for fascinate. Starting Stats worked out to be...

STR 15
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 10

Sitting at Lvl 13 ( with a +2 Supreme Tome, +1 Bard CHA, +1 Elven DEX, and +1 Ranger DEX )

STR 19
DEX 20
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 13

If I had to do it again, I would probably drop WIS down to 8 to start and bump CON to 14 for an extra 20HP@20. I don't regret the 2 points in CHA as there was nothing to balance out and it boosts UMD and Perform. Pushing back Imp. Precise Shot does hurt, but I still stand by the progression to maximize her limited spell slots for Cure Light,Moderate, and Serious in the Bard Slots instead of Ranger Slots.

Self-healing ( other than wands ) is still pretty much non-existent, but there have been a few times when she's bailed me outa a jam. Currently She's wearing the Wrath of Sora Kell Set which is perfect for this build. Level 15 is when she'll get her Cure Moderate ( as a Bard spell ) and Song Magic II, which along with the set bonus should give her basic SP self-healing. She's also taking Emp. Spell for her cure's ( pre-req for spellsinger, otherwise she'd just take Emp. Heal )

SP pool is quite nice @300ish right now( not including shrine item ). Plenty to throw out Extended Resist's (20) and Barkskin's (+4) for all, and still self-buff Ram's Might, Focusing Chant, and Expeditious Retreat. There's been alot of hoopla right or wrong on Extend and U9, but this build absolutely NEEDS it for the short duration bard buffs, which with only 8 bard levels when done will be short indeed.

UMD's primary use right now is for Stone Skin Wands...which is nice. Currently wearing the Golden Cartouche to help out with that. She could be scrolling haste, but the duration is so short, we don't bother.

One of the big changes when we GR'ed her, was the addition of trap skills...honestly so far, we haven't had the need to disable in most of the quests we've run. Hoping it comes in handy in the future. Locks of course are never a problem.

Bard Inspire Courage ( 3/day ) is at +2 for Attack and Damage, and will be stuck there for a while. With a full bard or warchanter in the party not much use, but fascinate can still be used with a decent DC. All-in-all it definately still helps most of the time. Anxious for more uses per day though.

To-Hit has not been a problem with the Sora-Kell set-bonus along with Wind Howlers. She finally has BAB 11 again for 3 arrow manyshots which makes her less dependent on her DP clickies.

I'll be updating this as we slowly progress more for my benefit on progression difficulties. We're currently milking the Lordsmarch Series and the Desert for all it's worth. We duo'd Desert Caravan on Hard ( when we were lvl 12 ) without much issue, but on Elite, we get the End chests to appear and a completion, but just can't seem to wrap up the mob before they take out the last caravan and boot us out. We could just talk to the guy at the completed message and call it a finish, but that's not how we're built...gotta clean up every last critter before we call it a success...lol

Thing's to look forward to for this build progression...

Next Level ( Ranger 10 ) FE Giants, so we can start Gianthold and 1 more Ranger Lvl 2 Spell Slot, Imbue +3 Arrows, and Imbue Explosive Arrows.

Level 15 ( Bard 4 ) Cure Moderate + Song Magic II, and Empower Spell Feat for self-SP healing, and one more Bard Lvl 2 Spell Slot ( rage more than likely )

Level 16 ( Ranger 11 ) Final Ranger Level for this build. At long last, Imp Precise Shot, GTWF, and 1 lone Lvl 3 Ranger Spell Slot. Also, with DP clickies, Manyshot goes to 4 arrows.

That's it for now...A unique jack-of-all build to be sure, but we enjoy it and she plays it well. We've had no complaints so far on her performance and she keeps up on kills just fine along with bringing a lot of missing-man type utilities to our groups.

Comments Welcome

ShadowFlash & Spiritadrft on Orien

[ShadowFlash]

She's one dot away from our much anticipated level 16 now, so we figured it's about time to take down some more notes and impressions.

