Why are Rapiers good on a rogue?

[stille_nacht]

New character coming up, and i like the idea of being a sneaky assassin.

So, naturally, he first thing i think about is leh equipment and build. I have the build down, but i dont really know what to use for rogue. Now i have been told rapiers are the weapon for rogues, but i dont know why... do rogues get special enhancements or something?

[Shyver]

Radiance shroud weapons blind on crit. Blind mob is free sneak attacks, so blind mob is dead mob. Rapiers crit on a 15-20 with imp. crit. That's the quick and easy answer.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Highest-damage finesse weapon in the game, 15-20 crit range with Improved Critical, Radiance.

[Rodasch]

They're just the best weapon already in a rogue's toolbox. Rogues get proficiency in rapiers as a class but not scimitars (and certainly not khopeshes) unless they burn feats.

There are perks for a rapier on a dex rogue build too (since it's finessable). Str based assassins often opt to burn the feat for khopesh if they can find room, otherwise, rapier is your go-to hogsplitter.

[stille_nacht]

Radiance shroud weapons blind on crit. Blind mob is free sneak attacks, so blind mob is dead mob. Rapiers crit on a 15-20 with imp. crit. That's the quick and easy answer.

Ah, i see.

What are the benefits of a dexterity based build? the standard 5 or so damage for 5 or so Dex save/open lock?

[Quarterling]

Ah, i see.

What are the benefits of a dexterity based build? the standard 5 or so damage for 5 or so Dex save/open lock?

Benefits of dex-based bulid:

1. Higher AC (though it becomes useless in the long run at end-game)
2. Higher reflex (doesn't matter much though because your reflex is already pretty good, especially with improved evasion)
3. Higher dex-based skills

That's pretty much it. I used to have a dex-based but found str-based more useful at end-game. Also, I was able to substitute my weapon finesse feat for something else which really helps because rogues are feat-starved.

Some people will tell you rapiers are useless and to go khopeshes because of x3 crit multiplier. Instead of listening to them and burning an extra feat on exotic weapon proficiency, get yourself some nice heavy picks for auto-crit situations which will happen often in epics.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Ah, i see.

What are the benefits of a dexterity based build? the standard 5 or so damage for 5 or so Dex save/open lock?

Reduced MAD, mostly.

[stille_nacht]

Benefits of dex-based bulid:

1. Higher AC (though it becomes useless in the long run at end-game)
2. Higher reflex (doesn't matter much though because your reflex is already pretty good, especially with improved evasion)
3. Higher dex-based skills

That's pretty much it. I used to have a dex-based but found str-based more useful at end-game. Also, I was able to substitute my weapon finesse feat for something else which really helps because rogues are feat-starved.

Some people will tell you rapiers are useless and to go khopeshes because of x3 crit multiplier. Instead of listening to them and burning an extra feat on exotic weapon proficiency, get yourself some nice heavy picks for auto-crit situations which will happen often in epics.

Well, being a super nerd, i am familiar with the math that says khopeshes are better :P, ill go rapier if i cant fit a feat into the build im typing up on the side here, but if i can, i definitely will. Heavy picks do significantly less on non-held mobs, and against held mobs well.... honestly i think autocrit damage shouldnt be something to worry about, if it's held by a decent wizard, its dying fast either way. If it's not... questfailure.

[Musouka]

Some people will tell you rapiers are useless and to go khopeshes because of x3 crit multiplier. Instead of listening to them and burning an extra feat on exotic weapon proficiency, get yourself some nice heavy picks for auto-crit situations which will happen often in epics.

Are you saying stick with rapiers and get heavy picks for autocrit? Also does a rogue get Heavy Pick proficiency, and would it matter?

[Rodasch]

Are you saying stick with rapiers and get heavy picks for autocrit? Also does a rogue get Heavy Pick proficiency, and would it matter?

That's what he's saying, yes. And proficiency does not matter in auto-crit situations, you hit on everything but a 1 and every hit is a crit...whether you're proficient or not. (rogues don't get heavy pick proficiency, btw)

[Miahoo]

Ah, i see.

What are the benefits of a dexterity based build? the standard 5 or so damage for 5 or so Dex save/open lock?

My Fevo guide: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=295321
Though, I personally don't follow it step-by-step. But the explanation is great!

[Bodic]

Rapier has the best crit range of all finesse weapons and is a class feat for Rogue. you would have to scroll or feat the majority of marshal weapons.

with a large amount of damages on crit a 25% chance is better than a 20%

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Benefits of dex-based bulid:

1. Higher AC (though it becomes useless in the long run at end-game)
2. Higher reflex (doesn't matter much though because your reflex is already pretty good, especially with improved evasion)
3. Higher dex-based skills

That's pretty much it. I used to have a dex-based but found str-based more useful at end-game. Also, I was able to substitute my weapon finesse feat for something else which really helps because rogues are feat-starved.

Some people will tell you rapiers are useless and to go khopeshes because of x3 crit multiplier. Instead of listening to them and burning an extra feat on exotic weapon proficiency, get yourself some nice heavy picks for auto-crit situations which will happen often in epics.

Add higher "to-hit" bonus

[Miahoo]

with a large amount of damages on crit a 25% chance is better than a 20%

u mean 30%

[Miahoo]

Add higher "to-hit" bonus

Thats not accurate.
With buffs, u'll get more STR than DEX.
And STR is added to your dmg too, rather than to-hit only as finesse.

[Illiain]

Are you saying stick with rapiers and get heavy picks for autocrit? Also does a rogue get Heavy Pick proficiency, and would it matter?

You can buy scrolls of Master's Touch in the Portable Hole. These give you proficiency in martial weapons until you rest at a shrine. (or possibly die, but it's still a long duration)

Also some races, elves/drow, get racial bonuses to rapiers. They give up 20-40hps (or more depending on racial bonuses to Con/Toughness) for a +2 bonus to hit and damage with rapiers. This bonus, even as small as it is, helps lower the gap between rapier and khopesh.

[Artos_Fabril]

You can buy scrolls of Master's Touch in the Portable Hole. These give you proficiency in martial weapons until you rest at a shrine. (or possibly die, but it's still a long duration)

Correction: Master's touch now gives proficiency in the equipped martial weapon(s) (or shield) until the next shrine. This means when casting from a scroll, the weapon you want proficiency in has to be in the offhand. So if you need to be proficient in your heavy picks, you need to equip each one in the off hand at the start of the quest and each rest shrine you use. Scroll MT, then switch weapons. It's kind of a hassle, but not really a big deal.

[Jaid314]

Correction: Master's touch now gives proficiency in the equipped martial weapon(s) (or shield) until the next shrine. This means when casting from a scroll, the weapon you want proficiency in has to be in the offhand. So if you need to be proficient in your heavy picks, you need to equip each one in the off hand at the start of the quest and each rest shrine you use. Scroll MT, then switch weapons. It's kind of a hassle, but not really a big deal.

actually, you can make a weapon set with a scroll in the main hand (say, master's touch) and a weapon in the off hand if you want. but only one-handed weapons (it would be nice if that worked for two-handers though)

[Bodic]

u mean 30%

My math must be a little off here sry I counted the 15 as a non crit oops so 14 of 20 is 7/10 or 70% so 30% crit

to MT a 2hander give scroll to bard/wiz/sorc or any other UMDist in party to cast on u

[Quarterling]

Add higher "to-hit" bonus

I was thinking about that, and it most certainly is true early on in the game, but if a rogue tries, they can get some pretty good strength with items/buffs/etc, even if the character is a halfling. I think a higher to-hit would count as a benefit for a newer player, since a vet would know how to efficiently raise their strength score to the maximum potential.