On a general note, when we began we viewed this build as more of "flavor" then anything else, but the more she plays it, the more we love it. Maybe it's just our playstyle, but I don't think there is anything I'de change so far. We grow more confident each level at this being a very nice level 20 endgame build. More importantly, it has been a blast to play, and each level seems to get a new "toy" to play with. The best part about PUG groups is being able to answer almost any "Can anyone do ____ ?" with spirit can do it, until finally someone asks if there is anything she can't do :P

Level-by-Level impressions updated...

Level 14:
Started GH as planned with FE Giants. Level 2 Ranger Spells: Barkskin and Protection from Energy ( although the summon as a short term decoy is nice when duoing ) Explosive Arrows are a nice addition.

Level 15:
We mixed things up a little from the plan here. We took maximize instead of empower, as her spell pool is so large, the extra SP healing oompf is better than the SP savings. We also took blur as the spell choice as pots or clickys can be used for the other choices for now. With extend, blur has such a nice cast-and-forget duration even at bard level 4 that we couldn't pass it up. The extra song per day was desperately needed, allowing her to switch stormsinger cloak and mabar cloak situationaly. Self-healing through SP is useful, not great, but it is very nice in a pinch as expected. With Potency 40% from Sora Kell, and enhancements, it is a very valuable survival tool. UMD is finally high enough for reliable stoneskin wands and the occasional icestorm wand.

Other Notes:
It was tough for her, as a 1st life, 1st time ANY video game player to catch on to the timings, walls of clickys, gear swapping, and a million other things she does at once, but I am genuinely proud of her playstyle at this point. She has learned trap disarming quite well and now does it in combat just fine. I find myself, as a battle-cleric having trouble keeping up on kills with her when duoing, and unexpectedly, she seems to out DPS me most of the time. She has also mastered the switch to TWF when off manyshot and in groups, but still prefers the bow in our duoing playstyle. Fascinate is also nice for those large mob fights.

Things to look forward to:
Level 16:
( Ranger 11 ) Final Ranger Level for this build. At long last, Imp Precise Shot, GTWF, and 1 lone Lvl 3 Ranger Spell Slot can be cure mod until bard levels catch up, Summon Lioness as a Duoing Decoy, or Wild Instincts to shore up Rogue Skills. As many have not understood, this is the reason for taking cure mod as a bard also ( even though it's weaker than the ranger version due to levels ). She can pick her summon decoy or wild instincs for trap skills and still maintain a weaker cure mod as a bard spell. This was tricky to work out in leveling progression as taking the bard version before access to it via ranger is essential or it's locked out of bard selection. Also, with DP clickies, Manyshot goes to 4 arrows. This is where all the early sacrifices of the build even out for the most part.

Level 17: ( Bard 5 )
Another Level 2 buff Spell...probablly rage as heroism pots are only really good for skill checks at this point and they come in 4 minute pots. Another very welcome song per day. Imbue +4 arrows, Force Burst, and Terror Arrows...Yee Haa...Wand Mastery goes up a tier.

Level 18: ( Bard 6 )
Spellsinger= +100SP, +2 Concentration and UMD, Spellsong Trance. Should be able to whip heal scrolls at this point if needed.

Level 19: ( Bard 7 )
Bard Song goes up to +3 Damage. 1 lvl 2 and 2 lvl 3 spells= Heroism, Displacement ( only 84 seconds, but good enough for one fight ) and Cure Serious. Song Magic III. BAB is now a natural 16 for manyshot decreasing the reliance on DP clickys.

Level 20: ( Bard 8 )
Bard Song at final +4 ATK/DMG. We put Haste ( 96 secs ) last on our spell picks as pots and clickys are good enough. Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Lyric of Song II, and of course Imbue +5's and Slayer Arrows.

I probablly won't update again until cap, and like I said before, this thread is more about our impressions along the way in case we want to TR and do it all over again.